JonBenet toxic gossip was in itself a true crime

W e were all so sure . Weren't we? We were certain. It was a slam dunk. We knew.

[booksdates]

So who did it? Forget about the fact that the late mother was obsessed with this little girl being in show biz. I believe she went to her grave knowing along with her husband who murdered the child. So at the very least they are accessories to the crime. Still want to know where that goof ball Carr is.

[Kimberly]

I am sorry, I cannot believe 100% that touch - DNA rules out the family. That poor child lived in and out of dressing rooms, changing, getting dressed, and changing again. Clothes are not washed after every performance. Most times, not after two performances. So undergarments, and clothes would be affected by anyone that was backstage. So in my opinion, to rule out ANYONE 100% is absurd, and yet another idiotic decision by Boulder authorities.

[Obe]

Kimberly wrote:

I am sorry, I cannot believe 100% that touch - DNA rules out the family. That poor child lived in and out of dressing rooms, changing, getting dressed, and changing again. Clothes are not washed after every performance. Most times, not after two performances. So undergarments, and clothes would be affected by anyone that was backstage. So in my opinion, to rule out ANYONE 100% is absurd, and yet another idiotic decision by Boulder authorities.

I seriously doubt, Jonbenet wore long john underwear under her pageant dresses and costumes.

[Kelcie]

Much has been said about JonBenét's involvement in pageants and how it was deemed excessive by the public. Over two years, she participated in nine pageants. For someone who has never done a pageant before, that sounds like a lot, but I can tell you that for a pageant girl, it's a low number. Patsy Ramsey was supportive of what her daughter was born to love--not pushy. Pushy are those moms who drag their kids, whining and crying, to pageants every weekend. JonBenét also loved gymnastics, had taken violin lessons (which she dropped when she lost interest, no pressure) and was slated for rock climbing lessons soon. Since the pageant videos were what was available to the public, that was what the media went nuts over and that's all we saw. That's not all of a little girl--rather, it's a small part of what her life was.

(As for the doubt of the validity of the new DNA evidence because of the cleanliness of her clothes, she was in long johns and a white long-sleeved shirt with a sequined star on the front when she was killed--hardly pageant material.) What this story didn't mention was that this DNA found on the outside of and the waistband of her longjohns also matches the DNA found inside the crotch of her panties as well as small amounts of DNA mixed in with her own under her fingernails and is the DNA of a male, identity yet to be found but that which has excluded any member of her family.

[brandy]

The crime scene became so contaminated could the touch evidence have been from one of the people in the home when she was found & carried upstairs?
The empty tea glass & bowl of pineapple on the table is the biggest mystery to me.
The fruit was found in her stomach & yet Patsy denied ever putting the fruit out. Would a stranger entertain his victim to that extent while her parents were asleep in the house?
I stll can't get past the vision of 2 children sneaking downstairs in the middle of the night for a snack. Seems logical if she were hungry she would go to her big brother who was on the same floor rather than wake her parents who would most likely make her go back to bed.
Yes I always believed the Ramseys knew who it was & thats what bonded them together during all they went through. I also remember John Ramsey calmly saying Carr was not the killer. How was he so sure?

[Grumpyoldlady]

All the flapdoodle reminds me of the Sheppard murder back in the 50s. Both the authorities and the public dismissed Dr. Sam's story as "far-fetched" and rushed to judgment based largely on personal dislike. Even though there was no DNA analysis back then, there was probably plenty of other evidence that wasn't examined. The guy the DNA came back to was a career criminal who went on to commit a number of similar crimes before he was caught. Same deal here - somewhere out there is a murdering pedophile who has been doing his thing scot-free all these years.

[Ali]

What really irks me about the whole thing is that the craziness and hype of this case allowed the actual killer to get away, and perhaps find new victims, reestablish his life somewhere else, and just generally make it impossible for local authorities to ever solve the case.

[Ashland Avenue]

Speak for yourself, Ms. Keller. I don't want to sound holier-than-thou, and God knows I've made enough mistakes to last a lifetime, but no, I never thought either Mr. or Mrs. Ramsey was involved.

The amount of violence done to poor little JonBenet was extreme. Psychologically speaking, I just couldn't see a parent doing that without a) a history of escalating violence; and b) severe (obvious) mental illness. According to many published accounts, the Ramseys had neither. It seems that when otherwise ordinary parents "snap," it ends up with shaken-baby syndrome, or perhaps one killing blow. Something fast that happens in a moment - not the intimate and prolonged violence that occurred with JonBenet. I just couldn't see this set of parents doing that. Something quick and accidental, yes, but not this. It just didn't add up.

[Kelcie]

brandy wrote:

The crime scene became so contaminated could the touch evidence have been from one of the people in the home when she was found & carried upstairs?
The empty tea glass & bowl of pineapple on the table is the biggest mystery to me.
The fruit was found in her stomach & yet Patsy denied ever putting the fruit out. Would a stranger entertain his victim to that extent while her parents were asleep in the house?
I stll can't get past the vision of 2 children sneaking downstairs in the middle of the night for a snack. Seems logical if she were hungry she would go to her big brother who was on the same floor rather than wake her parents who would most likely make her go back to bed.
Yes I always believed the Ramseys knew who it was & thats what bonded them together during all they went through. I also remember John Ramsey calmly saying Carr was not the killer. How was he so sure?

Those are good questions.

I believe the touch evidence is viable because areas that would be used to dress a child (her waistband around her hips, for example) were tested, and that matched what was inside the crotch of her panties, mixed with her blood. If it was just on the outside of her long johns and that was it, then maybe you wouldn't have a case. That, however, was only the tip of the iceberg.

As for the pineapple (or what was described in the autopsy report as a substance similar to pineapple but MAY NOT HAVE BEEN), there was a bowl of pineapple found out on the counter with the fingerprints of Patsy and Burke on it. Patsy would have unloaded that bowl from the dishwasher and put it away, which explains her fingerprints even if she didn't get that pineapple out to eat for the kids that day. Burke may have gotten it out for an afternoon snack; I know when I was nine years old I was feeding myself when I got hungry, there's no reason he couldn't have done that. Unfortunately, that was eleven and a half years ago and goodness knows he probably doesn't remember anymore. I never heard that he was questioned about that at all when he could have remembered.

As for when the pineapple was eaten...I don't know where all this malarkey about "she ate it right before she died" is coming from. It was in her small intestine, which is a ways down the digestion line. If you have kids, you've most likely seen them through a stomach virus or two, and they'll puke up dinners they ate hours and hours beforehand, from the stomach.(Normal vomiting doesn't come from the small intestine.) Personally, I know I've been carsick and puked up things I didn't even remember eating.(Sorry, that is rather gross, but for the purpose of this discussion, an example!) So I don't think it's unreasonable to think that JonBenét ate this pineapple-like substance before she went over to the Whites' for a Christmas dinner.

[Kelcie]

My apologies Brandy, I missed addressing the last part of your question.

Did John Ramsey say that before or after the DNA evidence was found to not match Karr?

Personally, from the start, I knew that John Mark Karr did not kill JonBenét Ramsey, and I didn't understand why it seemed that everyone else thought he may have. Anyone who says that he killed her and that "it was an accident" is clearly full of it--in no way was this brutal strangling, stun gunning, sexual assault, and bashed in skull an accident.

[hokey]

It wasn't gossip that cast the family as likely murderers, it was the Boulder police and district attorney who continually leaked damaging innuendo and outright lies. The police woman on the scene saying she was afraid for herself when she saw the look in Mr. Ramsey's eyes upon discovering his daughter, that the mother could not be ruled out as writing the letter, that they were under an umbrella of suspicion. That they took many months to rule out the 9-year-old sibling as a suspect. The police and DA all but said "they did it!"

This is not a problem of gossip, but of incompentent or malevolent government officials and a gullible local media that did little to get to the real truth, possibly both blinded by some kind of class envy or hatred or some other prejudice.

[Mame]

Kelcie wrote:

My apologies Brandy, I missed addressing the last part of your question.
Did John Ramsey say that before or after the DNA evidence was found to not match Karr?
Personally, from the start, I knew that John Mark Karr did not kill JonBenét Ramsey, and I didn't understand why it seemed that everyone else thought he may have. Anyone who says that he killed her and that "it was an accident" is clearly full of it--in no way was this brutal strangling, stun gunning, sexual assault, and bashed in skull an accident.

He said it after. Prior to the news his DNA did not match John was very fair minded...and said we shouldn't jump to conclusions until all the facts are in...

Not sure what's odd about that?

[Mame]

hokey wrote:

It wasn't gossip that cast the family as likely murderers, it was the Boulder police and district attorney who continually leaked damaging innuendo and outright lies. The police woman on the scene saying she was afraid for herself when she saw the look in Mr. Ramsey's eyes upon discovering his daughter, that the mother could not be ruled out as writing the letter, that they were under an umbrella of suspicion. That they took many months to rule out the 9-year-old sibling as a suspect. The police and DA all but said "they did it!"
This is not a problem of gossip, but of incompentent or malevolent government officials and a gullible local media that did little to get to the real truth, possibly both blinded by some kind of class envy or hatred or some other prejudice.

In my opinion the local media was far more responsible than the national media. This case was a tabloid money machine...and Pew Research did a study on how many times this story was featured in prime time shows...if I recall it was hundreds of times.

Yes, public officials acted improperly from day one...and leaked almost every piece of evidence...but, the tabloids had money on the Patsy-did-it theory!

[Mame]

Correction...
My statement above about the local media was written incorrectly...

This is what I meant...

The local media acted far more responsibly...

[johnny wishbone]

Parents turning a child into a hooker. Should have shipped her to Costa Rica or Thailand! More of those stupid self serving pageants.

[sunshine]

hokey wrote:

This is not a problem of gossip, but of incompentent or malevolent government officials and a gullible local media that did little to get to the real truth, possibly both blinded by some kind of class envy or hatred or some other prejudice.

You are correct, but 12 years into this investigation I believe that they are finally starting to get it right. The Prosecutor made a statement last week, and that statement is that they know who committed this crime. They didn't just eliminate the parents last week based on new DNA evidence alone. They know something more, a lot more and I believe that this was their first step before arresting this individual,to clear the parents. And in clearing the parents they have narrowed down their pool of suspects eliminating the Immediate Family. They have already issued an apology so now there is no going back. This move to the land of no-return was determined by a lot more than just new DNA evidence. We already knew before the DA's announcement that a Stranger didn't commit this crime, this was a crime committed by someone who was close to the family. So where does that leave the DA's focus? Freinds! "How many of us have them?", "Friends, the kinds we can depend on"
Friends
"Is a word we use everyday
Most the time we use it in the wrong way
Now you can look the word up, again and again
But the dictionary doesnt know the meaning of friends
And if you ask me, you know, I couldnt be much help
Because A friend is somebody you judge for yourself
Some are ok, and they treat you real cool
But some mistake kindness for bein a fool
We like to be with some, because they're funny
Others come around when they need some money
Some you grew up with, around the way
And you're still real close too this very day"
If I were this child killer "Friend" of the Ramsey's, that announcement by the DA last week, should start to cause some sleepless nights because the GOOD GUYS are starting to close in!

[Think]

The Rant-n-Rave and the Spin goes on.

There are somethings that we all know for sure,JB is dead someone murdered her. She was killed in her home with her Mom and Dad and Brother there at the time.

Someone killed her (fact)who? we all have our theories,who is right and who is wrong we don't know. Only the KILLER and the ones that helped cover it up knows for sure.(everything points to a cover up) If any of these people have a heart they have to be living in Pure HELL.

My advise to them is this,Confess and get your forgiveness and your punishment on earth.
For someone to do this to a child had to let Satan take over their soul.After death there will be no "forgiveness". THINK ABOUT IT! IMO

[Sue T]

Innocent...until proven guilty. Wow! What a concept!

[Patricia Fox]

sunshine wrote:

<quoted text>
The Prosecutor made a statement last week, and that statement is that they know who committed this crime.

What?

[over educated]

does cain and abel ring a bell......?