“Vainglourious Basterd”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#122 Nov 14, 2012
Aggie wrote:
<quoted text>I am not sure if this was aimed at me or not, if not, my apologies. If it was, where do you get the idea I was using textbooks. I gave you the titles of the books, they are not textbooks in and of themselves, though it would not surprise me if some of them could be used as resources for classes.

Kennedy - seriously? PLEASE tell me you're not a 9-11 Truther.
You might actually have to do some reading on the Kennedy subject, if you believe the official story it's only because you're totally ignorant of anything beyond it. I don't mention 9/11 here because the evidence of that conspiracy isn't nearly as iron-clad as the Kennedy story. This isn't something you can google and be an instant temporary expert like with some of your arguments.

That post was general mainly. Except the part about researchers staking careers and reputations on controversial subjects only to be discarded by you because they don't belong to a big publisher. Where is the line between credible and biased in your world exactly?

“Vainglourious Basterd”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#123 Nov 14, 2012
Aggie wrote:
<quoted text>You obviously did not read it or the supporting websites referenced. But you just keep beating your head against that stump.
I actually didn't read that particular site, and I told you that. I posted that one because it seemed to be the more general unbiased reference, not the absolute authority on the issue.

What the bottom line according to the apologetics crowd seems to be is that since you can't measure what parts are forged that the whole thing should be taken as fact. When you look at the big picture it isn't logical that he would have covered Jesus so lightly and spent so much time writing about significantly less important or relevant topics. So I guess you are free to draw whatever conclusion based on those arguments about Josephus but the fact any of it was forged makes it a flimsy argument for the existence of some deity from either perspective.
Man in Plaid

Gaffney, SC

#124 Nov 14, 2012
The moderate stance on Josephus seems to be that you may conclude that Jesus was a historical figure, but you probably shouldn't conclude that he was the Christ because the passages that proclaim this were likely forged.
LaForte Fan

Blue Ridge, GA

#125 Nov 14, 2012
I mostly want to understand the appeal of virgin births throughout history. What birth would not bust a hymen anyway so what is the point so the mother will not have been a sex object. What is the allure? What am I missing?

Lanius, that last guy on the list looks like JarJar Biggs from Star Trek. I love this debate, it has soul.

Just went to see Argus and loved it.
CountryGeekGirl

Cleveland, TN

#126 Nov 15, 2012
LaForte Fan wrote:
I mostly want to understand the appeal of virgin births throughout history. What birth would not bust a hymen anyway so what is the point so the mother will not have been a sex object. What is the allure? What am I missing?
Sex is "impure." Obviously it would taint a religious figure to be conceived by something so base as a sexual encounter. Plus, immaculate conception = majix! Gotta have the allure of a god being all-powerful! That's why they're gods, right?
LaForte Fan

Blue Ridge, GA

#127 Nov 15, 2012
CountryGeekGirl wrote:
<quoted text>
Sex is "impure." Obviously it would taint a religious figure to be conceived by something so base as a sexual encounter. Plus, immaculate conception = majix! Gotta have the allure of a god being all-powerful! That's why they're gods, right?
Our ancestors seemed to understand about semen and its connection with conception since they were always worried about spilling their seed on the ground. The only explanation I can imagine is that un-fact-based events were generally more acceptable then.

The stories in the list Lanius provided are all different but have common themes, particularly the virgin birth component (an oxymoron to me). Those guys who flew the airplanes into the Twin Towers were big on virgins,too. I don't understand that appeal either. Being surrounded by a bunch of excited girls waiting for their first visit from the tooth fairy would be torturous.

I personally have nothing against Christianity or any other belief systems, they all have different personalities like people. I just do not like fundamentalism because it turns people into angry bees.

“Vainglourious Basterd”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128 Nov 15, 2012
LaForte Fan wrote:
I mostly want to understand the appeal of virgin births throughout history. What birth would not bust a hymen anyway so what is the point so the mother will not have been a sex object. What is the allure? What am I missing?

Lanius, that last guy on the list looks like JarJar Biggs from Star Trek. I love this debate, it has soul.

Just went to see Argus and loved it.
That's "Binks" and "Wars" speaking of shameful historical figures. A dark chapter in American history that we must learn from and repent for. Disney will save us.

I hope Aggie doesn't leave. I think she's totally wrong about everything but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a strong debate, and on my favorite subject at that.
Aggie

Cartersville, GA

#129 Nov 15, 2012
LaForte Fan wrote:
I mostly want to understand the appeal of virgin births throughout history. What birth would not bust a hymen anyway so what is the point so the mother will not have been a sex object. What is the allure? What am I missing?
Lanius, that last guy on the list looks like JarJar Biggs from Star Trek. I love this debate, it has soul.
Just went to see Argus and loved it.
Actually, the emphasis in mythology is more towards "miraculous" births, meaning attempts to thwart conceptions or births failed, as opposed to an emphasis on the virginity of the mother. Greek mythology has Zeus trying to hide his affairs from his wife and so he would appear in different forms to his lovers. Also common is the motif of a future child being seen as a challenge to a ruler (or would be ruler), so the mother is kept in seclusion to prevent conception, which never worked, like the birth of Perseus.
Aggie

Cartersville, GA

#130 Nov 15, 2012
Sorry, LaForte Fan, we must have been writing at the same time. Again, that list you looked at is full of inaccuracies about the actual myths in an attempt to make them look similar to Jesus, please do not go by it. Again, all you have to do is look the mythical figures up individually and you will quickly see the differences in how the myths have always been presented in folklore as opposed to how that list describes them.

“Vainglourious Basterd”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#131 Nov 15, 2012
Aggie wrote:
Sorry, LaForte Fan, we must have been writing at the same time. Again, that list you looked at is full of inaccuracies about the actual myths in an attempt to make them look similar to Jesus, please do not go by it. Again, all you have to do is look the mythical figures up individually and you will quickly see the differences in how the myths have always been presented in folklore as opposed to how that list describes them.
Just make sure your book has the right binding and is in hard cover format so you can take it more seriously.

“Vainglourious Basterd”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#132 Nov 15, 2012
Also the virgin/miraculous birth sensation has something to do with another astrological metaphor that completely escapes me at the moment. It actually has very little to do with any person actually being conceived or born but again, I can't remember what the specific story is for the life of me.
Aggie

Cartersville, GA

#133 Nov 15, 2012
Lanius LaForte wrote:
<quoted text>
Just make sure your book has the right binding and is in hard cover format so you can take it more seriously.
Exactly, just like the ones I used.
Aggie

Cartersville, GA

#134 Nov 15, 2012
@ Lanius LaForte

I would be more than happy to debate as long as it is kept on topic. But you have a tendency when challenged to go for the ad hominem attacks that do not advance the subject - and I will admit I responded in kind. Best example, you challenged me to look at the list. I did so, and refuted them with evidence from books which I listed. What did you do? You completely ignored the facts I gave and the sources I used (yes, they were hardbacks from our personal library - I had already said I was a mythology buff and my husband has many books on other religions.) called them childrens' books with cartoons. No intellectual honesty from you there, just a baseless attack. So if you want to have a serious debate devoid of the petulance you have exhibited, fine. Keep it to the topic and I'll play.
LaForte Fan

Blue Ridge, GA

#135 Nov 15, 2012
Lanius LaForte wrote:
<quoted text>
Just make sure your book has the right binding and is in hard cover format so you can take it more seriously.
Lanius, If you want Aggie to stay, stop making churlish cracks. I like her, too, and also the Plaid Man. If she stays I promise to read real books. Maybe you guys could be speakers at the new gay and lesbian group -- that ought to make them want to be more normal. Sorry about Binks and War - I knew that but have had company all week who already thinks I am nuts talking to invisible people. I run in and out of here pretending to check the weather.

“Vainglourious Basterd”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#136 Nov 15, 2012
Aggie wrote:
@ Lanius LaForte
I would be more than happy to debate as long as it is kept on topic. But you have a tendency when challenged to go for the ad hominem attacks that do not advance the subject - and I will admit I responded in kind. Best example, you challenged me to look at the list. I did so, and refuted them with evidence from books which I listed. What did you do? You completely ignored the facts I gave and the sources I used (yes, they were hardbacks from our personal library - I had already said I was a mythology buff and my husband has many books on other religions.) called them childrens' books with cartoons. No intellectual honesty from you there, just a baseless attack. So if you want to have a serious debate devoid of the petulance you have exhibited, fine. Keep it to the topic and I'll play.
I'm guilty of giving a bit of a general response in retort to your examining of the list. It did deserve more focus on my part, I'll get to it out of respect for your argument though since you have a good point and I do have much more to say on the matter. I also didn't say you were reading children's books, that was kind of an intentionally pointed speculation in reference to some of the points you made prior to that. You never explained what made a "reputable" source valid in your mind speaking of books. Also, you've made claims here about me and my arguments and totally ignored my challenges to it. I just consider it a casualty of a very wide-ranging debate. This is why politicians have moderators.

One thing though, I don't feel like we've gone too far off-topic at all given the direction we've taken. The part of the original exchange that sparked this part of the debate was your refuting my claim of Christianity being "false". Everything we've covered here is relevant to that even as individual points to both sides.

Binks deserves to be forgotten by history, not remembering his name makes you a better Star Wars fan actually.
Aggie

Cartersville, GA

#137 Nov 15, 2012
@Lanius LaForte
I am in complete agreement with as far as JarJarr binks go. Go us.

I do wish you would comment on a question I asked earlier. You said you are not an atheist. I would presume then you are either an agnostic or possibly a Deist. If either is the case, why the objection to Intelligent Design being taught as theory just as, in my opinion, Darwinism should be taught as theory. I am NOT saying teach Creationism, which generally holds to literal 6 days of creation and the age of the Earth as being 6,000 years. ThatWOULD be teaching Christianity (and orthodox Judaism, I believe), though that is not a fundamentalist belief I ascribe to.
Aggie

Cartersville, GA

#138 Nov 15, 2012
Okay, I completely blew that first sentence.

I am in complete agreement with you as far as JarJarr Binks goes.
Aggie

Monticello, GA

#139 Nov 15, 2012
And to further clarify, I would be absolutely fine with the criticisms of Intelligent Design being included with any curriculum, just as I contend criticisms of evolution should be included. And I do believe in microevolution as described by Darwin in the Galapagos Islands, but the evidence just isn't there to proclaim macroevolution a fact.
Aggie

Monticello, GA

#140 Nov 15, 2012
@LaForte Fan
Thank you.
LaForte Fan

Blue Ridge, GA

#141 Nov 16, 2012
Aggie wrote:
@LaForte Fan
Thank you.
You are welcome Aggie. Good brains do not grow on trees around here. You have a condescending tone with Lanius more than once, in my opinion. He truly does not deserve that. He has an excellent well read brain and a great and brave heart.

We've had a few creationists come thru here and they were very trying and scary. Lanius was very patient and kind to them. You know people should believe whatever they what to believe. As God said, according to Taylor Caldwell, "Thou Mayst".

I believe today's human has been hybridized with aliens, possibly repeatedly and another shot of good sense is long over due.

Thanks Mr. Plaid for the book tip about the life of Jesus. I'll ask my Kindle if he has it.

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