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21 - 40 of 56 Comments Last updated Nov 12, 2013
Hold on to Hope

Albuquerque, NM

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#21
Aug 28, 2013
 
I guess that's one of the reasons New Mexico is moving to Common Core State Standards. Every state, besides 5 I believe, uses Common Core. Maybe it will align the NM standardized tests and teaching practices with the rest of the nation. That way we can hopefully get an accurate look at how we really measure up against other states.
NEA NonSense

United States

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#22
Aug 29, 2013
 

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Hold on to Hope wrote:
Well, at least all of this finger pointing is getting us somewhere. But at least everyone complaining understands the ins and outs of our educational system in New Mexico...
Unless teachers, parents, administrators, and the PED quit making excuses and get on the same page and support one another we will continue to be "50 out of 50."
I don't know, maybe it's too much to hope for, which is sad.
If that can't happen then i'm sure there are plenty of ineffective teachers, uninvolved parents, crappy admins, and clueless politicians to keep this wonderful circle of incompetence and failure going.
Ok sorry, I'm done.
NM is a pro-teachers' union (AFT, NEA) state with pro-union views on education and teacher evaluations. That fact alone, explains why NM is 50th out of all 50 states..... When backward, redneck, Confederate states like Mississippi and Alabama beat NM, there's a big problem and it stems from the fact that NM is controlled by the teachers union who only want to protect bad teachers and pay them huge sums of $$$ and give our children a bad education.
Ted Haggard Your Friend

Farmington, NM

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#23
Aug 29, 2013
 
Sally wrote:
NM- 50th out of 50.
Are you referencing NEA stats or the Quality Counts 2013 Press Release or Education Week ?

Im not seeing NM at the bottom of any of these.
Alice

Denver, CO

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#24
Aug 30, 2013
 

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UH OK wrote:
Such BS.
Let's look at businesses. If a business under-performs, it doesn't last long. Using your theory--how do we force people to use our business? If we are to be successful, we find a way. We don't blame the customer.
Good grief. If you are associated with education, I can understand your stupidity.
<quoted text>
The business model has been operating in education for at least a decade. Students are not customers since they are the primary participant in the learning process, not passive receptacles. Again, I ask this question: When your doctor advises you to eat a healthier diet and you choose not to do that, who is accountable for that choice and the results?
a non- union worker

Farmington, NM

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#25
Aug 30, 2013
 

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NEA NonSense wrote:
<quoted text>
NM is a pro-teachers' union (AFT, NEA) state with pro-union views on education and teacher evaluations. That fact alone, explains why NM is 50th out of all 50 states..... When backward, redneck, Confederate states like Mississippi and Alabama beat NM, there's a big problem and it stems from the fact that NM is controlled by the teachers union who only want to protect bad teachers and pay them huge sums of $$$ and give our children a bad education.
Quite a statement,
Sounds like to me you need a Republican Loyalty Anti-Union card.
It acknowledges that you are apposed to all unions.
With this card you can refuse to accept any benefits that have been won thru the years. Have the money in your account.
Things like paid vacations, sick leave, paid holidays, pensions, insurance plans, overtime pay and others.

And no, I am not saying that every worker needs to have all benefits to be employed. Certainly that varies by employer.

I was told once from an employer that if I fell, I would be fired before I hit the ground.
I did not stay.

P.S. I have never worked for a union.

P.S.S. Did you have a rough childhood? Where is all this hate coming from ?
CRAP

Albuquerque, NM

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#27
Sep 3, 2013
 

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Alice wrote:
<quoted text>
The business model has been operating in education for at least a decade. Students are not customers since they are the primary participant in the learning process, not passive receptacles. Again, I ask this question: When your doctor advises you to eat a healthier diet and you choose not to do that, who is accountable for that choice and the results?
We are talking about CHILDREN!!! You are an idiot! A teacher?
Sock Puppet

Farmington, NM

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#28
Sep 3, 2013
 
DISAGREE wrote:
UGHHHHHHH "force a student to perform well on a standardized test" You are again missing the point! If a teacher is qualified to teach a subject and does so effectively, then the student will do well on the test. If the teacher is a dumbass, does not have the ability to teach all of her students, then the student will not do well, and the evaluation will be the judge. 50th out of 50!
IF, the teacher teaches the test !!!!!!!!!!
Alice

Denver, CO

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#29
Sep 4, 2013
 

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CRAP wrote:
<quoted text>
We are talking about CHILDREN!!! You are an idiot! A teacher?
Yes, Crap, that is exactly the point. Children should not be treated like widgets on an assembly line. Your reference to my intelligent quotient is not germane, as well as being inexplicable. Explain yourself, if you can.
MORECRAP

Albuquerque, NM

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#30
Sep 4, 2013
 

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Alice wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, Crap, that is exactly the point. Children should not be treated like widgets on an assembly line. Your reference to my intelligent quotient is not germane, as well as being inexplicable. Explain yourself, if you can.
Dumb to use the example of people not following their doctor's orders to compare to that of what children do. The point is that you will now be held responsible for the outcome of your classroom.
Alice

Denver, CO

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#31
Sep 4, 2013
 
MORECRAP wrote:
<quoted text>
Dumb to use the example of people not following their doctor's orders to compare to that of what children do. The point is that you will now be held responsible for the outcome of your classroom.
It's an analogy. Patients, like students, make their own choices about what they are willing to do in order to improve their health (in the case of patients) or learning (in the case of students). Age is not the issue. The issue is that the doctor has little control over the choices his or her patients make. The same is true for teachers and their students. Evaluate teachers on their performance in the classroom and as a school employee. To evaluate them on what their students do on any given standardized test is just smoke and mirrors. BTW, interesting choice of pseudonym you choose.
NEA Burnouts

United States

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#32
Sep 4, 2013
 
Alice wrote:
<quoted text>
It's an analogy. Patients, like students, make their own choices about what they are willing to do in order to improve their health (in the case of patients) or learning (in the case of students). Age is not the issue. The issue is that the doctor has little control over the choices his or her patients make. The same is true for teachers and their students. Evaluate teachers on their performance in the classroom and as a school employee. To evaluate them on what their students do on any given standardized test is just smoke and mirrors. BTW, interesting choice of pseudonym you choose.
Whoever you are Alice, it's very offensive of you to compare students in the classroom to patients with health problems. It's no surprise that you have to resort to blaming students for the failure of teachers. It sounds like you or the NEA and teacher's unions don't want to be held accountable in any way. That's wrong. Parents and our students deserve better than that.
Alice

Denver, CO

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#33
Sep 5, 2013
 
NEA Burnouts wrote:
<quoted text>
Whoever you are Alice, it's very offensive of you to compare students in the classroom to patients with health problems. It's no surprise that you have to resort to blaming students for the failure of teachers. It sounds like you or the NEA and teacher's unions don't want to be held accountable in any way. That's wrong. Parents and our students deserve better than that.
LOL! I admit I have no idea where to start since you aren't interested in having an intelligent discussion about how teachers should be evaluated. This has nothing to do with NEA or AFT, who actually are more supportive than I when it comes to using student test scores to evaluate teachers. Okay, one more time--comparing doctors and their jobs to teachers and theirs has nothing to do with "blaming students for the failures of teachers." Education is not something that gets done to you. It's something you take by engaging your mind. No one can make you do that but yourself. Supportive parents and teachers can help in that process, but only the student actually has control over what is learned.
BTW, what is learned isn't necessarily the same as what is scored on a standardized test, which is one of the primary problems with such tests. Expand your knowledge about testing and learning by reading some of the research out there. Then maybe we can talk.
Dude

United States

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#34
Sep 5, 2013
 
UH OK wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, that's all fine and good, but what makes NM 50 out of 50? Why can't we figure out the answer? Maybe the school systems should take a look at other states and districts that have improved and use them as a model. Are we ALL just too stupid for that?
The parents make NM 50/50. Generations of voluntary poverty and thinking entitlement are required.

We are the school system. People are always the problem.
Idiot

Albuquerque, NM

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#35
Sep 5, 2013
 

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Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
The parents make NM 50/50. Generations of voluntary poverty and thinking entitlement are required.
We are the school system. People are always the problem.
Poverty and thinking entitlement have nothing to do with the quality of a teacher. Unless you think that because you are poor that you are entitled to be a poor teacher?
Anybody

Farmington, NM

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#36
Sep 6, 2013
 
Are you referencing NEA stats or the Quality Counts 2013 Press Release or Education Week ?

Im not seeing NM at the bottom of any of these.
Facts

Albuquerque, NM

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#37
Sep 6, 2013
 
New Mexico has one of the worst four-year high school graduation rates in the nation and falls at the bottom of the pack when analyzing rates across nearly every demographic, according to 2010-2011 preliminary data released this week by the U.S. Department of Education.
The data are the first under the department's new method of calculating graduation rates across states.
Only Nevada, the District of Columbia and the Bureau of Indian Education rank below New Mexico on the percentage of all students graduating in four years.
Sixty-three percent of New Mexican students in the Class of 2011 graduated in four years.
"It's a compelling example of why we need to have a sense of urgency for our kids," Education Secretary-Designate Hanna Skandera said
ANALOGYZ

Albuquerque, NM

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#38
Sep 6, 2013
 
Alice wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! I admit I have no idea where to start since you aren't interested in having an intelligent discussion about how teachers should be evaluated. This has nothing to do with NEA or AFT, who actually are more supportive than I when it comes to using student test scores to evaluate teachers. Okay, one more time--comparing doctors and their jobs to teachers and theirs has nothing to do with "blaming students for the failures of teachers." Education is not something that gets done to you. It's something you take by engaging your mind. No one can make you do that but yourself. Supportive parents and teachers can help in that process, but only the student actually has control over what is learned.
BTW, what is learned isn't necessarily the same as what is scored on a standardized test, which is one of the primary problems with such tests. Expand your knowledge about testing and learning by reading some of the research out there. Then maybe we can talk.
So all the numbers are wrong? Then why take the time to test? Why have the people at a higher pay grade determined that some type of accountability must be done with teachers? It's due to the fact that the numbers show NM kids are failing, not graduating, and the teachers's are not held responsible for their part in it.It is their JOB!
Alice

Denver, CO

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#40
Sep 7, 2013
 
ANALOGYZ wrote:
<quoted text>
So all the numbers are wrong? Then why take the time to test? Why have the people at a higher pay grade determined that some type of accountability must be done with teachers? It's due to the fact that the numbers show NM kids are failing, not graduating, and the teachers's are not held responsible for their part in it.It is their JOB!
Did I say all the numbers are wrong? You need to read more carefully. That's your inference and not anything I said or implied. Secondly, just because "people at a higher pay grade determined..." doesn't mean that teachers haven't always been evaluated and accountable. Nor does it mean that a higher pay grade equates with greater wisdom.
The issue today is whether that evaluation should be based wholly, or in part, on student test scores--particularly scores from the state standardized test. That raises many questions that states have not been able (yet) to adequately address. Those are issues that need to be discussed.
Marcasite

Mesa, AZ

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#41
Sep 7, 2013
 
Alice wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, teachers should be accountable for THEIR work, not the students' work.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tea...

Merriam Webster's definition of 'teach' is "to CAUSE to know something."

To cause to know something.

As a TEACHer, yes ma'am, you ARE responsible for what your students learn.

A TEACHer should find ways to motivate the disinclined to learn.

Children are required to attend school, and it's inexcusable for TEACHers to shirk their responsibilities and, instead, blame the students--those they are being paid to cause to know something.

Your statement encapsulates the lazy attitude on display in the classroom--on the part of the TEACHer.
A Hunter

Mesa, AZ

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#42
Sep 7, 2013
 
Alice wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, teachers should be accountable for THEIR work, not the students' work
Ok, you lost me there. What, exactly, IS a teacher's work if not to teach? Enlighten me.

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