Owen Glen Subsidary of United Communi...
questions

Adel, GA

#112 Aug 31, 2013
Sorry, just read your post again. You are claiming 70+ lot sales this year alone? Were those to individual purchasers? Or was that in huge multilot chunks to other investors, a bank shell, etc? Again, sorry but this development has an interesting finance history and it seems rather odd that what sounds like such an "extremely active community" that has just sold 70+ lots in the past 8 months alone would need to come on Topix dredging up old negative posts in order to increase business.

My guess is that business has dried up, you see real estate collapsing, and suddenly you want the heck out of this thing. And desperate people will sometimes tell any lie to get their money out of a bad investment. But that sort of sucks for the people who get stuck with land that is handcuffed to high property taxes, amenity fees, hoa fees etc.

Sorry - but if you are telling the truth I would really want to know why the tax assesor isn't showing these sales.

Also - how many homes have actually been built, and how many actual lots exist that have been preplatted?
questions

Adel, GA

#113 Aug 31, 2013
Investor wrote:
<quoted text>I would have to know that United is out of the picture and in no way connected. They sell lots and then have fire sales and destroy your investment.
Very good point. Looking at nate's email you see his website as http://www.premierdevinc.com . The actual name on the website / company is "PREMIER LAND LIQUIDATORS".

Doesn't sound like a trusted and stable development organizer that is going to be around for the long haul. Sounds more like "get the money and run" - leaving new owners to deal with infrastructure, organizational, amenity and tax issues all alone.

And the point about UCBI is a good one. How much land are they still sitting on anyway? I wonder how many notes they are behind in deals like this - where they basically finance these developments out to 3rd party "Liquidators" so they can "Maintain distance" while trying to unload the property.

The whole region is pretty much suspect - because UCBI had involvement in a LOT of defunct developments. Buying lots in ANY of these regionally defunct developments is in my opinion insane - unless you can actually show a detailed legal and financial structure that deals with infrastructure, amenities, taxes, etc.

Some of these developments are also tax nightmares. When property taxes start shooting through the roof as local economies continue to get hit - these are probably going to be a Level One Target for tax assessors. They will levy up these lot taxes because it is "Low Hanging Fruit".

Mostly out of area investors with money, stuck with an asset they can't sell - so hit em with taxes.

Gotta love the out of area investors - the salvation of local property taxes.
I land my airplane

Fayetteville, GA

#114 Aug 31, 2013
questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Very good point. Looking at nate's email you see his website as http://www.premierdevinc.com . The actual name on the website / company is "PREMIER LAND LIQUIDATORS".
Doesn't sound like a trusted and stable development organizer that is going to be around for the long haul. Sounds more like "get the money and run" - leaving new owners to deal with infrastructure, organizational, amenity and tax issues all alone.
And the point about UCBI is a good one. How much land are they still sitting on anyway? I wonder how many notes they are behind in deals like this - where they basically finance these developments out to 3rd party "Liquidators" so they can "Maintain distance" while trying to unload the property.
The whole region is pretty much suspect - because UCBI had involvement in a LOT of defunct developments. Buying lots in ANY of these regionally defunct developments is in my opinion insane - unless you can actually show a detailed legal and financial structure that deals with infrastructure, amenities, taxes, etc.
Some of these developments are also tax nightmares. When property taxes start shooting through the roof as local economies continue to get hit - these are probably going to be a Level One Target for tax assessors. They will levy up these lot taxes because it is "Low Hanging Fruit".
Mostly out of area investors with money, stuck with an asset they can't sell - so hit em with taxes.
Gotta love the out of area investors - the salvation of local property taxes.
And stay united. United States. Airplane. Land. Gas. Wings. Nachos. Football. Beer. I'm hungry.
Carl

Clarkesville, GA

#115 Sep 1, 2013
Using up good oxygen too .
dawesome

Blairsville, GA

#116 Sep 9, 2013
To set the record straight.....evrything Nate has stated is correct!

I am a current owner and I am building a house in Owen Glen. I know the history both dated and recent. I was one of the last parties to buy from UCBI. Premier Land Liquidators purchased the land from UCBI the first of the year. At that time approximately 36 of the 100 Owen Glen lots had been sold. Premier did have a liquidation sale in March sold approximately 50 to 55 of the remaing lots at todays market values, not $7K a piece as you stated. The clubhouse is almost complete as of this date. Premier then developed another part of the development (Owen Glen Reserve) and sold lots in June. I do not know how many were sold but again they were sold at current market real estate values.

Union County tax records have not been updated since january of 2013 so whatever you are looking at is completely inaccurate and superfluous.

Currently Premier (the declarant) is responsible for enforcement of the covenants and rules and regulations of Owen Glen and maintaining the amenities which they have done. Dues for each purchased lot are being collected by Premier. The covenants are strict for a mountain community in order to protect the development. As soon as a majority of the development is sold, they will turn over the reins to an elected POA of Owen Glen residents.

While one may disagree with the marketing techniques of Premier, they have not held fire sale of any kind, only a planned marketing campaign that has been very successful.

Again I know there is a lot of history, anger, questions, etc involving Owen Glen, but that is all in the past. There have been 8 houses built and sold in OG with 4 more under constuction. This will be a dynamic development in a few years. I'm sorry that investors lost money but that is the risk that comes with investing in real estate at the top of the market. I too invested in land at this time and will probably never get my money back. at least my investment is paid for.
questions wrote:
<quoted text>
You say you bought the land. Are any of the original investors still involved as fractional owners? When did you purchase the property? Are you "Discover Golf?"? What is their involvement / relationship - since they seem to control a substantial amount of the amenitities? Also - Tax records still show "Owne Glen Inc" as the owner of record on tax cards. WHO are you exactly? Company/Developer name?
Nothing personal - but lots of history involved in this deal. Buying into a defunct development / golf community that might have infrastructure issues, amenity problems etc is not a decision to be taken lightly.
Also - looks like you had a firesale on lots for about $7k a piece a few months ago. How many have you sold? These are all questions I would want answers to before seriously entertaining a purchase here - with heaviest emphasis on who is running the show, what sort of legal setup (Developer vs Homeowners Assoc etc) is responsible for ongoing costs of running the comunity, maintaining amenities etc.
funny

Jefferson, GA

#118 Sep 9, 2013
Nate didn't do a very good job of thinking through the consequences of posting on Topix. I don't think anyone is buying this miracle resurrection story.
my way of thinking

Blairsville, GA

#119 Sep 9, 2013
round two wrote:
<quoted text>
Also - how much does that clubhouse cost? Is the developer eating the cost or are the homeowners going to get stuck with the construction cost, the note, the ongoing operating cost etc.? Stinks of stupid and desperate to have a clubhouse for 8 houses. They probably started all this clubhouse building thinking real estate was rebounding but it is nose diving again and they will most likely do anything to sell everything they can and quickly and happily turn over the costs to the poa lot holders that get stuck holding the empty financial bag. Investor rape - round 2. No shame in this game.
And I'd still want to know if the bank or any original developers have money in this. You conveniently failed to mention that. And how many of those 4 houses are spec? Are buyers lining up? At best is that 12 houses, plus an expensive clubhouse, plus a golf course to maintain and operate, and infrastructure.
ouch. some people never learn.
Some subdivisions developers around Atlanta retained ownership of the clubhouse and golf course. One that I remember wanted to sell the clubhouse to another company. The owners in the subdivision were going to take them to court because they thought that they owned the property. However, the homeowners didn't own it but thought they did.
screwed by bank

Jefferson, GA

#120 Sep 9, 2013
Highest Land in Georgia finally gets foreclosure notice. How many years did they go without paying before foreclosure called. So many of this crowd are protected. I am willing to bet the Govt paid off most - and those involved will skate away with little pain. I think this is Lamar buddy Dick Bell's old land. Tax Assessor websites haven't been updated this year. When they are the number of foreclosures is going to SHOCK real estate values. People will be shocked at amount of land moving and changing hands at pennies on dollar. FDIC has set up huge private company partnerships that have been foreclosing. Here is highest land notice. http://www.nganews.com/pdf/ngn09-04-13Legals....
depends on who you are

United States

#121 Sep 9, 2013
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/ga_display.php...

Another tax break in Union County
observation

Jefferson, GA

#122 Sep 9, 2013
1/2 the tax assesed value of the land next to it. Gotta wonder what Dick Bell did to get that alsl. Can't help but notice it is listed as a "Gift". Mighty expensive 6 acre gift. I've always wondered about what exactly you have to do to get a gift like that. Hows it work I wonder?
observation

Jefferson, GA

#123 Sep 9, 2013
correction - a 61 acre gift
eyes wide open

Cornelia, GA

#124 Sep 9, 2013
screwed by bank wrote:
Highest Land in Georgia finally gets foreclosure notice. How many years did they go without paying before foreclosure called. So many of this crowd are protected. I am willing to bet the Govt paid off most - and those involved will skate away with little pain. I think this is Lamar buddy Dick Bell's old land. Tax Assessor websites haven't been updated this year. When they are the number of foreclosures is going to SHOCK real estate values. People will be shocked at amount of land moving and changing hands at pennies on dollar. FDIC has set up huge private company partnerships that have been foreclosing. Here is highest land notice. http://www.nganews.com/pdf/ngn09-04-13Legals....
highest land in georgia llc members as of 5-10-2005

included ADAM TEAGUE

http://soskb.sos.state.ga.us/imaging/18131644...
dawesome

Ellijay, GA

#125 Sep 10, 2013
Round two ... since you don't have a dog in this hunt I'm wondering why you want to throw darts at me. They sold one lot for $7900. As an interested property owner, I went to the sale so I know what occurred. As I said they are marketers not investors. I also said even though I did not agree with the method, it was effective. They used the same method at the March sale. The clubhouse was started after 36 lots were sold. The developer is paying for the construction of the clubhouse. Ongoing maintenance and operation will be the responsibility of the POA. Even though the development is not built out (like most communities in N. GA), POA dues are collected from lot owners annually. I have know idea who has money in what. I know UCBI has no interest at this point. If you have facts other than your BS to present then do so. I am trying to present an accurate picture. Not why you are interested. Perhaps you were an investor? So I'm calling BS on you brother. And for what it is worth the darn golf course is privately owned now and has been for sometime. If you had any real "facts" you'd know that BS'er.
round two wrote:
<quoted text>
Calling BS on you. Here's a quote from their website on that June Liquidation:
"Owen Glen Reserve Lot Liquidation Starting June 15th, 2013
A one day liquidation event will be held on-site at Owen Glen on Saturday June 15th. Lots will start at $7,900."
$7,900 Lots. Also - how much does that clubhouse cost? Is the developer eating the cost or are the homeowners going to get stuck with the construction cost, the note, the ongoing operating cost etc.? Stinks of stupid and desperate to have a clubhouse for 8 houses. They probably started all this clubhouse building thinking real estate was rebounding but it is nose diving again and they will most likely do anything to sell everything they can and quickly and happily turn over the costs to the poa lot holders that get stuck holding the empty financial bag. Investor rape - round 2. No shame in this game.
And I'd still want to know if the bank or any original developers have money in this. You conveniently failed to mention that. And how many of those 4 houses are spec? Are buyers lining up? At best is that 12 houses, plus an expensive clubhouse, plus a golf course to maintain and operate, and infrastructure.
ouch. some people never learn.
dawesome

Ellijay, GA

#126 Sep 10, 2013
Round two ... since you don't have a dog in this hunt I'm wondering why you want to throw darts at me. They sold one lot for $7900. As an interested property owner, I went to the sale so I know what occurred. As I said they are marketers not investors. I also said even though I did not agree with the method, it was effective. They used the same method at the March sale. The clubhouse was started after 36 lots were sold. The developer is paying for the construction of the clubhouse. Ongoing maintenance and operation will be the responsibility of the POA. Even though the development is not built out (like most communities in N. GA), POA dues are collected from lot owners annually. I have know idea who has money in what. I know UCBI has no interest at this point. If you have facts other than your BS to present then do so. I am trying to present an accurate picture. Not why you are interested. Perhaps you were an investor? So I'm calling BS on you brother. And for what it is worth the darn golf course is privately owned now and has been for sometime. If you had any real "facts" you'd know that BS'er.
round two

AOL

#128 Sep 10, 2013
Look at all that hype. Couple of thoughts.

1 IF WE ASSUME THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH, and if Mr "dawesome" is telling the truth, we are expected to believe all these lots are selling at what he called "market values". Looks like "market values" are firesale values - but he's trying to make it look like people are actually paying good money for these lots, and that the community is just thriving.

2 IF all these great sales are occurring, why has the new policy in the region SUDDENLY changed to having the tax assessors offices not logging the property ownership changes and sales details except for once a year. They used to update all the records every couple of months as they came in. Why are they hiding all this great success, increase in the tax base etc?

I find it a bit too convenient that all this great stuff is going on, yet we can't access any supporting data, and we are expected to believe in this horrible economy that people are suddenly all warm and fuzzy and buying defunct community lots like mad. EVERYONE I know in realestate knows that POA fees are killers when it comes to holding costs. EVERYONE I know in reaslestate knows that the counties are taxing everything they can with property taxes, and are fighting reducing these lot values which is another huge holding cost. NOBODY I know expects lot values to turn around in the foreseeable decade, or two, or three.

Just where did Nate find that many gullible people?

Lastly Mr. dawesome? You say you are building a house? What's the address? If there are only 4 under construction it hould be easy to figure you. My only question is... are you building to live there? Or are you just a developer/builder that got sucked into the illusion the marketing was recovering and jumped back in too early?

I'm calling BS.... because I have a brain and a smidget of common sense.
Just a thought

Cleveland, GA

#129 Sep 10, 2013
The RE market is dead and will remain that way for at least the next 10 years. Anyone would be a fool to buy in a subdivision like Owen Glen as an investment. The cost going in might be small the the cost of maintaining it year after year is enormous. UCB may not show as a partner but I am sure they are holding the paper and it was at unbelievable terms.
dawesome

Blairsville, GA

#130 Sep 10, 2013
I give up I guess we must agree to disagree. I'll check back in a couple of years. Go to the courthouse and ask for the public records.
round two wrote:
Look at all that hype. Couple of thoughts.
1 IF WE ASSUME THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH, and if Mr "dawesome" is telling the truth, we are expected to believe all these lots are selling at what he called "market values". Looks like "market values" are firesale values - but he's trying to make it look like people are actually paying good money for these lots, and that the community is just thriving.
2 IF all these great sales are occurring, why has the new policy in the region SUDDENLY changed to having the tax assessors offices not logging the property ownership changes and sales details except for once a year. They used to update all the records every couple of months as they came in. Why are they hiding all this great success, increase in the tax base etc?
I find it a bit too convenient that all this great stuff is going on, yet we can't access any supporting data, and we are expected to believe in this horrible economy that people are suddenly all warm and fuzzy and buying defunct community lots like mad. EVERYONE I know in realestate knows that POA fees are killers when it comes to holding costs. EVERYONE I know in reaslestate knows that the counties are taxing everything they can with property taxes, and are fighting reducing these lot values which is another huge holding cost. NOBODY I know expects lot values to turn around in the foreseeable decade, or two, or three.
Just where did Nate find that many gullible people?
Lastly Mr. dawesome? You say you are building a house? What's the address? If there are only 4 under construction it hould be easy to figure you. My only question is... are you building to live there? Or are you just a developer/builder that got sucked into the illusion the marketing was recovering and jumped back in too early?
I'm calling BS.... because I have a brain and a smidget of common sense.
flip

Commerce, GA

#131 Sep 10, 2013
screwed by bank wrote:
Highest Land in Georgia finally gets foreclosure notice. How many years did they go without paying before foreclosure called. So many of this crowd are protected. I am willing to bet the Govt paid off most - and those involved will skate away with little pain. I think this is Lamar buddy Dick Bell's old land. Tax Assessor websites haven't been updated this year. When they are the number of foreclosures is going to SHOCK real estate values. People will be shocked at amount of land moving and changing hands at pennies on dollar. FDIC has set up huge private company partnerships that have been foreclosing. Here is highest land notice. http://www.nganews.com/pdf/ngn09-04-13Legals....
Dick gets the chance to buy it back at bargain prices. Has a real good tax appraisal value.
Sales History:(appraised @$1,133,721 ….. 2012 Tax year)(Parcel #125 010)
06-10-2005 Richard Bell,et al to Kaylor Properties LLC 1,557,900
06-10-2005 to AMRO LLC 4,912,600
11-07-2005 to Highest Land in Georgia LLC 5,072,000
lady luck

Jefferson, GA

#132 Sep 10, 2013
Kaylor Properties appears to have acted as middle in a 1 day transaction that netted approx $3.4 Million. Holly Kaylor is married to Bert Nelson. Any connection here to Holt or WC? I'm really trying to figure out the "luck" or "legalities" involved in being able to flip a same day property for $3.4 million. More to this I think.
Ask the Teagues

Commerce, GA

#134 Sep 10, 2013
U.S. Attorney Sally Quillian Yates said in a news release that Georgia has led the nation in bank failures since 2008,“including this one.”
“This bank was robbed from the inside, not by a bandit carrying a gun, but a bank officer carrying a pen,” Yates said.
FBI sentencing report: 4-5-13
www.fbi.gov/atlanta/press-releases/2013/forme...
“Teague contributed to the failure of TARP-applicant Appalachian Community Bank by fraudulently masking the bank’s true financial condition while enriching himself,” said Christy Romero, Special Inspector General for TARP (SIGTARP).“Driven by greed and risky behavior, Teague engaged in an ‘extend and pretend’ scheme using the proceeds of new bank loans to hide past-due loans. He also hid the bank’s growing inventory of foreclosed property by directing the bank to finance sales of the properties to buyers including two Teague-controlled shell companies, GPH [“God Please Help”] Investments and PHL [“Please Help Lord”] Investments. SIGTARP and our law enforcement partners will root-out fraud related to TARP, hold fraudsters accountable, and bring justice to American taxpayers.”
Concealment of Past-Due Loans
In an attempt to prevent the FDIC from discovering certain past-due loans on Appalachian’s books, between June 2008 and August 2009, Teague and unindicted co-conspirator T.N. arranged a number of sham real estate transactions and caused the bank to make approximately $7 million in fraudulent loans to unindicted coconspirator M.L. Teague and M.L. intended to make it appear as if M.L. had purchased certain properties from Appalachian’s foreclosure inventory and was making regular monthly payments on the new mortgages.
Panama City Beach Condominiums
In April 2009, Teague and unindicted co-conspirator T.N. used shell corporations to purchase two condominiums in Panama City Beach, Florida, and caused Appalachian to finance them at a total cost of approximately $566,000. Approximately two months later, the two refinanced their mortgages and pocketed more than $875,000 which they then used to pay other personal debts, make monthly loan payments on the refinanced mortgages, pay condominium fees, and purchase new furniture for their condominiums.
GPH Investments LLC and PHL Investments LLC
In August 2009, Teague and unindicted coconspirator T.N. created two shell companies: GPH Investments LLC and PHL Investments LLC. GPH is an acronym for “God Please Help,” and PHL is an acronym for “Please Help Lord.” Teague and T.N. then engaged in a sham real estate transaction designed to make it appear as if GPH had purchased 11 residential properties from Appalachian’s foreclosure inventory for a total of approximately $3.7 million.
Teague and T.N. then caused Appalachian to loan GPH 90 percent of the purchase price and caused GPH to represent at closing that it was paying the other 10 percent of the purchase price out of its own funds, even though the two of them knew that to be untrue. The 10 percent down payment, closing costs, and monthly interest payments on this loan were all paid out of the proceeds from a $500,000 line of credit that Teague and unindicted co-conspirator T.N. fraudulently caused Appalachian to extend to PHL.
Soak Creek Preserve Partners Land Flips
Teague and three other individuals owned Soak Creek Preserve Partners LLC (Soak Creek), a Georgia limited liability company formed for the sole purpose of engaging land flips, that is, buying real estate and immediately reselling it at a higher price. Specifically, Soak Creek was formed to purchase and resell two adjoining tracts of land in Tennessee. One tract consisted of approximately 5,043 acres and the other tract consisted of approximately 2,160 acres. Before Soak Creek purchased either tract, Teague and his partners made arrangements to resell both tracts to an investment group from Texas.

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