Obama the Socialist

“To Eff The Ineffable”

Since: Nov 12

Wailuku

#843 Nov 29, 2012
really? nothing since nov 6?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#844 Dec 7, 2012
Tavita wrote:
really? nothing since nov 6?
Naw, everyone realizes they're whipping a dead horse and it ain't gonna do any good. He's the new U.S. Savior doncha' know!?!
Informed Opinion

New York, NY

#845 Dec 7, 2012
Hope he closes down that socialist V.A. Clinic those liberal Democraps put in Blairsville. Everyone knows that Guvment can't provide healthcare, and why are we allowing the Guvment to compete with those poor doctors who can barely support their families.

Makes a man so damn mad he wants to burn his Socialist Security check.

Well, maybe not.

I know, we'll just have another bourbon then complain about all that federal money invading Georgia.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#846 Dec 8, 2012
Maybe folks need to take the time to watch this and think about The U.S. Savior and how good he is.
This just happen a few months ago.


“To Eff The Ineffable”

Since: Nov 12

Wailuku

#847 Dec 8, 2012
Local Mountain Man wrote:
Maybe folks need to take the time to watch this and think about The U.S. Savior and how good he is.
This just happen a few months ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =bFALonjLay0XX
Unfortunately, excessive zeal by gov't law enforcement agents is not unique to the present administration. Ruby Ridge and Waco are a couple of glaring examples, but there are many more going back through the last century.
Power does corrupt.
Invariably.
Informed Opinion

Bronx, NY

#848 Dec 9, 2012
Tavita wrote:
<quoted text>Unfortunately, excessive zeal by gov't law enforcement agents is not unique to the present administration. Ruby Ridge and Waco are a couple of glaring examples, but there are many more going back through the last century.
Power does corrupt.
Invariably.
Great post.
blairsville devil

Wesley Chapel, FL

#849 Dec 9, 2012
The BLairsvile Devil doesn't think it is or was a great or good post.I will agree that the feds sometimes do things that aren't accepted by many,but this is only a re-enactmentand that reduces the credibility to nearly zero,that's my opinion.
Informed Opinion

Bronx, NY

#850 Dec 9, 2012
blairsville devil wrote:
The BLairsvile Devil doesn't think it is or was a great or good post.I will agree that the feds sometimes do things that aren't accepted by many,but this is only a re-enactmentand that reduces the credibility to nearly zero,that's my opinion.
And you are entitled to it.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#851 Dec 9, 2012
Tavita wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, excessive zeal by gov't law enforcement agents is not unique to the present administration. Ruby Ridge and Waco are a couple of glaring examples, but there are many more going back through the last century.
Power does corrupt.
Invariably.
You are right but, this was unprevoked for no reason other than harrasment as has been done to several other businesses recently because of disagreeing openly with the government mostly in a vocal way.
Ruby Ridge was done supposedly because of [a threat] from Randy and Waco was done because of a stash of illegal weaponry as well as sexual abuse by David.
I thought that the U.S. Savior was supposedly trying to help the small businesses and boost the economy, not destroy them.

“To Eff The Ineffable”

Since: Nov 12

Wailuku

#852 Dec 9, 2012
Local Mountain Man wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right but, this was unprevoked for no reason other than harrasment as has been done to several other businesses recently because of disagreeing openly with the government mostly in a vocal way.
Ruby Ridge was done supposedly because of [a threat] from Randy and Waco was done because of a stash of illegal weaponry as well as sexual abuse by David.
I thought that the U.S. Savior was supposedly trying to help the small businesses and boost the economy, not destroy them.
In the video I didn't see that anyone had voiced disagreement with the government. It did mention that the raid was IRS related but not how. Loss or gain of money is often a reason people react violently. Never the less, all of the above cases could have been handled in a manner that respected the rule of law and due process.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#853 Dec 10, 2012
Tavita wrote:
<quoted text>
In the video I didn't see that anyone had voiced disagreement with the government. It did mention that the raid was IRS related but not how. Loss or gain of money is often a reason people react violently. Never the less, all of the above cases could have been handled in a manner that respected the rule of law and due process.
Unfortunately the extra info concerning these matters is no longer available to me any longer.
Yes the raid was supposedly concerning the IRS but each of the businesses were not at fault with the IRS according to the Attorney involved. And yes it all should have been handled quite differently, but under the current circumstances with the Federal Governing System, all small businesses need to be extremely concerned.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#854 Dec 11, 2012
MON DEC 10, 2012 AT 05:15 PM PST
Hostess took workers' pension money to fund itself
by Laura Clawson
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/10/1168...

Of all the outrages Hostess has committed against its workers, this may take the cake. In August, 2011, the company just stopped contributing to its workers' pensions, and is now acknowledging that it instead used the money for operational expenses. The money that didn't go into pension funds was money that the workers had bargained for and chosen to take as pension instead of wages. But that doesn't mean there's anything they can do about it:
The maneuver probably doesn't violate federal law because the money Hostess failed to put into the pension didn't come directly from employees, experts said.

"It's what lawyers call betrayal without remedy," said James P. Baker, a partner at Baker & McKenzie LLP who specializes in employee benefits and isn't involved in the Hostess case. "It's sad, but that stuff does happen, unfortunately."

It's a little more than sad. It's infuriating, at a minimum. And the fact that "that stuff does happen" as often as it does is a sign of a diseased economy.
This was how these workers were saving for their retirement over decades at Hostess. They were being responsible, planning and saving like we're told we should all do, making that decision at a local level as they bargained their contracts:

For example, John Jordan, a union official and former Hostess employee, said workers at a Hostess factory in Biddeford, Maine, agreed to plow 28 cents of their 30-cents-an-hour wage increase in November 2010 into the pension plan.

Hostess was supposed to take the additional 28 cents an hour and contribute it to the workers' pension plan.

"This local was very aggressive about saving for the future," he said.

And in the end, Hostess was very aggressive about stealing those savings, hour by hour, from the workers. While there may not be a remedy because the 28 cents an hour didn't first go to the workers and then into the pension fund, morally, it's no less stealing, adding up to tens of millions of dollars. The current CEO of Hostess says it's "terrible," but don't blame him, he didn't know it was happening.

You do not want to be the next person to say in my hearing that Hostess went bankrupt because of those greedy union workers.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#855 Dec 11, 2012
Oh my wrote:
MON DEC 10, 2012 AT 05:15 PM PST
Hostess took workers' pension money to fund itself
by Laura Clawson
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/10/1168...
Of all the outrages Hostess has committed against its workers, this may take the cake. In August, 2011, the company just stopped contributing to its workers' pensions, and is now acknowledging that it instead used the money for operational expenses. The money that didn't go into pension funds was money that the workers had bargained for and chosen to take as pension instead of wages. But that doesn't mean there's anything they can do about it:
The maneuver probably doesn't violate federal law because the money Hostess failed to put into the pension didn't come directly from employees, experts said.
"It's what lawyers call betrayal without remedy," said James P. Baker, a partner at Baker & McKenzie LLP who specializes in employee benefits and isn't involved in the Hostess case. "It's sad, but that stuff does happen, unfortunately."
It's a little more than sad. It's infuriating, at a minimum. And the fact that "that stuff does happen" as often as it does is a sign of a diseased economy.
This was how these workers were saving for their retirement over decades at Hostess. They were being responsible, planning and saving like we're told we should all do, making that decision at a local level as they bargained their contracts:
For example, John Jordan, a union official and former Hostess employee, said workers at a Hostess factory in Biddeford, Maine, agreed to plow 28 cents of their 30-cents-an-hour wage increase in November 2010 into the pension plan.
Hostess was supposed to take the additional 28 cents an hour and contribute it to the workers' pension plan.
"This local was very aggressive about saving for the future," he said.
And in the end, Hostess was very aggressive about stealing those savings, hour by hour, from the workers. While there may not be a remedy because the 28 cents an hour didn't first go to the workers and then into the pension fund, morally, it's no less stealing, adding up to tens of millions of dollars. The current CEO of Hostess says it's "terrible," but don't blame him, he didn't know it was happening.
You do not want to be the next person to say in my hearing that Hostess went bankrupt because of those greedy union workers.
Now that was a crying shame, for real.

“To Eff The Ineffable”

Since: Nov 12

Wailuku

#856 Dec 11, 2012
Oh my wrote:
MON DEC 10, 2012 AT 05:15 PM PST
Hostess took workers' pension money to fund itself
by Laura Clawson
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/10/1168...
Of all the outrages Hostess has committed against its workers, this may take the cake. In August, 2011, the company just stopped contributing to its workers' pensions, and is now acknowledging that it instead used the money for operational expenses. The money that didn't go into pension funds was money that the workers had bargained for and chosen to take as pension instead of wages. But that doesn't mean there's anything they can do about it:
The maneuver probably doesn't violate federal law because the money Hostess failed to put into the pension didn't come directly from employees, experts said.
"It's what lawyers call betrayal without remedy," said James P. Baker, a partner at Baker & McKenzie LLP who specializes in employee benefits and isn't involved in the Hostess case. "It's sad, but that stuff does happen, unfortunately."
It's a little more than sad. It's infuriating, at a minimum. And the fact that "that stuff does happen" as often as it does is a sign of a diseased economy.
This was how these workers were saving for their retirement over decades at Hostess. They were being responsible, planning and saving like we're told we should all do, making that decision at a local level as they bargained their contracts:
For example, John Jordan, a union official and former Hostess employee, said workers at a Hostess factory in Biddeford, Maine, agreed to plow 28 cents of their 30-cents-an-hour wage increase in November 2010 into the pension plan.
Hostess was supposed to take the additional 28 cents an hour and contribute it to the workers' pension plan.
"This local was very aggressive about saving for the future," he said.
And in the end, Hostess was very aggressive about stealing those savings, hour by hour, from the workers. While there may not be a remedy because the 28 cents an hour didn't first go to the workers and then into the pension fund, morally, it's no less stealing, adding up to tens of millions of dollars. The current CEO of Hostess says it's "terrible," but don't blame him, he didn't know it was happening.
You do not want to be the next person to say in my hearing that Hostess went bankrupt because of those greedy union workers.
If you're poor and you steal you go to jail or prison. If you're wealthy and you steal you go to Waikiki or St- Tropez.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#857 Dec 11, 2012
Tavita wrote:
<quoted text>
If you're poor and you steal you go to jail or prison. If you're wealthy and you steal you go to Waikiki or St- Tropez.
Or a Politican or their spouse you can go just about where you want to.
Informed Opinion

Portland, OR

#858 Dec 11, 2012
Oh my wrote:
MON DEC 10, 2012 AT 05:15 PM PST
Hostess took workers' pension money to fund itself
by Laura Clawson
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/10/1168...
Of all the outrages Hostess has committed against its workers, this may take the cake. In August, 2011, the company just stopped contributing to its workers' pensions, and is now acknowledging that it instead used the money for operational expenses. The money that didn't go into pension funds was money that the workers had bargained for and chosen to take as pension instead of wages. But that doesn't mean there's anything they can do about it:
The maneuver probably doesn't violate federal law because the money Hostess failed to put into the pension didn't come directly from employees, experts said.
"It's what lawyers call betrayal without remedy," said James P. Baker, a partner at Baker & McKenzie LLP who specializes in employee benefits and isn't involved in the Hostess case. "It's sad, but that stuff does happen, unfortunately."
It's a little more than sad. It's infuriating, at a minimum. And the fact that "that stuff does happen" as often as it does is a sign of a diseased economy.
This was how these workers were saving for their retirement over decades at Hostess. They were being responsible, planning and saving like we're told we should all do, making that decision at a local level as they bargained their contracts:
For example, John Jordan, a union official and former Hostess employee, said workers at a Hostess factory in Biddeford, Maine, agreed to plow 28 cents of their 30-cents-an-hour wage increase in November 2010 into the pension plan.
Hostess was supposed to take the additional 28 cents an hour and contribute it to the workers' pension plan.
"This local was very aggressive about saving for the future," he said.
And in the end, Hostess was very aggressive about stealing those savings, hour by hour, from the workers. While there may not be a remedy because the 28 cents an hour didn't first go to the workers and then into the pension fund, morally, it's no less stealing, adding up to tens of millions of dollars. The current CEO of Hostess says it's "terrible," but don't blame him, he didn't know it was happening.
You do not want to be the next person to say in my hearing that Hostess went bankrupt because of those greedy union workers.
Thank God we have weak unions,
and corporations that own the politicians,
and soon will own the courts,
otherwise someone might have stopped the company from stealing all the employees' money to pay themselves bonuses.

We recently fired and employee for what we believed was a legitimate reason.
She instituted litigation claiming her termination was unlawful.
After she lost the litigation and she was ordered to pay our attorneys' fees and costs,
I watched her drive away in a "beater" car displaying a "Rubio for Senate" bumper sticker.

She and her Fox Noise travelers will never understand that they support the very people who took away her right to even argue she had a right to that job.

God Loves irony.
Zotar

Dawsonville, GA

#859 Dec 12, 2012
The Daily Kos article posted by Oh my is an outrage, no doubt about it. So far, we are seeing only part of this story which serves to add fuel to the fire at a time when Corporation bashing is fashionable and in some cases, richly deserved.

First, I find it very hard to believe the CEO's claim that he knew nothing about Hostess using a portion of the company's contribution to the emloyee's pension fund for operational purposes.

The rest of this story which may eventualy come out, is that the Bakers Union officials were complicit in this diversion of funds. It is not unusual for a company to call in the Union when the financial future of the company may be at stake. The Union officials could readily see the possibility of their losing approximately $6.4 million annually in union dues.
The Union could very well have suggested this method of diverting pension funds or readily agreed to it when it was suggested by company officials. Either way, it should never have been done. Legal? Yes. But, morally and ethically wrong.

Unfortunately, it seems the media has treated the demise of Hostess as one of humour since they make
Ding Dongs and Twinkies. However, the sad fact is that there are now well over 18,000 more Americans out of work for reasons as yet unknown.
Zoltar

Dawsonville, GA

#860 Dec 12, 2012
I mis-spelled my own screen name. Way to go, Zoltar.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#861 Dec 12, 2012
Zotar wrote:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
...The rest of this story which may eventualy come out, is that the Bakers Union officials were complicit in this diversion of funds. It is not unusual for a company to call in the Union when the financial future of the company may be at stake. The Union officials could readily see the possibility of their losing approximately $6.4 million annually in union dues.

The Union could very well have suggested this method of diverting pension funds or readily agreed to it when it was suggested by company officials. Either way, it should never have been done. Legal? Yes. But, morally and ethically wrong.
Do keep us posted on your speculations.

In the meantime, the union members did accept concessions a few years previous when management pleaded for the need, which did not stop the downhill slide. Course one also has to wonder why the union would claim recent outragous executive pay increases with nary a peep of disclaim from management.

One also needs to look at the products sold by Hostess and wonder how much this contributes to their own decline.
Zoltar

Dawsonville, GA

#862 Dec 12, 2012
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Do keep us posted on your speculations.
In the meantime, the union members did accept concessions a few years previous when management pleaded for the need, which did not stop the downhill slide. Course one also has to wonder why the union would claim recent outragous executive pay increases with nary a peep of disclaim from management.
One also needs to look at the products sold by Hostess and wonder how much this contributes to their own decline.
Why, thank you. As more speculations enter my most feeble of minds, I will certainly keep you posted.

You make some very good points. However, When the Union complained relative to the Hostess executive's pay raises, they were doing their job. Management could disclaim all they wanted, but, their pay is a matter of public record.

It does appear their product line contributed somewhat to their decline as you state. Companies always have to change to stay with the times and their market. A Twinkie Lite might have saved'em.

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