1% sales tax for board of education
AGREE

Dawsonville, GA

#62 Jan 20, 2013
All this is good information, and no question money is being wasted, including on huge loans, interest payments, and extravagant unfunded projects. If BOE was forced to do pay as you go they could have saved $2.5 Million in Interest Payments and they would have been forced to think a little harder and prioritze needs before launching projects.

Then they need to cut salaries by 5% on everyone over $50,000 year. That is very modest considering the average wage destruction in the general public. Public employees have to get over this automatic built in raise schedule notion.

No more money till they are forced to make changes and show they can think along any line other than give me more money.
IAgree

Dawsonville, GA

#63 Jan 20, 2013
AGREE wrote:
All this is good information, and no question money is being wasted, including on huge loans, interest payments, and extravagant unfunded projects. If BOE was forced to do pay as you go they could have saved $2.5 Million in Interest Payments and they would have been forced to think a little harder and prioritze needs before launching projects.
Then they need to cut salaries by 5% on everyone over $50,000 year. That is very modest considering the average wage destruction in the general public. Public employees have to get over this automatic built in raise schedule notion.
No more money till they are forced to make changes and show they can think along any line other than give me more money.

And that $2.5 million interest is for only 5 years. That's a hellva amount of interest for 5 years! Wasted money by our enlightened leaders.
Knows

Commerce, GA

#64 Jan 20, 2013
Just Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
If the ESPLOST isn't approved/renewed in March, then the (future) capital expenditure items to be specifically designated for the continued 1% tax must either be scrapped or, more likely, be done ANYWAY... only with property tax monies. We save nearly NOTHING regarding current county indebtedness... but whoopee, we save a penny per buck spent at the store (ok, on the utility bills too.)
My opinion... kill the OTHER 2% SPLOSTs when they expire, and demand NOW to know exactly WHAT projects are included in the next ESPLOST to get rid of any unnecessary BS projects in in it. Make the BOE is VERY SPECIFIC! No artificial turf or $5 million gyms for the 100 students in Suches. Spend it better, or don't spend it at all.
Kill the damn ESPLOST now. The last ESPLOST vote was put out there by the Board as the first one where they had only "nice to do" projects instead of "need to do" projects. What did we get for that money? A bunch of trees cleared and flat places for ball fields and parking lots. Every real person and company is having to make do with less just to survive. And many are not able to do even that. But these school board members want our money to do "nice to have" projects. It is Nero fiddling while Rome is burning all over again. It's time to kill the ESPLOST now and the SPLOST next.
life is good

Commerce, GA

#65 Jan 20, 2013
Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
Kill the damn ESPLOST now. The last ESPLOST vote was put out there by the Board as the first one where they had only "nice to do" projects instead of "need to do" projects. What did we get for that money? A bunch of trees cleared and flat places for ball fields and parking lots. Every real person and company is having to make do with less just to survive. And many are not able to do even that. But these school board members want our money to do "nice to have" projects. It is Nero fiddling while Rome is burning all over again. It's time to kill the ESPLOST now and the SPLOST next.
Two yes votes here!!
joe

Cornelia, GA

#66 Jan 20, 2013
Counties USE TO have to spend within their means from property taxes. But greed has gotten into the way and they just keep wanting more and more and more. You are right they need to learn to cut back and live within their budget just like families have to do.
WASTE and SPEND is what it's all about now...
bogus my politicians

Dahlonega, GA

#67 Jan 20, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Just re-read my post.
Does it say "most" of the revenue ? I don't see that I the post, but hey, I miss things all the time.
Folks in Union County are sitting on two kinds of gold mines:
- cabins owned by seasonal residents who pay full time taxes and use part-time services;
and
- visitors who bring their wallets to stay, shop, dine, and enjoy the mountains.
We get excess tax money from seasonal residents from property taxes without trying.
We get excess funds from visitors and tourists by transferring the tax load from other sources to taxes paid by tourists, visitors and part-time residents,(sales taxes).
The extra sales taxes collected subsidizes the costs of government services for all.
Just my conclusion.
But hey, reasonable people can disagree agreeably.
I'm sorry. I should not have said "most" when the study (the link to the reference that someone posted seems to have been deleted) purported that 51% of sales and, consequently, sales taxes came from people not living in the county. I should have said "more" or "the majority." I see no way that the majority of sales in Union County come from those not living in Union County. The people that have second houses in the county aren't paying sales taxes, but property taxes, on those properties. Those that come up on the weekends buy mostly groceries, etc., and eat out. They don't consistently buy the more expensive items and not nearly the quantity of other items over an entire year that generate sales taxes as those that live hear year round.

By the way, only a few (Union County was one of those) that showed anywhere near the 50% mark for revenue from out-of-county people. All the others, including tourist towns, seem to be reasonable. Wonder why the disparity? Hmmmm.
Here You Go

Dahlonega, GA

#68 Jan 20, 2013
bogus my politicians wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry. I should not have said "most" when the study (the link to the reference that someone posted seems to have been deleted) purported that 51% of sales and, consequently, sales taxes came from people not living in the county. I should have said "more" or "the majority." I see no way that the majority of sales in Union County come from those not living in Union County. The people that have second houses in the county aren't paying sales taxes, but property taxes, on those properties. Those that come up on the weekends buy mostly groceries, etc., and eat out. They don't consistently buy the more expensive items and not nearly the quantity of other items over an entire year that generate sales taxes as those that live hear year round.
By the way, only a few (Union County was one of those) that showed anywhere near the 50% mark for revenue from out-of-county people. All the others, including tourist towns, seem to be reasonable. Wonder why the disparity? Hmmmm.
I'm curious about what you mean when you say that "The people that have second houses in the county aren't paying sales taxes, but property taxes..." They pay sales tax just like any locals would on what they buy in the county. Did you mean to say that?
Mayor

Canton, GA

#69 Jan 20, 2013
I do not trust the paper. It was bad with Cooper and much worst with Duncan. Topix is the best place to get your info.
progress being made wrote:
Due to the honest back and forth of information, we begin to see a lot of facts emerge, and also this board acts as a nice sounding board to see what misconceptions there are.
The problem is that neither the elected officials, nor the newspaper can be trusted to disseminate the facts. And "facts" coming from public officials are suspect, especially when they are reported by the Newspaper.
The question is: How do these factss get fact checked, organized into something the average citizen can understand, and then distributed.
This thread is the perfect example of how Topix could/should be used by citizens.
1) It admittedly allows a little venting
2) It allows misconceptions to be publicly aired (and often it isn't evil or intentional - just misconception) and more importantly IDENTIFIED as an area that is perhaps widepread and needs clarifying in the public mind.
3) It allows real facts to emerge.
4) It quickly brings together people of diverse knowledge and experience and allows for a broad spectrum of ideas and hopefully solutions to be aired.
THEN it hits a brick wall. The information stays here in the eyes of a relatively small percentage of the overall population.
SOLUTION: A group needs to take responsibility for organizing and publicly distributing the facts and ideas via a website, catalog, Newsletter, Newspaper, Info FLyers, etc. i.e take it off topix and out into the streets so to speak.
bogus by politicians

Dahlonega, GA

#70 Jan 20, 2013
Here You Go wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm curious about what you mean when you say that "The people that have second houses in the county aren't paying sales taxes, but property taxes..." They pay sales tax just like any locals would on what they buy in the county. Did you mean to say that?
I responded to a post about second-house owners and paying sales taxes. My intent was to say that taxes relating to houses are property taxes. And, by that, I was implying that ownership with wintertime occupancy doesn't tip the scales toward 51% of the sales being from those from out of the county.
Informed Opinion

Bonita Springs, FL

#71 Jan 20, 2013
bogus my politicians wrote:
<quoted text>I'm sorry. I should not have said "most" when the study (the link to the reference that someone posted seems to have been deleted) purported that 51% of sales and, consequently, sales taxes came from people not living in the county. I should have said "more" or "the majority." I see no way that the majority of sales in Union County come from those not living in Union County. The people that have second houses in the county aren't paying sales taxes, but property taxes, on those properties. Those that come up on the weekends buy mostly groceries, etc., and eat out. They don't consistently buy the more expensive items and not nearly the quantity of other items over an entire year that generate sales taxes as those that live hear year round.

By the way, only a few (Union County was one of those) that showed anywhere near the 50% mark for revenue from out-of-county people. All the others, including tourist towns, seem to be reasonable. Wonder why the disparity? Hmmmm.
You raise some very good points.

Seems we agree:
- seasonal residents pay real estate taxes at the same rate as full time residents;
- seasonal residents are not here as much as full time residents and as a result utilize services funded by those taxes at a much lower rate;
- seasonal residents pay some sales taxes;
- full time residents pay more in sales taxes than seasonal residents. but a lower per person contribution.

We aren't so far apart.

You raise an intriguing issue regarding revenue for out of county folks and I'd be interested on your take on why that is.
answer

Dahlonega, GA

#72 Jan 20, 2013
That is not true. Those of us who live here year round usually buy vehicles locally which definitely brings alot of sales tax to the coffers. If by chance the part timers buy a car here they pay sales tax in whatever state their drivers license says they live in. Since our houses are lived in year round it means we have to make more trips to ACE Hardware for light bulbs and water faucets. And since our appliances are used more and wear faster we spend more money at places like Sears and Shawns buying new ones.
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
but a lower per person contribution.
Informed Opinion

Bonita Springs, FL

#73 Jan 20, 2013
answer wrote:
<quoted text>That is not true. Those of us who live here year round usually buy vehicles locally which definitely brings alot of sales tax to the coffers. If by chance the part timers buy a car here they pay sales tax in whatever state their drivers license says they live in. Since our houses are lived in year round it means we have to make more trips to ACE Hardware for light bulbs and water faucets. And since our appliances are used more and wear faster we spend more money at places like Sears and Shawns buying new ones.
It seems we agree.

Full time residents per person spend more locally and so pay more sales tax than seasonal residents.

Seasonal residents are here less and so pay less in sales taxes per person than full time residents.

I think we're in agreement on that.

Seasonal residents pay the same property taxes, yet because they primarily reside elsewhere, their kids aren't in Union County Schools, they aren't here to use the hospital, ambulances, law enforcement, library, roads, and utilities, etc. as much as full time residents, so they pay the same in taxes and use less services.

I don't think you disagree on that.

So it would seem the only issue is if seasonal residents and tourists pay enough in sales taxes to make it worth using sales taxes to get their money via sales taxes.

Maybe on that we can disagree agreeably ?
10percenttax

Dawsonville, GA

#74 Jan 20, 2013
answer wrote:
That is not true. Those of us who live here year round usually buy vehicles locally which definitely brings alot of sales tax to the coffers. If by chance the part timers buy a car here they pay sales tax in whatever state their drivers license says they live in. Since our houses are lived in year round it means we have to make more trips to ACE Hardware for light bulbs and water faucets. And since our appliances are used more and wear faster we spend more money at places like Sears and Shawns buying new ones.<quoted text>
This link shows visitors or tourists pay 10% of any sales taxes collected in Union county, The rest is paid by locals.
See page 53.
http://www.georgia.org/SiteCollectionDocument...
10percentTax

Dawsonville, GA

#75 Jan 20, 2013
answer wrote:
That is not true. Those of us who live here year round usually buy vehicles locally which definitely brings alot of sales tax to the coffers. If by chance the part timers buy a car here they pay sales tax in whatever state their drivers license says they live in. Since our houses are lived in year round it means we have to make more trips to ACE Hardware for light bulbs and water faucets. And since our appliances are used more and wear faster we spend more money at places like Sears and Shawns buying new ones.<quoted text>

this link shows visitors or tourists pay 10% of sales taxes in Union County, the rest is paid by locals.

see page 53,
http://www.georgia.org/SiteCollectionDocument...
Informed Opinion

Sunapee, NH

#76 Jan 21, 2013
10percenttax wrote:
<quoted text>This link shows visitors or tourists pay 10% of any sales taxes collected in Union county, The rest is paid by locals.
See page 53.
http://www.georgia.org/SiteCollectionDocument...
Great post.

It confirms what has been said by most, that tourists and visitors contribute, but contribute less, than residents to sales tax revenue.
I believe it indicates "travelers" spend $19,500,000 in Union County each year, and pay $660,000 in sales tax.

The original question on which folks disagree- whether that is sufficient to support maintaining a sales tax on us all to reduce the demands on other tax sources - remains;

And I'd ask - how do we get more tax revenue out of them folks ?

Made my day to see actual facts presented on TOPIX.

Informed Opinion

Sunapee, NH

#77 Jan 21, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>Great post.

It confirms what has been said by most, that tourists and visitors contribute, but contribute less, than residents to sales tax revenue.
I believe it indicates "travelers" spend $19,500,000 in Union County each year, and pay $660,000 in sales tax.

The original question on which folks disagree- whether that is sufficient to support maintaining a sales tax on us all to reduce the demands on other tax sources - remains;

And I'd ask - how do we get more tax revenue out of them folks ?

Made my day to see actual facts presented on TOPIX.
I forgot to ask - does Union County benefit from sales taxes paid by travelers in other counties that participate in the regional tax ?

If a tourist in another county buys a painting, and pays sales tax, does a portion of those tax revenues flow to. benefit Union County ?

The "regional" aspect of this thing is interesting.
bogus my politicians

Dahlonega, GA

#78 Jan 21, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
You raise an intriguing issue regarding revenue for out of county folks and I'd be interested on your take on why that is.
I'm too cynical to answer that. lol.
I do believe, whatever is the realistic percentage from out-fo-county folks, it will less once Wal-mart is built in Blue Ridge.
Informed Opinion

United States

#79 Jan 21, 2013
bogus my politicians wrote:
<quoted text>I'm too cynical to answer that. lol.
I do believe, whatever is the realistic percentage from out-fo-county folks, it will less once Wal-mart is built in Blue Ridge.
Your take on that is better than mine I'm sure. Just wondering.

I am worried that the advent of Internet shopping, eBay, Amazon, etc. are eventually going to destroy small business and local sales tax revenues.

This Christmas, my wife,(who travels a lot), ordered the majority of Christmas gifts using her iPhone Amazon app.

the app automatically shipped the stuff to the cabin, automatically billed the credit card, which is automatically paid by direct payment from the checking account.

She loved it, I hated it, no "Christmas Story" family shopping at all; less business for local stores; and sales tax revenues.

Wondered what your forecast would be now that Internet controls the world ?

Thank God they can't provide hot French Toast on Amazon.
Clueless

Dawsonville, GA

#80 Jan 21, 2013
10percentTax wrote:
<quoted text>
this link shows visitors or tourists pay 10% of sales taxes in Union County, the rest is paid by locals.
see page 53,

http://www.georgia.org/SiteCollectionDocument...
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post.
It confirms what has been said .....Made my day to see actual facts presented on TOPIX.
Obviously you both skipped 3rd Grade in Union Elementary. The numbers from page 53 say "0.10%, not "10%". They say "0.10%". Here's a quick remedial math lesson for you two:

10%= ten percent = 1 out of every ten

0.10%= 1/10 of 1 percent = 1 out of 1000

Would you two geniuses care to go back and review the document and try again to decipher what the report is saying? I know - but I am not sure either of you has the capacity to figure it out.

Can anyone here interpret what the report is saying, and to be precise, the Union County numbers from that table are NOT on page 53, but are on page 57, "Union" being at the end of the alphabet and towards the end of the chart.
ME II

Dahlonega, GA

#81 Jan 21, 2013
Clueless wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Obviously you both skipped 3rd Grade in Union Elementary. The numbers from page 53 say "0.10%, not "10%". They say "0.10%". Here's a quick remedial math lesson for you two:
10%= ten percent = 1 out of every ten
0.10%= 1/10 of 1 percent = 1 out of 1000
Would you two geniuses care to go back and review the document and try again to decipher what the report is saying? I know - but I am not sure either of you has the capacity to figure it out.
Can anyone here interpret what the report is saying, and to be precise, the Union County numbers from that table are NOT on page 53, but are on page 57, "Union" being at the end of the alphabet and towards the end of the chart.
I don't know or care what it says, but the information about Union WAS on page 53, smart*ss.

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