1% sales tax for board of education

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my view

Dahlonega, GA

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#42
Jan 19, 2013
 

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Concerned wrote:
I understand the resistance to taxes but it doesn't justify distorting the information. Keep in mind this is not new taxes but a renewal of an existing tax.
The Governor said that the GA 400 toll that recently passed was a new one. The original toll expired, as required by law.

The E-SPLOST legally expires. Therefore, it's not a "renewal." It's a "new" tax. Also, we all know that overruns are a common practice when politicians "forecast" costs. They underestimate publically, not privately, to get something approved.

Maybe the original post was intended to convey that the tax was not an "additional" tax beyond what already is in place.
political promises

Dawsonville, GA

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#43
Jan 19, 2013
 

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The Original ESPLOST was sold to the public as something to be ENACTED FOR A SPECIFIC TIME FRAME, and to ACCOMPLISH SPECIFIC GOALS.

INSTEAD, they took the inflated estimates they promised, and BORROWED ADVANCE FUNDS, racked up INTEREST NOT DISCLOSED IN ORIGINAL DISCUSSIONS WITH VOTERS (over $2 Million worth), DID NOT ACCOMPLISH THE MAJORITY OF THE STATED GOALS, and now the only thing they have left to show for it is a big MASSIVE DEBT that the BOE is required to keep making payments on.

This is a NEW ESPLOST. That is why there must be a vote. The OLD ESPLOST IS OVER.

Before it's over it'll be spun this way and that, and the line of lies will stretch to the moon, but the facts will still be true.

The only question is whether or not the FACTS will be distributed to enough voters in a compelling enough way to convince the voters of the truth of those facts. Or does the merry go round keep spinning.
joe

Dawsonville, GA

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#44
Jan 19, 2013
 

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political promises wrote:
The Original ESPLOST was sold to the public as something to be ENACTED FOR A SPECIFIC TIME FRAME, and to ACCOMPLISH SPECIFIC GOALS.
INSTEAD, they took the inflated estimates they promised, and BORROWED ADVANCE FUNDS, racked up INTEREST NOT DISCLOSED IN ORIGINAL DISCUSSIONS WITH VOTERS (over $2 Million worth), DID NOT ACCOMPLISH THE MAJORITY OF THE STATED GOALS, and now the only thing they have left to show for it is a big MASSIVE DEBT that the BOE is required to keep making payments on.
This is a NEW ESPLOST. That is why there must be a vote. The OLD ESPLOST IS OVER.
Before it's over it'll be spun this way and that, and the line of lies will stretch to the moon, but the facts will still be true.
The only question is whether or not the FACTS will be distributed to enough voters in a compelling enough way to convince the voters of the truth of those facts. Or does the merry go round keep spinning.
sounds like that 7 million dollar deficit on the county audit for the splost. a deficit is a deficit, and the elected officials just keep covering it up.
political promises

Dawsonville, GA

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#45
Jan 19, 2013
 

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PS... the ESPLOST had a definitive timeline. The ongoing payments on the ADVANCE LOANS that were made stretch way past the ending date.

ESPLOST ENDS....
PAYMENT OBLIGATIONS GO ON FOR A GENERATION MORE...

You're still paying long after the time frame agreed upon by the Voters.

Now they want to compound the problem, make it worse, rack up more debt, dig the hole deeper, make more lies, increase the odds the County goes bankrupt. Increase the odds that at some point, the only way out is to instigate HUGE PROPERTY TAX INCREASES.

Don't believe me? In the end, its basically the ability to raise revenue via Property Taxes that guarantee the debt.

Read the existing Bonds. It is in black and white what guarantees the Debt. By continuing these votes, you are giving thema blank check to basically mortgage all the land in the county - and you don't even know it. But that IS how this works.

How much did they borrow?$15,000,000???
It's been spent. You owe the bills now.
political promises

Dawsonville, GA

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#46
Jan 19, 2013
 

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PS... they are asking for more. People need to know how this works. Get copies of the Bonds.
Informed Opinion

United States

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#47
Jan 19, 2013
 

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bogus by politicians wrote:
<quoted text>"Study" or no study, does anyone really, really think that most of the revenue comes from tourists or second-home people when they come up on the weekends and in the summers while we locals are hear year round and purchase many more big-ticket items then those that just pass through and buy milk and bread? Wow, I've got a bunch of Brooklyn Bridges to sell.

Also, there'll be a lot less non-Union Country shoppers buying in the county when Wal-mart builds the Blue Ridge store.
Just re-read my post.

Does it say "most" of the revenue ? I don't see that I the post, but hey, I miss things all the time.

Folks in Union County are sitting on two kinds of gold mines:
- cabins owned by seasonal residents who pay full time taxes and use part-time services;
and
- visitors who bring their wallets to stay, shop, dine, and enjoy the mountains.

We get excess tax money from seasonal residents from property taxes without trying.

We get excess funds from visitors and tourists by transferring the tax load from other sources to taxes paid by tourists, visitors and part-time residents,(sales taxes).

The extra sales taxes collected subsidizes the costs of government services for all.

Just my conclusion.

But hey, reasonable people can disagree agreeably.
the facts

Dawsonville, GA

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#48
Jan 19, 2013
 
The following is aan excerpt from Page 10 of the $15,000,000 Bond issued to obtain ADVANCE FUNDING and for which the bill is coming due....

******from page 10**********

SECURITY AND SOURCES OF PAYMENT FOR THE BONDS

GENERAL OBLIGATIONS. The Bonds will constitute the legal, valid, binding and enforceable direct general obligations of the School District. The principal of and interest on the Bonds are payable FIRST from the proceeds of the Sales Tax and TO THE EXTENT THE MONEYS FROM THE SALES TAX ARE INSUFFICIENT TO MAKE SUCH PAYMENTS, FROM AN AD VALOREM TAX, WITHOUT LIMITATION AS TO RATE OR AMOUNT, TO BE LEVIED UPON ALL PROPERTY WITHIN THE COUNTY subject to taxation for school board purposes, incIuding real and personal property, privately owned utilities, motor vehicles and mobile homes.

******end excerpt**********

ALL the property in the county has effectively been mortgaged against payment for these bonds - and they want to compound the situation and make it worse, in order to get their butts out of a sling they have created for themselves.

I call this the coming "Public Foreclosure Tidalwave" that is looming in America.
Freak Boy

Dahlonega, GA

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#49
Jan 19, 2013
 

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the facts wrote:
The following is aan excerpt from Page 10 of the $15,000,000 Bond issued to obtain ADVANCE FUNDING and for which the bill is coming due....
******from page 10**********
SECURITY AND SOURCES OF PAYMENT FOR THE BONDS
GENERAL OBLIGATIONS. The Bonds will constitute the legal, valid, binding and enforceable direct general obligations of the School District. The principal of and interest on the Bonds are payable FIRST from the proceeds of the Sales Tax and TO THE EXTENT THE MONEYS FROM THE SALES TAX ARE INSUFFICIENT TO MAKE SUCH PAYMENTS, FROM AN AD VALOREM TAX, WITHOUT LIMITATION AS TO RATE OR AMOUNT, TO BE LEVIED UPON ALL PROPERTY WITHIN THE COUNTY subject to taxation for school board purposes, incIuding real and personal property, privately owned utilities, motor vehicles and mobile homes.
******end excerpt**********
ALL the property in the county has effectively been mortgaged against payment for these bonds - and they want to compound the situation and make it worse, in order to get their butts out of a sling they have created for themselves.
I call this the coming "Public Foreclosure Tidalwave" that is looming in America.
See, that's how it works. If you want to have school buildings and educational programs, you have to tax people. Those things don't just materialize out of thin air.

Oh, I know. All you mouthy, good for nothing Floridiots want everything for nothing. Sorry, I forgot.
the facts

Dawsonville, GA

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#50
Jan 19, 2013
 

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Not from Florida. Don't own land in Florida. I don't even vacation in Florida.

Care to offer up another theory Freak Boy?
Just Mike

Blairsville, GA

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#51
Jan 19, 2013
 

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the facts wrote:
The following is aan excerpt from Page 10 of the $15,000,000 Bond issued to obtain ADVANCE FUNDING and for which the bill is coming due....
The $15 Million general education bond issue has really NOTHING to do with with ESPLOST projects or 1% sales tax revenue related thereto. The document at this link is very informative and reasonably easy to understand:

http://168.8.72.8/menus/Schedu le_4_2012.pdf

Note that only about $150 Thousand was budgeted as payment to the "general obligation" fund over the five year term ending March 31, 2013. Again- the ESPLOST accounting is "self contained" and SEPARATE from the "general" education fund and its huge bunch of problems/issues.

I will say, however, that one of the footnotes in the document seems to say that over $2 million in interest was incurred by the "general" fund to advance monies for construction projects in ESPLOST. How that interest expense doesn't have to be included in originally scheduled ESPLOST project costs is beyond me... THAT is BS.

Finally- the total ESPLOST budget wasn't even CLOSE to over-spent as of June, 2012- nor will it be by March, 2013 (its currently scheduled end). The "deficit" referred to in the notes section refers, I believe, to budgeted amounts not yet spent (and mostly WON'T be). There aren't any references in the document as to total $ raised by the 1% ESPLOST through that date, but the law says they CANNOT overspend revenues raised during the five year period. I'll assume the county is in compliance. Even if not, the next (renewed, whatever!) ESPLOST to be voted on in March CANNOT use its revenue to pay any prior obligations whatsoever- only for the new projects listed.

“All we ask is to be left alone”

Since: Feb 12

Blairsville, GA

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#52
Jan 19, 2013
 
First I admit that I do not possess the knowledge to know, or assess the reality and facts pertaining to the past or to any potential E-SPLOST referendum(s).

Thus, sensibly appears to suggest the following course of action. A plan of action, to include those being prominent in the defeat of T-SPLOST within Union County, certainly,is of importance.

Those who participated in that effort were precise, astute, and convincing with fact based arguments.

It appears the first hurtle worthy of debate is to establish; the desired purpose(s) and need of future project(s) approval and usefulness; audit and analyses regarding appropriation or misappropriations of past E-SPLOST project expenditures and approved project completions or lack thereof; and determines future project needs with regard to necessity, practicality, requirement, limitation, funding and level of transparency, and/or other construction, completion, and utilization concerns.

Also, it appears important to recognize that if and when alternative taxing revenue source(s) may suggest negligence and/or abuse by those charged with the custody of that funding, either by appropriation, construction, bids, or timely completion, it sometimes becomes necessary for those taxing avenues to be withdrawn until more confidence can be entrusted to new creditable overseers.

Leaadership, for this effort, needs to emerge NOW.
seeking the facts

Dawsonville, GA

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#53
Jan 19, 2013
 
Just Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
The $15 Million general education bond issue has really NOTHING to do with with ESPLOST projects or 1% sales tax revenue related thereto......

http://168.8.72.8/menus/Schedu le_4_2012.pdf
TWO COMMENTS:
1) Your link didn't work. Try this.
http://168.8.72.8/menus/Schedu le_4_2012.pdf

2) ON PAGE 10 OF THE ACTUAL BOND IT STATES:

"The principal of and interest on the Bonds are payable FIRST from the proceeds of the Sales Tax....."

THAT LANGUAGE CONTRADICTS WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER:

"The $15 Million general education bond issue has really NOTHING to do with with ESPLOST projects or 1% sales tax revenue related thereto.."

MY QUESTION IS:

If the Language in the Bond is not referencing "ESPLOST projects or 1% Sales Tax", what tax is it referencing?
seeking the facts

Dawsonville, GA

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#54
Jan 19, 2013
 
http://168.8.72.8/menus/Schedu le_4_2012.pdf
* keeps putting space inbetween the u & l in "Schedule". Paste link in URL and then delete space
Just Mike

Blairsville, GA

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#55
Jan 19, 2013
 

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seeking the facts wrote:
<quoted text>MY QUESTION IS:

If the Language in the Bond is not referencing "ESPLOST projects or 1% Sales Tax", what tax is it referencing?
The GA STATE government "mandates" 4% of the total 7% sales tax collected in UC.(Note: food grocery items and prescription drugs are exempt from this 4% portion, which is why your sales receipt shows only 3% sales tax on that gallon of milk). Remember... ALL sales tax monies collected by all stores in GA is sent to the state DOR. The state mandatory sales tax rate of 4%(along with other "county" sales taxes) is collected by DOR on behalf of the county where it was collected/paid. The state then sends back that 4%(minus their "collection fee") to the county... and it is from THIS sales tax received back from the state that General Purpose Municipal Revenue Bonds (the $15 Million in UC's case) are repaid, and what is referred to in Section 10 as you cite. Essentially, UC borrowed money against FUTURE sales tax collections, ie, the "4%" money mandated by state law. The wisdom, or lack thereof in borrowing this money is another discussion.

But wait... EACH county in GA can "elect" to add up to 3% MORE in sales tax (in specific increments of 1%) which are called Special Local Option Sales Taxes, or SPLOST's. There are 5 different types of these, one of which is the ESPLOST. Generally, SPLOSTs can only be used for capital project funding like new buildings, improvements, facilities and such pursuant to specific lists for a limited time as determined by the County Commissioner, Board of Ed. or other designated panel- then ratified by voters via referendum. These revenues MUST be spent on the projects indicated and can NOT be saved or redirected to debts incurred as a result of previous, expired SPLOST's.

If the ESPLOST isn't approved/renewed in March, then the (future) capital expenditure items to be specifically designated for the continued 1% tax must either be scrapped or, more likely, be done ANYWAY... only with property tax monies. We save nearly NOTHING regarding current county indebtedness... but whoopee, we save a penny per buck spent at the store (ok, on the utility bills too.)

My opinion... kill the OTHER 2% SPLOSTs when they expire, and demand NOW to know exactly WHAT projects are included in the next ESPLOST to get rid of any unnecessary BS projects in in it. Make the BOE is VERY SPECIFIC! No artificial turf or $5 million gyms for the 100 students in Suches. Spend it better, or don't spend it at all.
Mayor

Cornelia, GA

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#56
Jan 19, 2013
 

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We can not trust the current officials to spend and tax us.

Look at the silly stuff they have bought and built with tax money.

It really is that simple.

I will not for for any more taxes.

Everyone seems to think it not real money if tourist and part time owners fund worthless projects. In reality locals/full time residents pay more than 60% of all local sales tax.
Just Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
The GA STATE government "mandates" 4% of the total 7% sales tax collected in UC.(Note: food grocery items and prescription drugs are exempt from this 4% portion, which is why your sales receipt shows only 3% sales tax on that gallon of milk). Remember... ALL sales tax monies collected by all stores in GA is sent to the state DOR. The state mandatory sales tax rate of 4%(along with other "county" sales taxes) is collected by DOR on behalf of the county where it was collected/paid. The state then sends back that 4%(minus their "collection fee") to the county... and it is from THIS sales tax received back from the state that General Purpose Municipal Revenue Bonds (the $15 Million in UC's case) are repaid, and what is referred to in Section 10 as you cite. Essentially, UC borrowed money against FUTURE sales tax collections, ie, the "4%" money mandated by state law. The wisdom, or lack thereof in borrowing this money is another discussion.
But wait... EACH county in GA can "elect" to add up to 3% MORE in sales tax (in specific increments of 1%) which are called Special Local Option Sales Taxes, or SPLOST's. There are 5 different types of these, one of which is the ESPLOST. Generally, SPLOSTs can only be used for capital project funding like new buildings, improvements, facilities and such pursuant to specific lists for a limited time as determined by the County Commissioner, Board of Ed. or other designated panel- then ratified by voters via referendum. These revenues MUST be spent on the projects indicated and can NOT be saved or redirected to debts incurred as a result of previous, expired SPLOST's.
If the ESPLOST isn't approved/renewed in March, then the (future) capital expenditure items to be specifically designated for the continued 1% tax must either be scrapped or, more likely, be done ANYWAY... only with property tax monies. We save nearly NOTHING regarding current county indebtedness... but whoopee, we save a penny per buck spent at the store (ok, on the utility bills too.)
My opinion... kill the OTHER 2% SPLOSTs when they expire, and demand NOW to know exactly WHAT projects are included in the next ESPLOST to get rid of any unnecessary BS projects in in it. Make the BOE is VERY SPECIFIC! No artificial turf or $5 million gyms for the 100 students in Suches. Spend it better, or don't spend it at all.
FolklsThat DontKnowTaxes

Dawsonville, GA

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#57
Jan 19, 2013
 
Just Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
The GA STATE government "mandates" 4% of the total 7% sales tax collected in UC.(Note: food grocery items and prescription drugs are exempt from this 4% portion, which is why your sales receipt shows only 3% sales tax on that gallon of milk). Remember... ALL sales tax monies collected by all stores in GA is sent to the state DOR. The state mandatory sales tax rate of 4%(along with other "county" sales taxes) is collected by DOR on behalf of the county where it was collected/paid. The state then sends back that 4%(minus their "collection fee") to the county... and it is from THIS sales tax received back from the state that General Purpose Municipal Revenue Bonds (the $15 Million in UC's case) are repaid, and what is referred to in Section 10 as you cite. Essentially, UC borrowed money against FUTURE sales tax collections, ie, the "4%" money mandated by state law. The wisdom, or lack thereof in borrowing this money is another discussion.
But wait... EACH county in GA can "elect" to add up to 3% MORE in sales tax (in specific increments of 1%) which are called Special Local Option Sales Taxes, or SPLOST's. There are 5 different types of these, one of which is the ESPLOST. Generally, SPLOSTs can only be used for capital project funding like new buildings, improvements, facilities and such pursuant to specific lists for a limited time as determined by the County Commissioner, Board of Ed. or other designated panel- then ratified by voters via referendum. These revenues MUST be spent on the projects indicated and can NOT be saved or redirected to debts incurred as a result of previous, expired SPLOST's.
If the ESPLOST isn't approved/renewed in March, then the (future) capital expenditure items to be specifically designated for the continued 1% tax must either be scrapped or, more likely, be done ANYWAY... only with property tax monies. We save nearly NOTHING regarding current county indebtedness... but whoopee, we save a penny per buck spent at the store (ok, on the utility bills too.)
My opinion... kill the OTHER 2% SPLOSTs when they expire, and demand NOW to know exactly WHAT projects are included in the next ESPLOST to get rid of any unnecessary BS projects in in it. Make the BOE is VERY SPECIFIC! No artificial turf or $5 million gyms for the 100 students in Suches. Spend it better, or don't spend it at all.
This post is the most confused post I have ever seen on sale taxes.
The poster must live in another State, for surely he can't live in Union County and be this confused about sale taxes in Georgia.
The 4% tax goes to the State. The 1% splost tax goes to the local county governments. The 1% esplost taxes goes to the county school system. The 1% Lost tax goes to reduce property taxes.
Add the taxes up and it equals 7% on the dollar.
The State sends back the 3%, not the 4%. State gets 4%, Counties get 3%.
The law does NOT allow more than the 3% tax at present to be increased, nor does it allow it to run forever, the voters decide if they want to keep giving elected officials the money.
From what I've read at the link provided, the school board has over estimated the amount that would be collected, they have spent what they have collected on some frivolous items, and now want the taxpayers to bail them out of their mess with a re-newal of the sales tax. Sounds like an Obama plan to me.
And this statement takes the CAKE award,
"EACH county in GA can "elect" to add up to 3% MORE in sales tax (in specific increments of 1%) which are called Special Local Option Sales Taxes, or SPLOST's. There are 5 different types of these, one of which is the ESPLOST."
There are 3 different types of county special sale taxes; splost, esplost, and lost.
This poster is real good for putting out mis-information. Maybe he works for the school board.

“All we ask is to be left alone”

Since: Feb 12

Blairsville, GA

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#58
Jan 19, 2013
 

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FolklsThat DontKnowTaxes wrote:
<quoted text>
This post is the most confused post I have ever seen on sale taxes.
The poster must live in another State, for surely he can't live in Union County and be this confused about sale taxes in Georgia.
The 4% tax goes to the State. The 1% splost tax goes to the local county governments. The 1% esplost taxes goes to the county school system. The 1% Lost tax goes to reduce property taxes.
Add the taxes up and it equals 7% on the dollar.
The State sends back the 3%, not the 4%. State gets 4%, Counties get 3%.
The law does NOT allow more than the 3% tax at present to be increased, nor does it allow it to run forever, the voters decide if they want to keep giving elected officials the money.
From what I've read at the link provided, the school board has over estimated the amount that would be collected, they have spent what they have collected on some frivolous items, and now want the taxpayers to bail them out of their mess with a re-newal of the sales tax. Sounds like an Obama plan to me.
And this statement takes the CAKE award,
"EACH county in GA can "elect" to add up to 3% MORE in sales tax (in specific increments of 1%) which are called Special Local Option Sales Taxes, or SPLOST's. There are 5 different types of these, one of which is the ESPLOST."
There are 3 different types of county special sale taxes; splost, esplost, and lost.
This poster is real good for putting out mis-information. Maybe he works for the school board.
Now thatís what I was seeking - simple, precise, articulate, and reliable information.

We simply donít have the time to waste upon unreliable misinformation, nor debate upon the intention thereof.

Thanks for narrowing the focus to the facts relating to resolving and making an intelligent decision upon the E-SPLOST.

I hope that you, and the others I eluded to in an earlier post, will utilize this thread to provide reliable information.

I trust efforts will be taken to have this issue fully debated before the community, before a vote is required.
progress being made

Dawsonville, GA

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#59
Jan 20, 2013
 

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Due to the honest back and forth of information, we begin to see a lot of facts emerge, and also this board acts as a nice sounding board to see what misconceptions there are.

The problem is that neither the elected officials, nor the newspaper can be trusted to disseminate the facts. And "facts" coming from public officials are suspect, especially when they are reported by the Newspaper.

The question is: How do these factss get fact checked, organized into something the average citizen can understand, and then distributed.

This thread is the perfect example of how Topix could/should be used by citizens.

1) It admittedly allows a little venting

2) It allows misconceptions to be publicly aired (and often it isn't evil or intentional - just misconception) and more importantly IDENTIFIED as an area that is perhaps widepread and needs clarifying in the public mind.

3) It allows real facts to emerge.

4) It quickly brings together people of diverse knowledge and experience and allows for a broad spectrum of ideas and hopefully solutions to be aired.

THEN it hits a brick wall. The information stays here in the eyes of a relatively small percentage of the overall population.

SOLUTION: A group needs to take responsibility for organizing and publicly distributing the facts and ideas via a website, catalog, Newsletter, Newspaper, Info FLyers, etc. i.e take it off topix and out into the streets so to speak.
Bored

Dawsonville, GA

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#60
Jan 20, 2013
 
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Just re-read my post.
Does it say "most" of the revenue ? I don't see that I the post, but hey, I miss things all the time.
Folks in Union County are sitting on two kinds of gold mines:
- cabins owned by seasonal residents who pay full time taxes and use part-time services;
and
- visitors who bring their wallets to stay, shop, dine, and enjoy the mountains.
We get excess tax money from seasonal residents from property taxes without trying.
We get excess funds from visitors and tourists by transferring the tax load from other sources to taxes paid by tourists, visitors and part-time residents,(sales taxes).
The extra sales taxes collected subsidizes the costs of government services for all.
Just my conclusion.
But hey, reasonable people can disagree agreeably.
Boring.
Informed Opinion

United States

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#61
Jan 20, 2013
 

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Bored wrote:
<quoted text>Boring.
As long as it's interesting enough to keep you coming back, and back, and back. I'm doing OK.

Thanks.

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