Australia's model gun laws

Apr 28, 2007 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Monterey County Herald

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms”

The United States could learn from Australia's response to that tragedy. Australian Prime Minister John Howard, an anti-gun control conservative, switched his views. via Monterey County Herald

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give up

Australia

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#1
Apr 28, 2007
 

Judged:

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Ya may as well pi$$ into the wind talking sense to bush and his cronies.

Since: Mar 07

Noble Park, Australia

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#2
Apr 30, 2007
 

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give up wrote:
Ya may as well pi$$ into the wind talking sense to bush and his cronies.
Very very true, I have come to realise my attempts to have any kind of discussion on firearms with Americans on the gun forums is basically pissing into the wind, and I’m not even trying to tell them to give up firearms, just trying to get some understanding about why they feel the need to own enough firepower to wipe out a school.

But after much study I have come to the realisation that the murder rate in the USA has nothing to actually do with firearms, basically it’s just because Americans are Americans it’s their society and their culture, it’s just the way they are.

Obviously not all of them but a significant enough proportion to have the highest murder rate in the western developed world.

Actually they also beat many third world countries and most of the Asian countries as well.
keltec 9mm

United States

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#3
Apr 30, 2007
 
"The 1994 weapons ban prohibited the possession and sale of gun magazines with 10 or more rounds. Cho is thought to have used 15-round magazines, which allowed him to fire a horrifying 170 rounds in 9 deadly minutes."

Just to clear up a bit of misinformation.

The Clinton Assault weapons ban only prohibited the manufacture and importation of high capacity magazines. Private ownership of high capacity magazines was not affected. Magazines present in the US before the ban were allowed to be bought, owned, and sold like any other commodity albeit at a much higher price now that supply was "limited".
keltec 9mm

United States

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#4
Apr 30, 2007
 
Hate to bust your bubble, you seem like such sincere gun controllers.

Australia violent crime rate
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi115...

“HOLD FAST”

Since: Apr 07

Perth

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#5
Apr 30, 2007
 
I have to agree with pessimist there seems to be a Tendency when faced with a Legitimate argument to not count counter piont but to abuse. I no its not all Americans but there is a large percent
keltec 9mm

United States

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#6
Apr 30, 2007
 
So if we remove the guns the murder rate dramatically decreases, correct?

"Norway, with the highest gun ownership rate in Western Europe, has the lowest murder rate—far below England's. The only European nation that bans all guns, Luxembourg, has the highest murder rate (except for Russia): 30 percent higher than the U.S. and ten times that of gun-dense Norway."

or incorrect?

Since: Mar 07

Noble Park, Australia

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#7
May 1, 2007
 
keltec 9mm wrote:
So if we remove the guns the murder rate dramatically decreases, correct?
"Norway, with the highest gun ownership rate in Western Europe, has the lowest murder rate—far below England's. The only European nation that bans all guns, Luxembourg, has the highest murder rate (except for Russia): 30 percent higher than the U.S. and ten times that of gun-dense Norway."
or incorrect?
Once again I will state that I have no interest in convincing anyone to give up their guns (I have stated this so many times on so many forums but I expect it will be ignored here as well and I will attract many many insults for having the gall to ask questions), my interest ends with trying to understand why people feel a need to own assault weapons etc and high murder rates.
With the Norway question check out their firearms laws, training, social and cultural attitudes to firearms and compare them to America and you will find huge differences; look at other countries with high firearm ownership and low murder rates (e.g. Switzerland) and you will also find many of the same differences.

Since: Mar 07

Noble Park, Australia

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#8
May 1, 2007
 
keltec 9mm wrote:
Hate to bust your bubble, you seem like such sincere gun controllers.
Australia violent crime rate
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi115...
Australia has always had tougher gun laws than the U.S.- despite its own frontier history and its cultural similarities to the United States. The gun homicide rate in the U.S. is about 15 times that of Australia and a total murder rate about five times that of Australia.
HUH

United States

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#9
May 1, 2007
 
Pessimist:
With the Norway question check out their firearms laws, training, social and cultural attitudes to firearms and compare them to America and you will find huge differences; look at other countries with high firearm ownership and low murder rates (e.g. Switzerland) and you will also find many of the same differences.>>>> >>>>>>> >

In essence you agree, it is the culture not the firearm per se, which is merely the point I was trying to make.
Keltec 9mm

United States

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#10
May 1, 2007
 
Sorry ,used the wrong ID. No doubt crime by firearms is down in Australia but violent crime has escalated. The violent death rate in Japan, which has strict gun control, is on a par with the US because they have found other ways to die violently.
Daniel

Knoxville, TN

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#11
May 1, 2007
 
Pessimist:
The problem begins with the definition of an "assault weapon". It has been seen on numerous occasions that many opposed to the private ownership of firearms are quite happy to label any firearm they'd like to see banned as an "assault weapon", whether the label was proper or not. Consider this definition from Wikipedia, and compare with what some politicians and media call an "assault rifle".
The term assault rifle is a translation of the German word Sturmgewehr (literally meaning "storm rifle"), "storm" used as a verb being synonymous with assault, as in "to storm the compound". Sturmgewehr was coined by Adolf Hitler to describe the Maschinenpistole 44, subsequently re-baptized Sturmgewehr 44, the firearm generally considered the first widely-used assault rifle and served to popularize the concept. The translation “assault rifle” gradually became the common term for similar firearms sharing the same technical definition as the name giver StG 44. In a strict definition, a firearm must have all of the following five characteristics to qualify as an assault rifle:[1][2][3]
Is a carbine sized individual weapon with provision to be fired from a shouldered position.
Barrel length is usually 400 mm to 500 mm (16” to 20”)
Is capable of selective fire.
Fires from a locked breech.
Utilizes an intermediate powered-cartridge.
Ammunition is supplied from a large capacity detachable box magazine.
Most common is a capacity of 30 rounds, sometimes 20 rounds.
Pessimist wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again I will state that I have no interest in convincing anyone to give up their guns (I have stated this so many times on so many forums but I expect it will be ignored here as well and I will attract many many insults for having the gall to ask questions), my interest ends with trying to understand why people feel a need to own assault weapons etc and high murder rates.
With the Norway question check out their firearms laws, training, social and cultural attitudes to firearms and compare them to America and you will find huge differences; look at other countries with high firearm ownership and low murder rates (e.g. Switzerland) and you will also find many of the same differences.
Daniel

Knoxville, TN

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#12
May 1, 2007
 
..and here's a Wikipedia definition of an "assault weapon".

It is interesting to note that NEITHER weapon used at Virginia Tech meets this description.

An assault weapon is most commonly described as having a combination of the following characteristics:

A detachable magazine holding more than 10 rounds.
Military-style appearance, including semi-automatic replicas of military selective-fire assault rifles and machineguns
A folding or telescoping stock
Attached grenade launchers such as the M203 or rifle grenade
On rifles and shotguns, pistol grips that extend vertically from the stock
A bayonet lug
Threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash suppressor, muzzle brake, or sound suppressor
Weapons that include a barrel shroud
On pistols, those on which the magazine attaches outside of the pistol grip
A forward mounted pistol grip
Gerry

United States

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#13
May 1, 2007
 
This is in newsweek:

Deaths per 100,000 people;

United States 10.08
Spain 0.75
Belgium 3.67
England,Wales 0.31
Finland 4.51
France 4.93
Switzerland 6.40
Poland 0.44
South Korea 0.10
Japan 0.08

You can come up with your own conclusions.
The U.S. has the most guns floating around. We have more poverty, whereas most countries listed are basically middle class.

Trying to figure out why Switzerland is so high and I can only figure that maybe since they don't have a military that all citizens may have a gun. This is only a guess.

Was stationed in Germany for three and a half years. Have gone back to Europe many times and have felt as safe or safer. There are no slum areas, as opposed to the U.S. where there are places you would not want to drive into.

My personal feeling, if gun ownership could have been started from the beginning, 40 different make of rifles and shotguns would have been enough to satisfy any hunter. Now with handguns, it is every man for himself. Could certain disasters be prevented? Well maybe, depends if you are near a gun to protect yourself. Got to be at the right place at the right time. So who knows?
Daniel

Knoxville, TN

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#14
May 1, 2007
 
A thought about this "assult weapon" nonsense.
I have a friend who owns an AR-15. Looks just like a military M-16. He paid $700.00 for it. It holds 10 rounds of .223 ammunition, and fires once each time the trigger is pressed. It's considered an "assault weapon".
I own a Marlin Model 60 .22 rifle. I paid $100.00 for it. It holds 17 rounds of .22 ammunition, and fires once each time the trigger is pressed. It is NOT considered an assult rifle.
Which is more dangerous, and more easily accessible?
Most, if they didn't know the facts, would assume the "assault rifle" was.
In this case, what makes the AR-15 an "assault rifle", is the way it LOOKS, not the way it FUNCTIONS.
Banning "assault rifles" that meet the description I just gave would be like the Department of Transportation banning Corvettes, because they "look fast".
Daniel

Knoxville, TN

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#15
May 1, 2007
 
One amendment to the statement at the top of this topic:
"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms”
The Constitution, which the President is SWORN to protect and defend, agrees.
Gerry

United States

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#16
May 1, 2007
 
Daniel wrote:
One amendment to the statement at the top of this topic:
"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms”
The Constitution, which the President is SWORN to protect and defend, agrees.
That's fine, then we have to accept that because of that there will be a certain amount of crime and murder. Fact of life.
Daniel

Knoxville, TN

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#17
May 1, 2007
 
Well, now, I'm confused. How does poverty/slums enter into the equation? Are you implying that people are poor because they own guns?
Gerry wrote:
This is in newsweek:
Deaths per 100,000 people;
United States 10.08
Spain 0.75
Belgium 3.67
England,Wales 0.31
Finland 4.51
France 4.93
Switzerland 6.40
Poland 0.44
South Korea 0.10
Japan 0.08
You can come up with your own conclusions.
The U.S. has the most guns floating around. We have more poverty, whereas most countries listed are basically middle class.
Trying to figure out why Switzerland is so high and I can only figure that maybe since they don't have a military that all citizens may have a gun. This is only a guess.
Was stationed in Germany for three and a half years. Have gone back to Europe many times and have felt as safe or safer. There are no slum areas, as opposed to the U.S. where there are places you would not want to drive into.
My personal feeling, if gun ownership could have been started from the beginning, 40 different make of rifles and shotguns would have been enough to satisfy any hunter. Now with handguns, it is every man for himself. Could certain disasters be prevented? Well maybe, depends if you are near a gun to protect yourself. Got to be at the right place at the right time. So who knows?
Daniel

Knoxville, TN

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#18
May 1, 2007
 
Gerry:

Your logic is flawed. There were criminals and murderers long before the invention of gunpowder.
Gerry wrote:
<quoted text>
That's fine, then we have to accept that because of that there will be a certain amount of crime and murder. Fact of life.
Gerry

United States

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#19
May 1, 2007
 
Daniel wrote:
Well, now, I'm confused. How does poverty/slums enter into the equation? Are you implying that people are poor because they own guns?
<quoted text>
According to Newsweek, slums are a breeding ground for violence. You add guns and you have trouble.
Daniel

Knoxville, TN

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#20
May 1, 2007
 
Gerry;

Your answer implies that if guns were removed, the violence would no longer exist. Several thousand years worth of human history proves that this is not the case.
Gerry wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Newsweek, slums are a breeding ground for violence. You add guns and you have trouble.

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