City workers pay cuts

[hind sight 20 20]

broken promises wrote:

<quoted text>
When the Enlightened Great Fathers bought the golf course, including the great Garret, they promised it would be a money maker within 5 or so years. If the golf course failed to make money they promised to sell it. But as we all know the Great Fathers fail to keep their promises. A promise of a council or a city is only as good and honest as those sitting in the seats. The people holding the seats now feel no obligation to uphold the honor of past promises.

In 1997 the golf picture looked much better than it has this decade. it was reasonable to assume a profit from a bargain purchase of 3 million for an already built golf course with good fairways and greens. The golf industry has been affected by two market crashes since then and has slowed down. Florissant has the potential to break even and we might see Casper golf accomplish that next year. Not only is golf a good service for Florissant residents but it is something to be proud of in the fact that Florissant has the only 18 hole championship municipal run golf course in St. Louis County. About a half dozen cities have nine hole courses and St. Louis county has two championship 18 hole courses. We benefit in many non financial ways by maintaining a golf course. It is used a lot by the business and charity community and is a center of attraction that helps ground business owners to this community. It helps to keep some very good people living and working in our area.

[jeanette]

Vote M Out wrote:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltod ay/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscit ycounty/story/3A955FFF5316E413 8625766A007BBF98?OpenDocument
As little as 3 months ago, didn't Lowery say publicly that they were in great financial shape? Now the workers get their salaries cut 3 percent. Which of the 9 council members gave him blank checks and a green light to spend the city into financial ruin? The elected officials that support this budget should be thrown out of office in the next election. It's very likely that the announced state audit will probably uncover many questionable spending tactics deployed by this bunch. What's next? The workers losing health care benefits and their pensions? Looks like it's time for a change to politics as usual out there. Vote the bums out!

Yes, the mayor did say that we were in great financial shape. He also said at the beginning at this economical distress that no one in Florissant would lose their home. I think sometimes his strongest desires are overcome by realities. He also says he loves us all.??

[Check the Numbers]

hind sight 20 20 wrote:

<quoted text>
In 1997 the golf picture looked much better than it has this decade. it was reasonable to assume a profit from a bargain purchase of 3 million for an already built golf course with good fairways and greens. The golf industry has been affected by two market crashes since then and has slowed down. Florissant has the potential to break even and we might see Casper golf accomplish that next year. Not only is golf a good service for Florissant residents but it is something to be proud of in the fact that Florissant has the only 18 hole championship municipal run golf course in St. Louis County. About a half dozen cities have nine hole courses and St. Louis county has two championship 18 hole courses. We benefit in many non financial ways by maintaining a golf course. It is used a lot by the business and charity community and is a center of attraction that helps ground business owners to this community. It helps to k
eep some very good people living and working in our area.

The golf course under Caspar management is projected to lose $163,978 this coming fiscal year. It's all in the budget just look. How much prestige can it bring to a city with crumbling street and infrastructure. I would be happy with less pretige and streets without potholes and police adequately compensated for keeping me safe. A golf course is fluff and I seriously doubt any business has relocated or stays in Florissant because we have a golf course. As far as having the only 18-hole course in the County are other cities cutting their employees 3% to support a service which only is used by a small minority population. Everyone uses the streets and the police protect everyone, golf is a luxury sport for a few. Personally I would rather pay my police like my life depended on it than have a golf course which sucks money from the city.

[Pethead]

hind sight 20 20 wrote:

<quoted text>
In 1997 the golf picture looked much better than it has this decade. it was reasonable to assume a profit from a bargain purchase of 3 million for an already built golf course with good fairways and greens. The golf industry has been affected by two market crashes since then and has slowed down. Florissant has the potential to break even and we might see Casper golf accomplish that next year. Not only is golf a good service for Florissant residents but it is something to be proud of in the fact that Florissant has the only 18 hole championship municipal run golf course in St. Louis County. About a half dozen cities have nine hole courses and St. Louis county has two championship 18 hole courses. We benefit in many non financial ways by maintaining a golf course. It is used a lot by the business and charity community and is a center of attraction that helps ground business owners to this community. It helps to keep some very good people living and working in our area.

Florissant's golf course never has showed a profit from what I understand. You say that the market crashes are responsible for the losses? I think not!

I searched the web to find cities that have profited from city run facilities. Even the city of San Francisco has a multimillion dollar deficit with theirs.

I found an article on Michigan's city golf courses. Here's a quote from their findings. http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx...

"Municipal golf courses are expensive endeavors that can bleed municipalities of much-needed cash. They represent untapped assets that could be sold, generating revenue from the sale, and adding property to a municipality’s tax rolls. Perhaps most important, municipal courses compete directly with private, for-profit courses for customers, and do so using the tax dollars of private golf course owners. And from a “good government” point of view, government-run golf is, as Governing Magazine has said,“the most nonessential of nonessential services.” Can anyone seriously claim “golf” as a legitimate government function?"

By the way, this article is from April 26, 2004 (5 and a half years ago - long before the market crashes.)

[Nine holes]

Hope the City can keep the 18 hole course but if they can not then I hope they can figure out how to keep at least nine. Then maybe they can sell some of the land for future housing to pay off some golf debt etc. Also it seems like nine hole courses are common for municipalities to run and break even on. Also maybe they could keep some for a driving range and or a par 3 course for beginers and kids etc. They could just opperate the nine and driving range/par 3 course from the existing club house. Maybe there is a way to break even. that has not been talked about.

[not only]

the mayor has bragged that the health insurance cost to employee's isn't going up but what he does not point out to anyone is that the out of pocket expenses (deductibles, etc) are raising significantly - further reducing their cash flow.

[anon employee 2]

not only wrote:

the mayor has bragged that the health insurance cost to employee's isn't going up but what he does not point out to anyone is that the out of pocket expenses (deductibles, etc) are raising significantly - further reducing their cash flow.

I am just happy to have good health care, and the city pays 25% for my family as well. Take a look at the "real world" and see how much people are paying for health insurance (if they are lucky enought to have a job and an employer who offers health insurance). It could be MUCH works.

I am just happy to have a job, and not seeing 20-30 of my friends lose their jobs. A 3% pay cut will hurt, but at least if you live in the city you got your $100 a month back.

[Dickens]

anon employee 2 wrote:

<quoted text>
I am just happy to have good health care, and the city pays 25% for my family as well. Take a look at the "real world" and see how much people are paying for health insurance (if they are lucky enought to have a job and an employer who offers health insurance). It could be MUCH works.
I am just happy to have a job, and not seeing 20-30 of my friends lose their jobs. A 3% pay cut will hurt, but at least if you live in the city you got your $100 a month back.

You sound like Oliver Twist, please sir just a job sir, I'm so happy for the meager scraps you throw my way. Lowery is doing this because he knows he can and people like yourself will be oh so grateful for his largess. Perhaps you all deserve what he is dishing out since no one has the gonads to organze a protest and comb the budget for savings and bring them to the public. You have given him an inch the next time he will take a mile at your expense.

[gone and forgotten]

anon employee 2 wrote:

<quoted text>
I am just happy to have good health care, and the city pays 25% for my family as well. Take a look at the "real world" and see how much people are paying for health insurance (if they are lucky enought to have a job and an employer who offers health insurance). It could be MUCH works.
I am just happy to have a job, and not seeing 20-30 of my friends lose their jobs. A 3% pay cut will hurt, but at least if you live in the city you got your $100 a month back.

The proposed budget also does away with the residency incentive. Say goodbye to another $1,200.00.

[Beat Dogs]

anon employee 2 wrote:

<quoted text>
I am just happy to have good health care, and the city pays 25% for my family as well. Take a look at the "real world" and see how much people are paying for health insurance (if they are lucky enought to have a job and an employer who offers health insurance). It could be MUCH works.
I am just happy to have a job, and not seeing 20-30 of my friends lose their jobs. A 3% pay cut will hurt, but at least if you live in the city you got your $100 a month back.

Let's all be thankful for the scraps we receive.
Let us be thankful for our "trickle" while those at the top use us to make their lives better. We will be grateful for the little they throw our way after we make them disgustingly wealthy.
For it is the way of the lord that the many will work hard and struggle so that a few shall live in luxury!

[U Two]

How much of a pay cut did Lowery take? How about the council did they get a pay cut?

[broken promises]

hind sight 20 20 wrote:

<quoted text>
In 1997 the golf picture looked much better than it has this decade. it was reasonable to assume a profit from a bargain purchase of 3 million for an already built golf course with good fairways and greens. The golf industry has been affected by two market crashes since then and has slowed down. Florissant has the potential to break even and we might see Casper golf accomplish that next year. Not only is golf a good service for Florissant residents but it is something to be proud of in the fact that Florissant has the only 18 hole championship municipal run golf course in St. Louis County. About a half dozen cities have nine hole courses and St. Louis county has two championship 18 hole courses. We benefit in many non financial ways by maintaining a golf course. It is used a lot by the business and charity community and is a center of attraction that helps ground business owners to this community. It helps to keep some very good people living and working in our area.

Good fairways and greens? The place has been a money pit. The constant use of parks dept staff, city equipment and tax dollars to try and improve the greens and the buildings ahs been extraordinary. Tom Schneider was one of the council that was a huge proponent of bringing the untended course up to par, at any cost.Always a new surprise and a new expense. This is from day one! Check the numbers.

[Joachim]

all 4 golf wrote:

<quoted text>
Use REAL numbers, and do your research. You are not including sales revenue from pro shop, food and beverage, tournements, rentals of the club house. But you math majors out there know you have to take gross income and subtract expenses. Will the golf course make money? Absolutely not. But neither will the parks, the swimming pools, the tennis courts, the street department, or the health department. Public Works will not turn a profit even with gross receipts from permits and inspections.
The city provides services to its residents. Golf is one of these services. And even if we closed the course, there would be cost to maintain the buildings and grounds...and the city is still paying the mortgage from purshasing the golf course.(they do not own their building and lot)

Hey old duffer, what in the world did you do before flo owned that money pit? Its a giant hole in the ground that the city has been pouring money at for a long time. It should have never been bought. Now since they havent got that cash, the employees are getting a good screwin by the idiots in charge. sell the POS now!!!!!!!!!!

[Joachim]

anon employee 2 wrote:

<quoted text>
I am just happy to have good health care, and the city pays 25% for my family as well. Take a look at the "real world" and see how much people are paying for health insurance (if they are lucky enought to have a job and an employer who offers health insurance). It could be MUCH works.
I am just happy to have a job, and not seeing 20-30 of my friends lose their jobs. A 3% pay cut will hurt, but at least if you live in the city you got your $100 a month back.

chicken.......bawk, bawk......get off your scared ass and get to city hall monday night and suck up to em some more.

[pay]

U Two wrote:

How much of a pay cut did Lowery take? How about the council did they get a pay cut?

The council makes $600 amonth. Divided by 9,thats not much money.

[the Man]

Plus health care and retirement benefits.

pay wrote:

<quoted text>
The council makes $600 amonth. Divided by 9,thats not much money.

[U Two]

pay wrote:

<quoted text>
The council makes $600 month. Divided by 9,thats not much money.

I'm not complaining how much the council makes. I simply asked a question. Does anybody know how much of a pay cut the Mayor took? He says he took a pay cut!!!

[NOSTRADAMUS]

I don't think the mayor can take a cut, he may refund back to the city. An increase or decrease must be voted my the council and it really doesn't take effect to a new term.

[Workers]

Since the management is taken in consideration the workers, it is good time to look at a union.

[Audit]

U Two wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not complaining how much the council makes. I simply asked a question. Does anybody know how much of a pay cut the Mayor took? He says he took a pay cut!!!

The mayor took no pay cut he claims he will be writing a check to the city for 5% of his pay and told the Polcie he has written checks already no record of any checks and his salary cannot be reduced by ordinance until the next election. It is smoke he will not be giving up any money. He has also said he give 30% of his salary to charity yet has never provided documentation. Remember this is a man who doesn't even pay for his own lunches, car, gas or insurance. It's all paid for by you.