Fighting Sioux backers appeal to N.D....

Fighting Sioux backers appeal to N.D. Gov. Hoeven

There are 26 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Apr 15, 2010, titled Fighting Sioux backers appeal to N.D. Gov. Hoeven. In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

A group of Spirit Lake Sioux tribal members who lost a court fight on the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname want Gov.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TwinCities.com.

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Freedom Lover

Minneapolis, MN

#1 Apr 15, 2010
I didn't know that tribal representatives had any real authority off the reservation. I'm not being mean or anything; but' just like Minnesota officials have no authority on Red Lake I thought that both gonernments were autonomous?
Rich Lee

Cold Spring, MN

#2 Apr 15, 2010
Fine...Get rid of the "Fighting Sioux" name and change it to the " North Dakota Rough-Riders" in honor those great men that rode with Teddy Roosevelt. Screw this politically correct BS.
sick of it all

Hastings, MN

#3 Apr 15, 2010
Ok then as an American of Irish descent I'd like to see the University of Notre Dame change their name as well. Heck while we are at it lets make all the state high schools such as Rosemount change their name too so they don't offend anyone. Good enough? Everybody friggin happy now? What's next, PETA taking up the cause for all the teams that have animal names for their teams? A simple gesture of honoring a group of people and it turns into this mess, hope all you PC pukes are happy.
Smartass

Saint Paul, MN

#4 Apr 15, 2010
This is so simple to fix, since UND turns out lawyers then just change the spelling to Fighting Sue.

“HHhhhoooowwwlll”

Since: Feb 08

Craigville

#5 Apr 15, 2010
So when can we buy one of those fighting souix seats for pennies on the dollar?
sick of it all

Hastings, MN

#6 Apr 15, 2010
sick of it all wrote:
Ok then as an American of Irish descent I'd like to see the University of Notre Dame change their name as well. Heck while we are at it lets make all the state high schools such as Rosemount change their name too so they don't offend anyone. Good enough? Everybody friggin happy now? What's next, PETA taking up the cause for all the teams that have animal names for their teams? A simple gesture of honoring a group of people and it turns into this mess, hope all you PC pukes are happy.
Yeah I'm nuts because a caucasian can't be offended without being a wacko right? I'm not truely offended, just trying to make a point here. It's about as nuts as changing a name for any other group.
del

Denver, CO

#7 Apr 15, 2010
There is always a special interest group that will put pressure in politicians to force their point of view on the majority. The Sioux were noted warriors and should be proud to be associated with a school of higher learning. Students and alumni of UND are proud to be called the Fighting Sioux. Plus, it has a better meaning to it than the Fighting Frenchmen! Sorry, for not being politically correct.
Wondering

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#8 Apr 15, 2010
How come Florida State can use Seminoles and Cleveland baseball can use Indians? Do like the suggestion of Rough Riders or how about Teddies?
Tom

Minneapolis, MN

#9 Apr 15, 2010
For the billionth time, the difference between Notre Dame and teams with Native American based nicknames has to do with being named after a group's (Irish Americans) chosen characterization of their own culture (Fighting Irish) versus being named after a group's (European Americans in North Dakota) stereotyped understanding of another (historically oppressed, misunderstood) culture ((Native Americans). Notre Dame -- started by a bunch of Irish Catholics -- named themselves the Fighting Irish because of pride in their strength. North Dakota and other schools were named by European Americans with the stereotype they had of Native Americans as warriors, fighters, people with red skin, etc...

When a group seeks to not be stereotyped a certain way that they have been throughout a brutal, painful history for their culture, if those stereotypes still strongly persist as the most visible characterization of them in popular culture, the result is that it's much more difficult for the stereotypes to be broken down.

If you're white, like I am, many of you don't apparently understand anything about what it means to be stereotyped except for maybe whining about people thinking you get too many advantages.

Lastly, a couple of facts:

Did you know that Native Americans were almost made extinct through years of genocide practiced by early American settlers?

Also, did you know that the man who paid for the North Dakota hockey stadium and who was the most vocal supporter of keeping the Fighting Sioux name -- Ralph Engelstad -- threw parties for Adolph Hitler's birthday in his Las Vegas casino? Bartenders wore shirts that said "Adolf Hitler — European tour 1939-45." There were cakes with swastikas on them. He had a huge collection of Nazi memorabilia. These are the kinds of people from whom an insensitivity for Native Americans is to be expected. Are you like him?
gus r

Saint Paul, MN

#10 Apr 15, 2010
How about the "Fighting Swedes" or the "Fighting Pollocks" !
IrreverentOne

United States

#12 Apr 15, 2010
Tom wrote:
For the billionth time, the difference between Notre Dame and teams with Native American based nicknames has to do with being named after a group's (Irish Americans) chosen characterization of their own culture (Fighting Irish) versus being named after a group's (European Americans in North Dakota) stereotyped understanding of another (historically oppressed, misunderstood) culture ((Native Americans). Notre Dame -- started by a bunch of Irish Catholics -- named themselves the Fighting Irish because of pride in their strength. North Dakota and other schools were named by European Americans with the stereotype they had of Native Americans as warriors, fighters, people with red skin, etc...
When a group seeks to not be stereotyped a certain way that they have been throughout a brutal, painful history for their culture, if those stereotypes still strongly persist as the most visible characterization of them in popular culture, the result is that it's much more difficult for the stereotypes to be broken down.
If you're white, like I am, many of you don't apparently understand anything about what it means to be stereotyped except for maybe whining about people thinking you get too many advantages.
Lastly, a couple of facts:
Did you know that Native Americans were almost made extinct through years of genocide practiced by early American settlers?
Also, did you know that the man who paid for the North Dakota hockey stadium and who was the most vocal supporter of keeping the Fighting Sioux name -- Ralph Engelstad -- threw parties for Adolph Hitler's birthday in his Las Vegas casino? Bartenders wore shirts that said "Adolf Hitler — European tour 1939-45." There were cakes with swastikas on them. He had a huge collection of Nazi memorabilia. These are the kinds of people from whom an insensitivity for Native Americans is to be expected. Are you like him?
That was a darned impressive post there Tom. Now why don't you impress us all a little more and tell us who it was that brought the very first law suit to have the name changed.
mr kennedy

Bemidji, MN

#13 Apr 15, 2010
you have a point tom, unfortunately it happened to the whites too. back before american indians came here there where people named the ainu. they were pushed out and killed in barbaric ways. check out Bonnichsen V. U.S., that tells the whole story about white being here before american indians. in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, the term "Native American" was stripped and replaced with "American Indians" because that was the fact.
as for the fighting sioux nickname, they were fighting for their lives because the ojibwe from canada was kicking the crap out of them and they retreated into the US. so, in my opinion(I am from White Earth Res.) the nickname is correct.
coolio

Saint Paul, MN

#14 Apr 15, 2010
Tom wrote:
For the billionth time, the difference between Notre Dame and teams with Native American based nicknames has to do with being named after a group's (Irish Americans) chosen characterization of their own culture (Fighting Irish) versus being named after a group's (European Americans in North Dakota) stereotyped understanding of another (historically oppressed, misunderstood) culture ((Native Americans). Notre Dame -- started by a bunch of Irish Catholics -- named themselves the Fighting Irish because of pride in their strength. North Dakota and other schools were named by European Americans with the stereotype they had of Native Americans as warriors, fighters, people with red skin, etc...
When a group seeks to not be stereotyped a certain way that they have been throughout a brutal, painful history for their culture, if those stereotypes still strongly persist as the most visible characterization of them in popular culture, the result is that it's much more difficult for the stereotypes to be broken down.
If you're white, like I am, many of you don't apparently understand anything about what it means to be stereotyped except for maybe whining about people thinking you get too many advantages.
Lastly, a couple of facts:
Did you know that Native Americans were almost made extinct through years of genocide practiced by early American settlers?
Also, did you know that the man who paid for the North Dakota hockey stadium and who was the most vocal supporter of keeping the Fighting Sioux name -- Ralph Engelstad -- threw parties for Adolph Hitler's birthday in his Las Vegas casino? Bartenders wore shirts that said "Adolf Hitler — European tour 1939-45." There were cakes with swastikas on them. He had a huge collection of Nazi memorabilia. These are the kinds of people from whom an insensitivity for Native Americans is to be expected. Are you like him?
It's an historical fact that these people had to fight occassionally for their survival...whether it be fighting off other tribes (or the white man), the bitter cold, drought, or whatever. To "fight" is a very general term, meaning one is willing to stand one's ground. It's not a stereotype - it's an honor.
Chuck

Saint Paul, MN

#15 Apr 15, 2010
Somebody tell that idiot Tom that some of my White Christian ancestors were nearly made extinct by Inkpaduta and a few other terrorists.

http://www.rrcnet.org/~historic/eastlick.html
One more forgotten fact

Minneapolis, MN

#16 Apr 15, 2010
Tom wrote:
For the billionth time, the difference between Notre Dame and teams with Native American based nicknames has to do with being named after a group's (Irish Americans) chosen characterization of their own culture (Fighting Irish) versus being named after a group's (European Americans in North Dakota) stereotyped understanding of another (historically oppressed, misunderstood) culture ((Native Americans). Notre Dame -- started by a bunch of Irish Catholics -- named themselves the Fighting Irish because of pride in their strength. North Dakota and other schools were named by European Americans with the stereotype they had of Native Americans as warriors, fighters, people with red skin, etc...
When a group seeks to not be stereotyped a certain way that they have been throughout a brutal, painful history for their culture, if those stereotypes still strongly persist as the most visible characterization of them in popular culture, the result is that it's much more difficult for the stereotypes to be broken down.
If you're white, like I am, many of you don't apparently understand anything about what it means to be stereotyped except for maybe whining about people thinking you get too many advantages.
Lastly, a couple of facts:
Did you know that Native Americans were almost made extinct through years of genocide practiced by early American settlers?
Also, did you know that the man who paid for the North Dakota hockey stadium and who was the most vocal supporter of keeping the Fighting Sioux name -- Ralph Engelstad -- threw parties for Adolph Hitler's birthday in his Las Vegas casino? Bartenders wore shirts that said "Adolf Hitler — European tour 1939-45." There were cakes with swastikas on them. He had a huge collection of Nazi memorabilia. These are the kinds of people from whom an insensitivity for Native Americans is to be expected. Are you like him?
Some Native tribes WERE exterminated. And NOT by the 'White man'. The correct answer is... the Iroquois.
One more forgotten fact

Minneapolis, MN

#17 Apr 15, 2010
Wondering wrote:
How come Florida State can use Seminoles and Cleveland baseball can use Indians? Do like the suggestion of Rough Riders or how about Teddies?
If I'm not mistaken, the Seminoles are %100 ok with the usage. It'll take some stinkin' white, liberal ACLU lawyer, to show them the error of their ways.
K Kaz

Fall Creek, WI

#18 Apr 15, 2010
Isn't this political correctness going a bit far? I'm half Irish, so does that mean that if I complain enough I can convince legions of fans. students and Alum of Norte Dame that the name of the "Fighting Irish" is wrong? My other half is good old Norweigan. So should I complain that it's the Minnesota Vikings? That their horns on the helmet is incorrect, thus wrong and offensive? What about every US man named William, aka Bill?(My father included.) Now the "Buffalo Bills" need to be aware of how they're offending each man in the US with their team name.

Come on people!!!! It is good to bring about awareness, to fight prejudice, to speak for those who are being wronged. But isn't there other more important things in this world than focusing on a team logo and name?

I am all for creating awareness when it is warranted. I do not think this is such a case. The UND "Fighting Sioux" is an honor. It is a "nod" to this noble group of warriors that protected their families, the community that they lived in, and belonged to. It's too bad there isn't more of us in this world that lived a life such as they did in the 1800's. The Sioux protected what they felt was rightfully theirs. They were known for their ability to fight, and bring about respect not only of other Native tribes, but the white man as well. They had a code of honor and loyalty that very few other groups of people ever did. Or still do. And now suddenly that well known code of honor, the willingness to defend their own, and the well-earned respect and admiration of others is suddenly wrong?
K Kaz

Fall Creek, WI

#19 Apr 15, 2010
Tom wrote:
For the billionth time, the difference between Notre Dame and teams with Native American based nicknames has to do with being named after a group's (Irish Americans) chosen characterization of their own culture (Fighting Irish) versus being named after a group's (European Americans in North Dakota) stereotyped understanding of another (historically oppressed, misunderstood) culture ((Native Americans). Notre Dame -- started by a bunch of Irish Catholics -- named themselves the Fighting Irish because of pride in their strength. North Dakota and other schools were named by European Americans with the stereotype they had of Native Americans as warriors, fighters, people with red skin, etc...
When a group seeks to not be stereotyped a certain way that they have been throughout a brutal, painful history for their culture, if those stereotypes still strongly persist as the most visible characterization of them in popular culture, the result is that it's much more difficult for the stereotypes to be broken down.
If you're white, like I am, many of you don't apparently understand anything about what it means to be stereotyped except for maybe whining about people thinking you get too many advantages.
Lastly, a couple of facts:
Did you know that Native Americans were almost made extinct through years of genocide practiced by early American settlers?
Also, did you know that the man who paid for the North Dakota hockey stadium and who was the most vocal supporter of keeping the Fighting Sioux name -- Ralph Engelstad -- threw parties for Adolph Hitler's birthday in his Las Vegas casino? Bartenders wore shirts that said "Adolf Hitler — European tour 1939-45." There were cakes with swastikas on them. He had a huge collection of Nazi memorabilia. These are the kinds of people from whom an insensitivity for Native Americans is to be expected. Are you like him?
Tom, There is American Indians that are appealing the ND ruling...wouldn't you think if of all people, they themselves WANT the name reinstated that it should be considered? Yes, I agree that we (white people), treated the American Indians with cruelty and we devastated their way of life. That being said, the name is meant to be taken as an honor. Most people are aware of this. Including the people the name came from.
Adam

Blue Bell, PA

#20 Apr 16, 2010
The word in North Dakota was that the one tribe that didn't buy into keeping the name had a tribal leader holding out for more money. I believe that he was replaced and they were getting close to actually letting the tribe vote on the issue.
crazy horse

Saint Paul, MN

#21 Apr 16, 2010
as a native (Red cliff WI) i dont get the fuss.
In fact, 95% of us dont. It only takes one smug ACLU lawyer, who knows whats best for everybody! sometimes, as in this case, a tribe member will raise the issue.
I personally dont want to see Redskins as a sport teams name, but other than that, my kids have Atlanta Braves, Chiefs, and Seminoles hats and jeresys.

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