Old Bisbee and the Gulch at a Crossroad?

[Hobart]

Bisbee, especially Old Bisbee and the Gulch are at a crossroad. Bisbee can be reduced to a bunch of empty buildings and a few "boutiques" for shop owners who can afford the high priced rents.

The Gulch is finally catching up to Main Street in terms of shop rental prices and building renovations destined to become empty shells or thriving enterprises filling a need.

When the TAVERN, on Main Street, now the ROKA restaurant, was so nasty the tourists would cross the street to avoid all the drunks yelling insults down the street. Behind the TAVERN they were urinating in the street and throwing beer bottles against the wall.

After Main Street was cleaned up, the shouting of insults, throwing beer bottles and urinating in the street moved to outside St. Elmo's. After a few years the nastiness was discouraged, yet Goar Park, and the cheap rent of the Megdovitch (sp) building began to harbor smelly bums with the same disgusting attitudes. Sad to say that the Stock Exchange Bar is part of the offensive mire.

This Brewery Gulch bottleneck has to be removed before the Gulch can become a comfortable place to visit and economically feasible.

The property owners on the Gulch have to get together and come up with a plan for whatever they want the Gulch to become and not let it be defined by the bums, idiots, and dopers.

[AZ Girl]

Hobart wrote:

Bisbee, especially Old Bisbee and the Gulch are at a crossroad. Bisbee can be reduced to a bunch of empty buildings and a few "boutiques" for shop owners who can afford the high priced rents.
The Gulch is finally catching up to Main Street in terms of shop rental prices and building renovations destined to become empty shells or thriving enterprises filling a need.
When the TAVERN, on Main Street, now the ROKA restaurant, was so nasty the tourists would cross the street to avoid all the drunks yelling insults down the street. Behind the TAVERN they were urinating in the street and throwing beer bottles against the wall.
After Main Street was cleaned up, the shouting of insults, throwing beer bottles and urinating in the street moved to outside St. Elmo's. After a few years the nastiness was discouraged, yet Goar Park, and the cheap rent of the Megdovitch (sp) building began to harbor smelly bums with the same disgusting attitudes. Sad to say that the Stock Exchange Bar is part of the offensive mire.
This Brewery Gulch bottleneck has to be removed before the Gulch can become a comfortable place to visit and economically feasible.
The property owners on the Gulch have to get together and come up with a plan for whatever they want the Gulch to become and not let it be defined by the bums, idiots, and dopers.

Is it really that bad now? I know about the drunks, dopers, etc., I am sorry but, I have not been down to Bisbee since last year, and I do not remember it being quite that bad. I want to make a trip there maybe in a month or two, but I am having second thoughts about it.

[Lucifers Hammer]

AZ Girl wrote:

<quoted text>
Is it really that bad now? I know about the drunks, dopers, etc., I am sorry but, I have not been down to Bisbee since last year, and I do not remember it being quite that bad. I want to make a trip there maybe in a month or two, but I am having second thoughts about it.

As ever when reading posts in Topix, allow for the use of hyperbole and exaggeration. Goar has not gotten any better, but it's no worse, except in the minds of some uptight people.

[AZ Girl]

Lucifers Hammer wrote:

<quoted text>
As ever when reading posts in Topix, allow for the use of hyperbole and exaggeration. Goar has not gotten any better, but it's no worse, except in the minds of some uptight people.

Thanks Luci - and you are correct I did not take that into consideration.

[To Az Girl]

"Is it really that bad now?"

[Depends on your point of view.

If you're not invested in the Gulch then it does not matter what you want to see or interpret.

Think pot should be legalized? Then he mere word doper offends you.

If you're a liberal who abhors judgmental ism then you'll never think that removing the unwashed nose pickers from Goar park is a solution to reviving the Gulch so toruists will get past them. I've noticed it only takes one rag bag to turn them around.

But then you or Jack don't have a dime invested or the inclination to see a more comfortable and prosperous Gulch, so it does not matter to you.]

[AZ Girl]

To Az Girl wrote:

"Is it really that bad now?"
[Depends on your point of view.
If you're not invested in the Gulch then it does not matter what you want to see or interpret.
Think pot should be legalized? Then he mere word doper offends you.
If you're a liberal who abhors judgmental ism then you'll never think that removing the unwashed nose pickers from Goar park is a solution to reviving the Gulch so toruists will get past them. I've noticed it only takes one rag bag to turn them around.
But then you or Jack don't have a dime invested or the inclination to see a more comfortable and prosperous Gulch, so it does not matter to you.]

REALLY.......
Do you know me? No you do not.
I am not a TROLL so I will not pass judgement on you, like you obviously have done with me!
I will merely consider the source.

[Lucifers Hammer]

"Removing the Gulch bottleneck" might be a bit tricky, so long as Patricia owns the Exchange. She doesn't seem to care much what happens there, or what sort of people gather on the deck outside.

So there's at least one person "invested" in the Gulch who might be her own bottleneck. Whattaya gonna do about that, Hobart?

[To Az Girl]

"REALLY.......
Do you know me? No you do not.
I am not a TROLL so I will not pass judgement on you, like you obviously have done with me!
I will merely consider the source."

[Oh Come On! And Calm down! Those "IF" questions are just that and NOT judging you. Geeze! Get a grip!

[Loved the Gulch]

When I first came to town the Gulch was a mess. Yet Garski, who was the most gentle man ever, was there still with hopes, dreams and a kind work. He loved the Gulch as much as anybody. Steven King at the Stock was fun and enthusiastic. Richard Fiorentino was a good friend to everybody and a great businessman. There were lovable drunks and characters all over the place.
Actually when Miller's wife managed the Copper Queen Hotel and ran the Copper Queen Bar, St. Elmo's wasn't that popular. The Queen Bar was packed most every night. Yet, the whole Gulch mentality and culture was a great place to be. The foundation was deep friendships.

[AZ Girl]

To Az Girl wrote:

But then you or Jack don't have a dime invested or the inclination to see a more comfortable and prosperous Gulch, so it does not matter to you.]

[Oh Come On! And Calm down! Those "IF" questions are just that and NOT judging you. Geeze! Get a grip!
Read above 'Quote' from you! "It does not matter to me?' And you say you are not judging me. Geeze! You get a grip Buttercup!

[Stretchy Az]

Az Girl..Your prior posts define you. I'd just prefer you stay away from Bisbee. Have fun!

[Loved the Gulch]

When I first came to town the Gulch was a mess. Yet Garski, who was the most gentle man ever, was there still with hopes, dreams and a kind work. He loved the Gulch as much as anybody. Steven King at the Stock was fun and enthusiastic. Richard Fiorentino was a good friend to everybody and a great businessman. There were lovable drunks and characters all over the place.
Actually when Miller's wife managed the Copper Queen Hotel and ran the Copper Queen Bar, St. Elmo's wasn't that popular. The Queen Bar was packed most every night. Yet, the whole Gulch mentality and culture was a great place to be. The foundation was deep friendships.

[AZ Girl]

Stretchy Az wrote:

Az Girl..Your prior posts define you. I'd just prefer you stay away from Bisbee. Have fun!

Yeah, well I could care less about your preference. I am not coming there to see you!
And yes, thank you - I will have fun!=)

[Gulch Paranoids]

The Gulch has become, the "Buzz and the Paranoids" playing at St.Elmos who had nothing to do with the former Gulch Glory that they're trying to hang on to. It's gone, it's a myth.

If the owners were smart, they would fire Buzz from the bar, sell the place, and getting out while They can.

As Tony Soprano would say.."It's over".

[Lucifers Hammer]

AZ Girl wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah, well I could care less about your preference. I am not coming there to see you!
And yes, thank you - I will have fun!=)

Not sure how you got to be a target. Maybe there's not enough to keep the trolls angry 'round here right now, and they're restless.

[AZ Girl]

Lucifers Hammer wrote:

<quoted text>
Not sure how you got to be a target. Maybe there's not enough to keep the trolls angry 'round here right now, and they're restless.

It is o.k.- I consider the source!

[Lucifers Hammer]

Gulch Paranoids wrote:

The Gulch has become, the "Buzz and the Paranoids" playing at St.Elmos who had nothing to do with the former Gulch Glory that they're trying to hang on to. It's gone, it's a myth.
If the owners were smart, they would fire Buzz from the bar, sell the place, and getting out while They can.

"Gulch Glory"? Come now, the last time the Gulch was glorious was when the cribs and bars lined the street for blocks! As it is, the Gulch is (and has been for many years) just a street looking for some identity and stability. There's Panterra, Bizz-Art, and Elmo -- that's all there is with anything like stability. It is not St. Elmo's fault if the other buildings haven't kept tenants and businesses; as has been noted here several times, the fault more likely lies with the sleaze-pit called Goar Park (and with its de facto extension onto the terrace by the Exchange). Someone here called it the "bottleneck", and so it is.

And responsibility for Goar Park ultimately rests with the City and the police. Has anyone seen the slightest interest from either entity in "restoring the Gulch" through action on Goar?

[The Gulch Glory]

The solid friendships was the culture of the Gulch....And not the present day derisiveness caused by big butt buzz treating everyone as if he's doing everyone a favor by just showing up.

Garski, who was the most gentle man ever, was there still with hopes, dreams and a kind word. He loved the Gulch as much as anybody. Steven King at the Stock was fun and enthusiastic. Richard Fiorentino was a good friend to everybody and a great businessman. There were lovable drunks and characters all over the place.
Actually when Miller's wife managed the Copper Queen Hotel and ran the Copper Queen Bar, St. Elmo's wasn't that popular. The Queen Bar was packed most every night. Yet, the whole Gulch mentality and culture was a great place to be. The foundation was deep friendships.

[Lucifers Hammer]

Yeah -- and all those people are gone. Now what is it that you've got in mind?

This is the PRESENT, this is NOW. Living in and by the past doesn't cut it. Bewailing what you thought was history says ZIP about what's reality now -- so get a grip, get over it, get on with it.

[Lucindas Hammer]

////// Pillars of the community didn't spend a dime or lift a finger to revive, remodel or do one ounce of hard work to pull this town out of the ghost town books. "Pillars" like Ida Power and the busy body Bonnie Douglas were on the Revitalization Commette, Beautification Committee and the Main Street Committee but were useless for ideas and help////

Amen.