Were you a Bham resident in 1977?

Ashburn, VA

#44 Feb 27, 2011
Convicted burglar, Oliver Andrews says he shot and killed 14 year old baby sitter Shelia Srock so she couldn’t identify him, according to his testimony in a preliminary court hearing.
The girl was slain in January 1976 while taking care of a sisters daughter in Birmingham.
Andrews, 43, who is serving sentences totaling 101 years in Virginia, was charged with her murder last month.
On a tape played Wednesday in District Court, Andrews said he shot the girl in a panic. But under questioning by Chief Oakland County Asst Prosecutor Richard Thompson, Andrews said he shot the girl several times,“so she couldn’t be a witness”.

From the Luddington Press in July 1978.
My understanding is he had been ratted on by another inmate in VA, and hence investigated and later charged.

A link to this is on page 1 post # 18 in this forum.


Ashburn, VA

#45 Mar 12, 2011

Portraits In The Snow The Oakland County Child Killings Scandals and Small Conspiracies
This book is an overview of the circumstances of time...past and present, people, places and events surrounding these decades old unsolved serial child killings. It is seen from a perspective completely different than anything offered before. In addition to the known facts of this case; the rest of this story is based on the author's research, observations, conclusions, personal experiences and opinions.


Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#46 Mar 24, 2011
Portraits In The Snow was very well done although the tie to McKinney seems a little thin, circumstantial and anecdotal to the very thorough discussion of the sex trade and pedophile rings of the 1960's and 1970's Cass Corridor for which the author had a fantastic source. At best that tie is not complete. Ongoing DNA testing may solve that question soon enough. As it turns out there is a potential connection to McKinney and Timmy King in that McKinney as an art dealer had on occassion visited a neighbors house who was also an art collector. The book supposes that McKinney didn't have much money and could not have paid the going rate for having a child kidnapped. I'd dispute that theory, number 1 the cost would not have been as high as the author thinks, secondarily, anyone who knows the art business knows that a great portion of deals are done in cash outside of the purview of taxation. Wouldn't surprise me at all to find if McKinney is tied to the case that he did as a gallery owner in an affluent area have access to piles of cash.

The good news is this will continue to come to the surface and regardless of the time that goes by, those of us who were involved either as family members of the victims, or as friends of the victims will eventually know the truth.

I made a promise at my friends funeral to one day piss on the grave of his killer. I may be 80 when I do it but thats one promise I aim to keep.

Timmy's Friend / Yorkshire.

Ashburn, VA

#47 Apr 17, 2011
Tell me why it takes over $16,000 in attorney fees and $12,000 in "copying fees" for one agency to provide 3,000 documents in a case where every single one of the tens-of-thousands of documents should be made public?(Compare the Adam Walsh murder investigation case.) Why does it take that much money and effort to get some a-hole to sit down with an 80-year-old man and tell him the truth about the investigation into his son's murder in 1977? We've been told the MSP and the Oakland Co. Prosecutor "are bitter" about the Kings' FOIA lawsuit. A lawsuit that only resulted after the family played ball with these freaks for 29 years and then, when they asked for specific information, were dissed and blown off time and again for five more years. And what do they tell crime victims and their families every single time? Let it go, move on, forgive, get on with your life. And these people are bitter?! Dig deep, law enforcement and OCP, and rise above your bitterness TO DO YOUR JOB. Same goes for the courts in Oakland County, that seem to forget they play a part in protecting victims' rights and in enforcing the FOIA. This isn't a case where the authorities are going to do the right thing. So quit waiting for some kind of come-to-Jesus resolution and do what needs to be done! That's what you get elected to do!!

Ashburn, VA

#48 Apr 17, 2011
And, LE, while you're at it, explain why the inadequate investigation back in the day of Chris Busch and Greg Green and why the inadequate investigation then and now of John Hastings and John McKinney. This isn't a situation of hindsight is 20/20; it is a situation of WTF is going on?????

Santa Clarita, CA

#49 Apr 17, 2011
Hi CB... Love and hugs... AC

Ashburn, VA

#50 May 22, 2011

DETROIT -- With the help of DNA technology, there has been a physical match in the Oakland County Child Killer case, providing a new suspect never before named.

From February 1976 to March 1977, a serial killer was abducting and holding four young children against their will for several days before killing them, then cleaning their bodies and clothes and placing them on display throughout Metro Detroit.

For 35 years it has been an unsolved mystery with a lot of speculation, but no physical evidence.

Watch: DNA Links New Suspect In Oakland County Child Killer Case

There is new hope for solving the murders of Mark Stebbins, Kristin Mihelich, Jill Robinson and Timothy King.

There are four blockbuster new pieces of evidence:

1. White animal hair connects all four cases.
2. A DNA match from new hairs discovered on one of the victims leads to this new suspect.
3. Police find a startling drawing at a suspect's home.
4. A police report surfaces from the 1970s that sent investigators looking around a northern Michigan cottage Tuesday afternoon.

The white animal hair believed to be from a dog is found on all four victims. It tells investigators that the murders are definitely connected.

One hair was found on the body of 11-year-old King. However, it never has been revealed before that three additional hairs were found on Mihelich, including two on her blouse.

The 10-year-old girl was taken from the streets in Berkley Jan. 2 1977. Her dead body was found 19 days later, still wearing the same clothes she disappeared in. Investigators believe the hair fragments may belong to the person who dumped her body.

"Never, we never knew it," said Mihelich's sister, Erica Ascroft-McAvoy, when asked if her family ever knew there was hair found on her body.

Ascroft-McAvoy was shocked to find out about the hairs. She then was floored to find out that according to police files obtained for the first time, police have been able to make a DNA match in the Oakland County Child Killer case.

The hair found on Mihelich's blouse is a mitochondrial DNA match with a man living in Kalamazoo. But because of the quality of the hair, a perfect DNA match is impossible. A mitochondrial match narrows the hair to 1 percent of the Caucasian population. Police reports say this is "the first physical evidence match in the Oakland County Child Killer case's history."

"I think there is a mountain of evidence that in fact they will never divulge to us, even as family," said Ascroft-McAvoy.

Ashburn, VA

#51 May 22, 2011
According to police reports obtained by the Defenders, police think the hair belongs to 49-year-old James Vincent Gunnels. Gunnels was in police custody until just one month ago, living in a halfway house in Kalamazoo. He has a long history of property crimes, but never has been charged in any criminal sexual case. The victims' families in the Oakland County Child Killer case. But tonight Gunnels is a free man -- police saying they do not have enough evidence to hold him or charge him.

"Law enforcement needs to make a deal with him, extend that olive branch, and get him into a witness program, or put him some place, but they have to put the pressure on him to make him talk. He knows more," said Ascroft-McAvoy.

Police took a DNA swab of Gunnels and gave him a lie detector test while he was still in prison. Police say he intentionally held his breath to try and cause the lie detector test to be inconclusive.

While talking to his sister from prison on a recorded phone line about the Oakland County Child Killer case, Gunnels' sister said "They have your DNA on one of the victims." Gunnels' response: "I wasn't there when it happened."

"They are going on the theory that he may have possibly been the one that disposed of her body. And that if he were to pick her up and if she were to be slumped over his shoulder, they are thinking maybe that is how that hair got into, what would be the abdomen region on the blouse," said Ascroft-McAvoy.

According to hundreds of police documents scrutinized by the Defenders, investigators believe Gunnels may have been part of a group involved in the child killings or a lure to draw the kids closer to the killer. Gunnels was only 16-years-old at the time. Police investigating Gunnels have learned he was molested by a key suspect in the Oakland County Child Killer case -- a man named Christopher Busch. Busch was convicted of sexually assaulting Gunnels. Gunnels told police Busch molested him at the Busch family cottage on Ess Lake in northern Michigan.

"He said he has been up north with Busch, and took a couple of trips with him. He's been in his car hundreds of times," said Chris King, brother of Timothy King.

Investigators are looking into the possibility that Tim King was taken to that same cottage on Ess Lake. The 11-year-old disappeared from Birmingham on March 16, 1977. According to this police report obtained by the Defenders, three days later on March 19, police in Montmorency County got a call that Christopher Busch, a known pedophile, was at Ess Lake with three young boys ages 13, 14, and 15. Three days after the tip call to police, Timothy King's dead body is dumped in Livonia in the same clothes he was abducted in. The families want to know if Gunnels lured King and other kids into Busch's car and took them to the cottage.

"It would be heartbreaking to think that Tim could be in that cottage, and someone called the PD because they knew he shouldn't be around minors," said Chris King.

"They have examined people about having been used as a "lure" and how they got kids in the car," said Barry King, Tim's father.
were recently told Gunnels would stay in prison for decades unless he cooperated

Ashburn, VA

#52 May 22, 2011
"He also states that if his hair was on the victim it was because he was in Busch's car hundreds of times, which seems to put Christine Mihelich in Chris Busch's car," Chris King said.

As for Chris Busch, he cannot be prosecuted or questioned because he is dead. His body was found with a bullet between the eyes in a Bloomfield Hills home in November 1978. It was ruled a suicide. The victims families' aren't convinced. They were never told about Busch as a suspect when he was found dead. Never told that police found these blood-stained ropes in his house -- the ropes were kept in an evidence locker for years, but now have gone missing. Also, in Christopher Busch's bedroom, this frightening drawing of a young boy being tortured. It has never been seen by the public before now. Police immediately recognizing the similarities to 11-year-old victim Mark Stebbins -- abducted in Ferndale on Feb. 15, 1976. His dead body found four days later.

Remember Busch died in 1978, but police never told the families about this drawing

"I don't really want to tell you what I'm thinking about that picture," said Mike Stebbins, Mark Stebbins' brother.

Police never even told Mike Stebbins there was a drawing. He asked Local 4 to provide him with a copy saying he wants to see it. He wants the public to see it, so that someone will take action. He says you can tell by the hair, the coat, the face, that the drawing is of his brother.

"And that hurts me so freaking bad," Stebbins said.

Jill Robinson is the only one of the four victims not smothered to death. She was abducted Dec. 22, 1976. Her body was found four days later. She was shot with a 12-gauge shotgun. James Gunnels, the man whose hair was found on victim Kristin Mihelich's blouse, told police that when he was with Chris Busch at the Ess Lake cottage, Busch taught him how to shoot a 12-gauge shotgun.

The families want Busch's cottage and all other known Busch properties searched.

"I've been tearing myself up for 35 years -- because there is not a day that goes by that I don't think about this," Ascroft-McAvoy said.

On Tuesday, the Defenders were at the Ess Lake cottage up north. And so was a Wayne County prosecutor and an investigator. Wayne County is involved because Tim King's body was found in Livonia. To date, no search warrants have been executed at the home. Police did search Busch's home in Bloomfield Hills. They did not get a positive DNA match. The families were told it's too expensive to search other properties.

But the King family is offering to pay the bill. Police and prosecutors have discussed taking this evidence to a grand jury, but the plan has not moved beyond the discussion stage.

Ashburn, VA

#53 Jun 3, 2011
While the killings were occuring a Dr. Bruce L. Danto, a local psychiatrist got involved with the Oakland County Child Killer case. Danto began talking in interviews in the local newspapers about his thoughts and opinions on the killer. It's believed that the killer may have tried to establish contact with him some how with the dumping of the third confirmed victim. Kristine Mihelich's body had been found on the side of a road called Bruce Lane a theory was that the killer picked that road because Danto's name was Bruce L. Danto (L in this case being used as Lane). So then Danto began trying to talk to the killer in the papers to try to get him to turn himself in. Danto eventually received a letter from someone claiming to be the accomplice of the killer. It is thought that possibly either an accomplice, or maybe even the killer himself wrote this letter, possibly even as an attempt to toy with police. Below is the contents of the letter, exactly as it was written.
On the envelope was typed first this message
Dr. Danto
I am dsperite and nearly gone crazy and havnt got no place left to turn. I am going to comit suicide if you cant help me. Please dont give up the killer to the police. You must help me as there is no one else I cant turn to. This is for real I know who the killer is, I live with him I am his slave. He whips me and beats me all the time. And he will kill me if he finds out that I have written this letter. I have been with him in his car when we go out looking for boys but I swear I have never never never been with him when he picks up the ones he killed But I amin it in it so deep I am just as juilty to the law as he is I stayed with them here here right here in our apartment during the day while he is working. That makes me just as guilty. And no one can hear them as they gagged all the time. You know he brings them in stuffed inclothes hamper no one here knows the differences. You keep saying Oakland county not true. He has delivery rout in Oakland and Birmingham places but we live in detroit. You want to know people in this building? Primps and hookers and fags, you name it. Like on Gremlin he had it sure Grimlin until last boy but no one stops him in Detroit. He junk it out in Ohio to never be found ever. I tell you what makes him do it it Vietnam, we there together, Frank and me, oh Frank not his real name I call him that here. Nam screw up your mindtoo. Tell you something else he killed lots of little kids then with medals for it. Burned them to death bombed them with napalm it's real becautiful there doc. He wants the rich people like people in Birmingham to suffer like all of us suffered to get nothing back for what we did for out country. Hes not a monster like you think he really loves children especially that little girl for 3 weeks not doing it because he hates childrens but doing it because he hates everybody else out there and this be his way to get even and get back at everybody.
But I cannot do it any more he says he wonts but I just know he is going to kill some more. I swear I had no idea no idea he going to kill that first little boy the one with blond colored hair. I shouldn8t ever never helped but trapped too late helped him stay uncaught, I am just as guilty as he is. I cant go on like this I fell I like to die.

Ashburn, VA

#54 Jun 3, 2011
I will turn him in if you will swearnto help me. I dont want any of reward I am so afraid if I turn him in I be killed or do forever to jail for what so something I didn8t want to or didn't start. If you be real doctor you must help me. If you promise and what really promise that you not punish me like you call it immuty I meeting with you this Sunday night, I swear, I swear I tell you all of it everything I have to tell someone have to tell someone. Please please please not print this in paper he Frank kill me. I am his slave and he owns me like whatever he wants almost killed me once. I be only one alive know it him. Nobody else know. I so scared all the time policeman come to door never happen. He say we never be caught but I am scared to die. I be guilty too. I not ge be call you araid police trace all your calls back to here. But if you will onluy please please help me help me and promise me not to go to jail in writing I tell you all of it everything everything and it all be over. I never never want it to be like this with little children dead. If you will help me please please. There be no toher hope. You tell me it be all right with code in sunday papers, this sunday, news freepress. You do like other letter you write on front page of papers this sunday, it be to say, Weather beuau say Trees Bloom in 3 weeks, I know you get my letter and understdna. It mean I can trust you. I set up meeting with you, no more little childrens die. Please help me please. I feel so bad like garbage not deserve to live any more. Maybe I kill self first must get out of this some way. Please help me.
I signed Allen

Ashburn, VA

#55 Jun 3, 2011
Shortly after the letter arrived Danto and the police replied to Allen in the local paper leaving a coded message for him, then Allen actually called Danto leaving a place and time. The phone call was actually recorded.
This is the transcript of the phone call.
I want (unintelligible) immunity. I want it by tomorrow night I mean tomorrow 9:00 (unintelligible). You be at Seven Mile and Woodward you know where Gas Station Lounge, you listen to me this only time I'm calling you (unintelligible). You want hang up, you hang up (unintelligible) but this is what I'm telling you (pause). You be Gas Station Lounge tomorrow night at 9:00 with letter from governor of Michigan giving me total immunity in return I give you polaroid pictures proving he kill them (pause). That's all I'm going to say (pause). You be there (pause). This is a bar (pause). Jesus (unintelligible). Gas Station Lounge (pause). You be there (long pause). You no bring police you be there by yourself (pause). You be there 9:00 tomorrow (pause). No it's a bar you stu(unintelligible). You be there 9:00 tomorrow (pause). You no bring police I prove he kill them. That's all I say.
Danto went to the Gas Station lounge just like Allen said, with a cop disguised as a customer with him. The Gas Station as it turned out was a local gay bar. The place was full of young hustlers who were often picked up by older gay men. There was also gay prostitutes out back behind the building. While Danto sat inside chatting with the bar tender, a man with brown hair stepped off the dance floor, and came up behind him and acted like he wanted to talk, but then turned away and went to the bathroom. After he came out, he stared at Danto some more, then he walked over to the cop and asked the cop if he'd like him to buy him a drink. The cop brushed the man off thinking he was just some gay guy trying to pick him up, not realizing that it may have been "Allen". The man then walked out of the bar, never to be seen again. Officially the police state that "Allen" never showed up that night, but they did believe, that that might have been him.

Ashburn, VA

#56 Jun 3, 2011
If you believe in the letter being true,Allen must have comitted suicide soon after the bar episode. Frank kept quiet and never abducted for murder again.
Why wasn't the man at the bar followed to learn his ID?
What kind of nationality is Allen, what people talk and write in the fashion of his letter and phone conversation?
He can't be American, so how were he and Frank together in VietNam? Is Allen Vietnamese, and hooked up with Frank while Frank was a G.I. Maybe Frank made it possible for Allen to get to the States somehow and then Allen was so thankful that he did any and everything for Frank.
He said there were poloriod photos, were they just souviniers, or were they sex pics for sale? Police say they never surfaced, but do you trust police?
Frank acted alone to seek revenge because he got nothing back for serving his country. Is that a real motive?
This episode ruined the entire investigation in 1977, the answers to all of the OCCK mystery simply lost forever.

United States

#57 Aug 24, 2011

Two Grand Juries now in session investigating the case. Oakland County and Wayne County.

United States

#58 Jan 15, 2012
Critic at large

United States

#59 Jan 15, 2012
As part of an investigation into the North Fox Island pedophile ring, Busch was arrested with 8 of 18 rolls of film from there, depicting the horrific things done to little boys. This island in Grand Traverse Bay was owned and the ring was operated by Francis Sheldon. Dyer Grossman, Adam Starchild and Gerald Richards were partners. It was a sanctuary for poor at risk children but in truth it was a sanctuary for wealthy pedophiles. These children were taken there and then sold and used in the most nightmarish ways by these men. Other information surfaced that they set-up similar camps around the country using the tax exempt status of youth outreach programs and even got local state and federal funds to help operate them. Their "patrons and contributors (many connected to these pedophile activities) were also caught.
But many of them were very well connected and got away with it. Sheldon was from a family that was to the mid-west what the Kennedys were to the east coast. His involvment was hidden and covered. He left the country (some believe allowed) to leave and the whole Busch connection was covered up because of the light that would have been shed on these very wealthy men, and of course a murder made to look like a suicide. Many others involved committed "suicide" also.

United States

#60 Feb 8, 2012
There will be a show on TV tonight that will feature this case. Supposedly with newly discovered information.
It's a new series delving into cold cases.

Las Vegas, NV

#61 Feb 8, 2012
I was 12 years old at that time and had to walk to derby jr high every morning and afternoon when this was going on I cant help but wonder if me or my friends were ever watched without knowing mark king was older at my school and remember looking at him with such sorrow just saw a special on the whole murders tonight on the 'Investigative Discovery'(ID) channel what a sad sad horrible thing to re live and watch, seeing Timmy Kings dad is heartwreching!!!

Since: Mar 12

Arvada, CO

#62 Mar 26, 2012
I lived in Bloomfield Twp from 1964 through early 1976. I wondered if any of the guys mentioned in this article lived on Hickory Grove Rd west of Telegraph, in a ranch with a right-side front-load 2-car garage that was on the south side of the street, about midway between Telegraph and Franklin Rd??? The house is no longer there, having been replaced with a much-larger house since then.

The reason that I ask is that at the age of 18, in the Fall of 1975, I was hitchhiking home from my job, from near the corner of Maple and Telegraph, when I was picked-up by a white guy in a van. I had wanted to get out at Long Lake Rd but he didn't stop there, and instead waved a revolver at me, and then drove me to the Hickory Grove Rd house where his garage door opener hid what happened from his neighbor's view. At gunpoint I was forced to strip and then I was tied-up, raped, and sexually tortured, before the guy untied me and drove me to Middlebelt and Square Lake Rd and dropped me off at about 3:00 AM, where he threatened to kill me if I told anyone.

This incident was the last of at least 20 different incidents of sexual victimization that I suffered growing-up in that area, which were mainly perpetrated on me by several friends of my parents from their wacko cult church, which used to be on the SE corner of Maple and Inkster in Birmingham. There were other incidents involving people from this same church in other States too. It is interesting to me to note that two of my Bloomfield perps were the same age as Christopher Busch and Gregory Greene, and something that I didn't find-out until this past year was that perp #2 and perp #5 were good friends, and both of them also lived in Bloomfield Twp or West Bloomfield Twp at one time too.

Now at the age of 18 I would have thought that the Hickory Grove Rd perp was older than age 25 in the Fall of 1975, but I am not really sure either. No, at the time I did not tell anyone, as I was too scared that my friends would find out and ridicule me, which, looking backward, was a ruinous course of action that resulted in terrible shame, absolutely ruined self-esteem, and an out-of-control addiction to hard drugs that plagued me from 9th grade right on through my late 30s, which was when I began substance abuse and childhood sexual assault recovery, a process that took me until the Spring of 2000 to complete.

My story is also on the Male Survivor.org website, posted there on May 30th of 2008, under the username Trucker51, where I served as a childhood sexual abuse recovery mentor through May of 2010. I am also one of the 200 men that Oprah Winfrey flew to Chicago to appear on her two shows on the subject in November of 2010. My life is a far cry from where I was in 1997, when I was virtually homeless strung-out on a daily crack cocaine binge. Today I have been clean off of illegal drugs since December of 1999 and since then I have managed to hold one job for 10 years and have managed to buy 3 brand-new houses too.

Anyway, I had just hoped to discover whether any of the principals of this case had lived on Hickory Grove Rd halfway between Telegraph and Franklin, on the south side in the above-mentioned house? Looking back it probably would have saved some future victims from what happened to me then, but trying to walk home at 3:00 AM that night in 1975, so scared to death that he was coming back that I ran and hid whenever headlights approached, and this incident remained deeply buried until late in my recovery. In fact, by the time that I posted my story on Male Survivor's website in 2008, I had only told three therapists about what had happened that night, none of them before the Fall of 1997.

I would agree to reveal the names of my Bloomfield perps by private email. The one of them lives in northwest lower Michigan quite near Fox Island, and his kid is currently doing time in the Michigan pen too. Thanks to a LinkedIn invite from Chip St Clair I found this place tonight.

Jackson, MI

#63 May 30, 2012
Grayfield wrote:
If you believe in the letter being true,Allen must have comitted suicide soon after the bar episode. Frank kept quiet and never abducted for murder again.
Why wasn't the man at the bar followed to learn his ID?
What kind of nationality is Allen, what people talk and write in the fashion of his letter and phone conversation?
He can't be American, so how were he and Frank together in VietNam? Is Allen Vietnamese, and hooked up with Frank while Frank was a G.I. Maybe Frank made it possible for Allen to get to the States somehow and then Allen was so thankful that he did any and everything for Frank.
He said there were poloriod photos, were they just souviniers, or were they sex pics for sale? Police say they never surfaced, but do you trust police?
Frank acted alone to seek revenge because he got nothing back for serving his country. Is that a real motive?
This episode ruined the entire investigation in 1977, the answers to all of the OCCK mystery simply lost forever.
I recently started reading about this case and wonder why there was no follow up on this letter. Could they have found all Vietnam vets in the area and identified this guy? The letter doesn't sound contrived or made up. Could they lift prints from it? DNA from the envelope seal? Recently found the movie "Winter Soldier" that was filmed in Detroit in 1972 about these experiences in Vietnam. Could the letter have been inspired by that movie and be a fake or the killer set off by that movie-participated in the documentary as a local audience member?

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