NY Landowners' dreams fade

NY Landowners' dreams fade

Posted in the Binghamton Forum

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Jack Frack

Oneonta, NY

#1 Mar 25, 2013
Here is an excellent story by Associated Press on how NYS landowners are losing out on economic opportunities available to their neighbors only 5 or 10 miles away. This was a national AP story. It was carried in newspapers across the country, not sue ti if ever got any hard copy publishing here in the very place the story came from Broome & Tioga Counties. It is unfortunate The Press & Sun-Bulletin and Gannett are preventing their readers from seeing this information.


Dreams of gas riches fading for NY landowners

By MARY ESCH
Feb. 26 11:30 AM EST

BINGHAMTON, N.Y.(AP) When word spread about the potential natural gas riches of the Marcellus Shale, Kimberly More saw it as the hope for saving her horse farm.

She figured that leasing her 170 acres to a drilling company could bring an upfront bonus of nearly half a million dollars, plus a monthly royalty when gas starts to flow, enough to pay for a new house, a new barn and her own riding business.

"I have three young girls. My husband left," More said. "I don't want to be on social services. I want to take care of my family with my own land."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/dreams-gas-ric...

Rather than let this woman look after herself and her children, and profit with her own land, people like NY Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, Assemblywoman Donna Lupardo, Binghamton Mayor Matt Ryan, his militant crony, Tarik Abdelazim and the rest fo the riff-raff they socilaize with would rather this woman lose her land and give her a homeless shelter to live in.

This is what is wrong with New York State.
Jake

Apalachin, NY

#3 Mar 26, 2013
For someone to say ....is just say.. do you know Kimerly Morre? Do you know how much this person has in stock ( other then the stock she feeds) or the run of her business? Or what her finances are?... Does she really need the money? Or does she just want that security of staying where she is and let a company of industry to come in to release gas without concern thinking everthing will be OK. Is there a bill in place by NY for landowners to be protected from falts? could it be the increase of land tax where the farmers and most of the large land owner have to pay in tax's with nothing in return? maybe it's better to just live in the little on a little land and complain about the neighbors dog's peeing on the line fence of the property line.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#4 Mar 27, 2013
The claim the local paper is hiding the information but they did in fact publish the story:

http://www.pressconnects.com/viewart/20130226...

The other thing I find curious is that the people in the story...

Well - its a story about people that have done things like run unsuccessful businesses and gotten themselves in financial trouble... and let's face it... while getting a gas lease might bail them out... it's not going to magically provide them with any business acumen... and chances are they will be right back in the same boat they're currently in sometime down the road...

Also for the woman with the 170 acres of land but getting social services - where is the conservative outrage... because its a story of a person with a pretty significant asset which could be sold or rented or whatever and that money used to support her family... but instead she is living at least partially off the government...

That's supposed to be wrong - right ?
Hardy Wurthit

Oneonta, NY

#5 Mar 27, 2013
Vallum wrote:
Also for the woman with the 170 acres of land but getting social services - where is the conservative outrage... because its a story of a person with a pretty significant asset which could be sold or rented or whatever and that money used to support her family... but instead she is living at least partially off the government...?
You want her to sell her property now? What a simplistic and naive response.

What price do you think she should sell for?

If the NYS government would allow her to use her own property and permit gas driling the property is worth 5, 10, maybe 100 times what it is worth without a gas lease.

If she sells now for a lowball price do you think she would be entitled to sue the NYS government for the diffecn in price if they decide to allow fracking next month?

Pretty unlikely, huh.

So she is probably doing everything she can to hold on to the property and wait out the obstructionists.
Michael

Painted Post, NY

#7 Mar 27, 2013
I'm not sure why my first post of this didn't take but it's been 15 minutes and subsequent comments I made in other thread have already appeared...

So let's try it again...
Hardy Wurthit wrote:
<quoted text>
You want her to sell her property now? What a simplistic and naive response.
Yup...

You are correct that it is "simplistic" and something she should have thought about i.e. selling, renting or something -before she started digging herself into the current hole she is in where she is dependent on social services and borrowing money to pay taxes...
What price do you think she should sell for?
I would suggest the best price she can get... and with that many acres - one would guess she wouldn't have to sell everything or even that much... if selling was the option she chose...

Again there are other options such as renting out part of the land... I have a friend with several dozen acres that does that right now... a local farmer pays him to let him use about 1/3 of it for crops... and my friend uses that money to pay off the taxes for all of it and get a bit of extra spending money...

Oh and unlike those in favor of fracking in the story...

He and the guys around him went to the gas companies and leased their land and were able to even put a number of conditions in the lease e.g. no pads on their land... so I am uncertain why the people in the story didn't do the same other than a lack of foresight on their part.
If the NYS government would allow her to use her own property and permit gas driling the property is worth 5, 10, maybe 100 times what it is worth without a gas lease.
If she sells now for a lowball price do you think she would be entitled to sue the NYS government for the diffecn in price if they decide to allow fracking next month?
Pretty unlikely, huh.
So she is probably doing everything she can to hold on to the property and wait out the obstructionists.
Other than you - no one said she had to go for a "lowball price" if she decided to selling - and again sellingis just one of several options she and the others have available to them...

In fact if she were smart and decided to sell a small chunk of her 170 acre property... I see no reason she couldn't include the or a significant portion of the expected bonus in the price... the premise being that the buyer is going to take a hit up front but once fracking does start... they will be able to recoup that via the bonus they would eventually get and then continue to make money off the royalties... and that isn't even mentioning that if the sale / contract is worded properly - I see no reason the purchaser wouldn't be able to take a write-off on the portion of the sale linked to the expected future bonus that was paid to her making the deal pretty sweet for them...

See how that works ?

Now exactly why should I or anyone else feel sorry for a person sitting on 170 acres with so many options that doesn't take advantage of them... and instead draws money from the government ?
Joe PA

Windsor, NY

#9 Mar 27, 2013
You don't seem to understand how few options some of these landowners have.

Sure, they can sell their land for a fraction of what it is actually worth. Everybody wants to do that, don't they.
Geoff

Bainbridge, NY

#11 Mar 27, 2013
Work the land or get a job instead of waiting to win the lottery. There is no reason why the rest of us should suffer because they got in over their heads.

It's bad enough we bail out banks and corporations. You suggest we start bailing out individuals as well for their mistakes?

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#14 Mar 28, 2013
Geoff wrote:
Work the land or get a job instead of waiting to win the lottery.
Yeah...

I am still trying to figure out why the complete reversal of his typical arguments... I mean to him someone like a single mother in a city that rents i.e. doesn't have any assets to fall back on in any way is a horrible and lazy person for taking money from the government... yet here we have the same scenario except the people in question have significant assets and many options they can pursue... but we don't hear typical name calling or statements that they should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps...

Btw...

I was talking on the phone last night with a buddy of mine that has several hundred acres down outside of Birmingham AL and we were talking about this... his suggestion was that the guy with the hundreds of wooded acres in the story do what he does i.e. find a timber company and let them cut / harvest with a guarantee of replanting... and as he pointed out - his property is mostly pine and such... and something around here if it's old growth with lots of hardwoods and such - should bring in a pretty penny...

As for the woman and her talking about how if she had the money she could start a horse farm... yeah - thinking more about that - if her business plan were truly viable and she could figure out how to manager her own finances... then there is nothing to stop her from writing it up and getting a loan from the SBA pool or similar... especially since she has plenty of collateral she can use to back up the loan...

Gee...

I can't help thinking - wouldn't it be nice if all of us had as much wealth and as many options as the folks in the story ?
Jake

Apalachin, NY

#15 Mar 28, 2013
Lawsuits come to mind when we all can see how the farmer has to struggle. how many fruit and Veggatable stand's do you see along the road these day's during the growing seasons? NY is not business friendly to an at home/farm permit to sell, and the red tape and BS shows us all why it cost a dollar for one Macintosh apple or a hothouse Tomatoe in the stores year around. A framer has to be careful giving a freshly squeezed beverage or free produce away without having the chance of being sued.

There is a Dairy Farmer in the town of Maine who has been paid by the Government for years now not to farm. He makes more money now then if he would if still working the farm. their are many more past time farmers having the same pleasure of getting paid for nothing. I would like to read his government contract and wonder if they would be allowed to have O/G drilling to take place on his property.

If it ever comes a time when Government take's over Dairy farming.......do i need to say more?.but i will, All dairy product will cost a lot more and give us all something more to bitch about.
Jake

Apalachin, NY

#16 Mar 28, 2013
I would like to add. dont let these local farmers markets fool ya, it a distribution of same merchandise that get's delivered to the stores. do your really see a price difference? Or the site of even looking like they where vine picked? Just another scam from politicians to put the NY farmers in the large Tax Zone with nothing in return just to keep their land. no investments these day's in buying land. it's just a gamble in NY. The large investors gave up trying to buy large land and if you look at all the land in broome from just one realitor will tell ya it's going cheap.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#17 Mar 28, 2013
Check out sites like this one:

http://www.landwatch.com/default.aspx...

Properties with access to utilities but no necessarily run to them in Broome Co. are still selling at $3,000 to $5,000 per acre...

The cheap ones i.e. like that link will take you to are going for only $1,000 to $2,000 an acre but the gotcha is the seller wants to retain all mineral rights and things like easements... which means the buyer could end up with a compression plant and pipeline running right through their scenic property with few / no ability to stop it... which imho isn't a good deal for them...

Anyway...

That means the people in the article where they mentioned acreage... on the low end they're sitting on a $500,000 and $1,250,000 worth of assets respectively... and I'm sorry but with that in mind - I have a hard time feeling sorry for them...
Jake

Apalachin, NY

#18 Mar 28, 2013
Yes...people need to be careful and look at the outer limits.
Jake

Apalachin, NY

#19 Mar 28, 2013
Going to keep this short.. from a previous point of a past post is for me to point out that logging on land is not an everyday way, year or years and by any means staying stable in the money market. logging is to allow the smaller trees and seedlings to mature. smaller branches left behind can be used for cooking and keeping warm, but then that again is another nay say to the unknown of the tree huggers with hammocks and using floor joists for support.
Nat Ghast

Romania

#20 Mar 29, 2013
One-hundred and seventy-five million dollars paid out in Susquehanna Count, PAy in three years.(With the typical economic multiplier effect that works out to about ONE-BILLION AND TWO-HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE MILLIONS DOLLARS $1,225,000,000....)

In Broome County in the last three years? Zero, zilch, nada, nothing, isn't it?

http://independentwe...ducing- 1-bcfday

Liberal NYS Democrats like Sheldon Silver, Donna Lupardo and Matthew T. Ryan are crippling NYS

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#21 Mar 29, 2013
Please refer to the following thread on this site where you previously posted an identical comment and it was replied to:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/binghamton-ny...

Seriously...

The only thing you are accomplishing by posting the same tripe over and over is to make yourself appear as nothing more than a spammer... or that you're suffering from alzheimers... neither of which is very flattering or helps your argument...
Roger Rebuttal

Oneonta, NY

#23 Apr 1, 2013
At least you have read the posts twice, that makes it all worthehile

The argument is very concise:

One-hundred and seventy-five million dollars paid out in Susquehanna Count, PAy in three years.(With the typical economic multiplier effect that works out to about ONE-BILLION AND TWO-HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE MILLIONS DOLLARS $1,225,000,000....)

In Broome County in the last three years? Zero, zilch, nada, nothing, isn't it?

http://independentwe...ducing- 1-bcfday

Liberal NYS Democrats like Sheldon Silver, Donna Lupardo and Matthew T. Ryan are crippling NYS

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#24 Apr 1, 2013
I and I am sure others are still waiting for you to provide your math...

You know...

Where you came up with a 7x multiplier... which you have been unable or unwilling to substantiate - even though you've had a week to do so...
Jake

Apalachin, NY

#26 Apr 4, 2013
I think i heard Roger and Out and that was it..Zero, zich, nada, nothing, communications must be out of service.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#28 Apr 20, 2013
Jack Frack wrote:
Here is an excellent story by Associated Press on how NYS landowners are losing out on economic opportunities available to their neighbors only 5 or 10 miles away. This was a national AP story. It was carried in newspapers across the country, not sue ti if ever got any hard copy publishing here in the very place the story came from Broome & Tioga Counties. It is unfortunate The Press & Sun-Bulletin and Gannett are preventing their readers from seeing this information.
May I present from BCVOice on the same day / apx time by a "guest":

"Here is an excellent story by Associated Press on how NYS landowners are losing out on economic opportunities available to their neighbors only 5 or 10 miles away. This was a national AP story. It was carried in newspapers across the country, everywhere except in the very place the story came from Broome & Tioga Counties. It is unfortunate The Press & Sun-Bulletin and Gannett are preventing their readers from seeing this information."

Another user pointed out to him that:

"It was published in our local newspaper you whiny man-child"

And the next day on the Facebook page of Ed Arzouian:

"Here is an excellent story by Associated Press on how NYS landowners are losing out on economic opportunities available to their neighbors only 5 or 10 miles away. This was a national AP story. It was carried in newspapers across the country, everywhere except in the very place the story came from Broome & Tioga Counties. It is unfortunate The Press & Sun-Bulletin and Gannett are preventing their readers from seeing this information."

Holy carp !!!

Exactly how many ids does Arzouian use on this site... as in addition to the various proxies we've been seeing him use... it looks like the posts showing as Endicott ( his work computer ?) that are filled with nasty-grams are also his...

Here is another interesting find from a month ago:

Marcellus Shale on BCVoice "Newspapers keep these guys like Rossie around decades after they have ceased to be relevant."

Ed Arzouian on Facebook "Do we need more proof Rossie is an irrelevant old man who should have probably called it quits two decades ago"

What makes that funny is that just recently our lil Marcellus Shale was getting himself all flustered when it was pointed out he slipped up and exposed himself as actually being Arzouian over on the Gannett sites... yet there we are... lol !!!

Btw...

To the intrepid investigator that found these and forwarded them to me... thanks - I needed the laugh !!!

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#29 Apr 20, 2013
Sorry and just a correction...

The post by Arzouian using the Jack Frack id was made on the 25th... that is to say - the day after he was told in response to his other copies of his comments:

"It was published in our local newspaper you whiny man-child"

Which is why you see him change the original line in the middle of the paragraph from:

"It was carried in newspapers across the country, everywhere except in the very place the story came from Broome & Tioga Counties"

To the later version:

"It was carried in newspapers across the country, not sue ti if ever got any hard copy publishing here in the very place the story came from Broome & Tioga Counties."

Just wanted to fix the mis-ordering of his posts in my comments... but what can I say - he spams so many places using so many names... it really is hard to keep even a cursory track of his lunacy...

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