one billion cubic feet per day!!!!!!

one billion cubic feet per day!!!!!!

Posted in the Binghamton Forum

First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Nat Ghast

Oneonta, NY

#1 Mar 27, 2013
That's what Cabot Oil is producing in Susquehanna County, PA.

What are they producing in Broome County NY on their border?????

ZERO, nothing, nada, zilch.

One-hundred and seventy-five million dollars paid out in leases in Susquehanna County in three years.(With the typical economic multiplier effect that works out to about ONE-BILLION AND TWO-HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE MILLIONS DOLLARS $1,225,000,000....)

In Broome County in the last three years? Zero, again, isn't it?


http://independentweekender.com/index.php/201...

Liberal NYS Democrats like Sheldon Silver, Donna Lupardo and Matthew T. Ryan are crippling NYS.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#2 Mar 27, 2013
Nat Ghast wrote:
That's what Cabot Oil is producing in Susquehanna County, PA.
What are they producing in Broome County NY on their border?????
ZERO, nothing, nada, zilch.
One-hundred and seventy-five million dollars paid out in leases in Susquehanna County in three years.(With the typical economic multiplier effect that works out to about ONE-BILLION AND TWO-HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE MILLIONS DOLLARS $1,225,000,000....)
In Broome County in the last three years? Zero, again, isn't it?
http://independentweekender.com/index.php/201...
1) The article you linked in the other thread you created actually stated that a number of folks have signed leases and have received bonuses... so your "zero" estimate is not only incorrect but contradicts your prior comments...

2) I love how you grab the economic multiplier of 7x (?) out of thin air... especially when - again - your own posts point to people that are currently taking welfare payments... or are behind on taxes... or are behind on mortgages... which means if you don't understand - the multiplier for those amounts which you make out to be quite significant... amounts to a grand total of 0x... in other words - show your work and don't go making claims without supporting them...

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#4 Mar 27, 2013
Something worth mentioning / pointing folks to...

http://www.fracktrack.org/searchexp.php...

Cabot Oil & Gas has 413 wells showing... many of them just permits issued at this time and more where drilling has just started i.e. that's what spudding means on that page's legend...

Yet there are already 449 separate violations and there is 1 well that all by itself has 19 violations...

I guess now we know why they put that money toward paying for a local hospital... lol !!!
Joe PA

Windsor, NY

#6 Mar 27, 2013
The multiplier effect of 7X times is rather typical. It is the factor normally used in econmic impact forecasts. Ask an economist.

You seem very confused.

The woman on welfare in NYS she gets no royaltites.

The $1,225,000,000 in total economic benefits was paid out in Susquehanna County, PA, not NYS.

Most of that money is staying in PA, though there is probably some overflow to some stores and hotels/motels in NYS near the PA border.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#7 Mar 27, 2013
Joe PA wrote:
You seem very confused.
The woman on welfare in NYS she gets no royaltites.
Your premise was that if horizontal fracking were allowed in NY then folks like the woman on welfare and so on... would somehow contribute to a 7x multiplier just by replacing ( not adding ) to their income sources... but it doesn't work that way...

Also despite being asked to back up your claim of a 7x multiplier... it is clear you couldn't and so had to just continue your unsubstantiated claim that it is "typical"...

There is something "typical" there but its not the multiplier you're using...

So as you would say - you seem very confused...
Nat Ghast

Romania

#8 Mar 29, 2013
You obviously don't even know what a multiplier is.

In the meantime...

One-hundred and seventy-five million dollars paid out in Susquehanna Count, PAy in three years.(With the typical economic multiplier effect that works out to about ONE-BILLION AND TWO-HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE MILLIONS DOLLARS $1,225,000,000....)

In Broome County in the last three years? Zero, zilch, nada, nothing, isn't it?

http://independentwe...ducing- 1-bcfday

Liberal NYS Democrats like Sheldon Silver, Donna Lupardo and Matthew T. Ryan are crippling NYS
Geoff

Bainbridge, NY

#9 Mar 29, 2013
Ed Arzouian - do you think if you repeat yourself enough no matter how wrong you are you will eventually become right?

You were voted Broome County's biggest liar for a reason.....
John Cabot

Oneonta, NY

#10 Mar 29, 2013
Not sure where you see a lie.

$175 million was paid out in gas leases in three years in Susquehanna County, PA by Cabot Oil - FACT.

Typically to account for total economic benefits you would multiply that by 7 - FACT.

Therefore there is well over $1.2 BILLION in economic benefits from natural gas leases from Cabot Oil alone in one PA county. FACT

That doesn’t even begin to count things like the $2,000,000 they donated to build a new hospital in Montrose, PA.

If you have any economic facts you want to share with us, please do.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#11 Mar 29, 2013
Nat Ghast wrote:
You obviously don't even know what a multiplier is.
John Cabot wrote:
Not sure where you see a lie.
$175 million was paid out in gas leases in three years in Susquehanna County, PA by Cabot Oil - FACT.
Typically to account for total economic benefits you would multiply that by 7 - FACT.
Let's see...

I pointed out reasons why the economic multiplier wouldn't be that high for at least some of the money i.e. it's not new revenue as much as it is a replacement of a revenue source... that and the fact that 60% plus of the employees will be from out of state i.e. a large portion of the money will also end up out of state and have no effect in PA...

You when asked to substantiate how you came up with an economic multiplier of 7 have been unable to... and instead just continue to say it's "typical" and to call other users names...

So I think it's to everyone but you which one of us doesn't have a clue as to what an economic multiplier is and how they're calculated...
That doesn’t even begin to count things like the $2,000,000 they donated to build a new hospital in Montrose, PA.
I haven't heard anyone say that wasn't a nice gesture on their part... but let's be realistic...$2M would barely cover the cost of buying and installing a single small to medium size MRI machine...
If you have any economic facts you want to share with us, please do.
How about this...

Exactly how much is it that Broome County / Preston is spending to set up an office to try and lure the gas companies into the area... when we don't even know if it will be allowed due to state level laws ?
N Ghast

Oneonta, NY

#13 Apr 1, 2013
So what multipier would you suggest?

One-hundred and seventy million dollars($175,000,000) in gas leases in one PA county in thre years by one oil & gas company. There are other companies and there are pipline leases and many other businesses spending money there.

But regardless, by what multiplier do you want to multiply?

$175,000,000 X y = Z

Go ahead.

We can do the NY math:

$0 X y = 0

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#14 Apr 1, 2013
N Ghast wrote:
So what multipier would you suggest?
Seeing as you're the one that brought economic multipliers into the discussion and insisted on using your own for your little "argument"...

As an adult - it falls on YOUR HEAD and no one else's to substantiate YOUR claims...

Now why don't you try doing that or explain in detail how you came up with your magic 7x multiplier... or be a man and admit your fabricated it out of whole cloth..

Thanks !

P.S. I find it curious how I post saying I was heading out and you jump on and spam this site... alas - the start time for my meeting got pushed out a half hour... lucky you !
Tex McCoy

United States

#16 Apr 1, 2013
Vallum wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Let's see...
I pointed out reasons why the economic multiplier wouldn't be that high for at least some of the money i.e. it's not new revenue as much as it is a replacement of a revenue source... that and the fact that 60% plus of the employees will be from out of state i.e. a large portion of the money will also end up out of state and have no effect in PA...
Vallum, you seemed very confused. What does the money paid out in gas leases to local landowners have to do with who the employees hired by the gas companies are or where they come from?

The money paid out to employees of gas companies is above and beyond the gas leases and royalties to landowners. One has NOTHING to do with the other. If you want to argue the multiplier effect of salaries paid to gas companies employees is less than 7X, go ahead.

That has nothing to do with leases to local landowners.

Contrary to your attempt at an explanation, gas lease money is a TOTALLY NEW INJECTION OF FUNDS into that local market.

Do you get it yet?

Let's try explaining it to you again since you are slow.

In three years one gas company in one northeastern county in Pennsylvania has paid out $175,000,000 in gas leases to landowners. Using the typical economic multiplier of &X than translates to about $1,200,000,000 in economic benefits to the county. Remember that is just one gas company. There are others. There are also pipeline companies paying leases to landowners. If you want to add some portion of gas company employees' salaries to that go ahead.....

We are talking about multiple billions of dollars all in only one small rural county.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#17 Apr 1, 2013
Tex McCoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Vallum, you seemed very confused. What does the money paid out in gas leases to local landowners have to do with who the employees hired by the gas companies are or where they come from?
The reason it is pertinent was the OP and his follow up was trying to claim a 7x economic multiplier on the royalties... but as already pointed out his own prior posts were showing that a lot of that money isn't "new" - it would instead be replacing some of their debt and getting some of the folks off welfare / similar programs...

In other words...

We're talking about money with an economic multiplier that is nowhere near 7x... and I've even invited him to prove me wrong but all anyone has seen is him cutting and pasting the same thing without substantiating it...

Tying that into the workers and their pay and how most of them are from out of state - and that is where their money goes...

He has tried to pull that himself in other threads... that is to say make claim that so many jobs would go to locals that the economies would immediately and forever be wonderful... and has tried to tie that to his "economic multiplier" - though in those cases he didn't explicitly say 7x...

In other words - I was just nipping it in the bud - again...

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#18 Apr 1, 2013
A sentiment shared by many books, studies and so forth in regard to economic multipliers:

"Any output multiplier larger than 2.5 should be especially examined!"

Mulkey, 1978

That's just one example of many saying literally the same thing... yet you're using a 7.0 multiplier and claiming it's typical... and as already noted - are unable to support that number with any empirical evidence...

How about some other facts that kind of cause your claims problems...

- Pennsylvania was the 4th largest coal producer in 2000... NG is replacing a lot of coal use... so less demand for coal which means fewer jobs / more folks in that industry out of work... in other words - offsetting at least part of any gains in local employment and income in the fracking / NG industry...

- most of the industry supported studies present unrealistic expectations in the regard to both hiring and spending e.g. they'll assume that something like 90% or more of the money earned will be spent... but a look at what has happened in PA with royalties paints a different picture... one where 55% of that money went into saving instead of the economy... Kelsey et al.(2011)

- in PA over the six year period from 2004 through 2010 the increase of employment in the gas / oil industry was only from 0.30% to 0.48%... to put that in perspective Walmart employs twice as many local people in PA as the oil and gas industry... DOE 2011

- speaking of the employment part... various non-industry studies have shown a multiplier as low as 1.4 .... Barth 2010

- few to none of the industry studies take into account environment and similar damage that invariably occurs... damage which causes a negative effect on the economy e.g. tourism, land prices and so forth... Weinstein / Partridge 2011

Etc. etc. etc....

Like I've said before...

It's not that I think the gas industry is so horrible... and I would actually be open to fracking if certain reasonable conditions - already outline in other threads - were met...

But when you come on here spouting utter nonsense and refuse to support anything you're saying... and instead degrade into name calling and similar... people such as myself are going to view you in - at the very best - a negative light... and as you're trying to support the gas industry with your antics... people are associating your negative behavior with them / that industry - and it's damaging them...

Maybe that's your real intent ?!
Tru Datt

Windsor, NY

#21 Apr 3, 2013
Vallum you have completely FAILED to explain why you tried to discuss gas company salaries when the point being made was about gas lease revenue and the gas employees (and where they might be from) had nothing to do with that.

Instead you want to change the subject?

I guess that's understandable since you obviously can't explain your error.

FYI if you want to use a multiplier of 1.4, then we have as leases from one gas company in one county in generating $245,000,000 in economic benefits while in Broome County, NY the benefit is about ZERO$.

So we have two-hundred and forty-five million dollars compared to $0.

Thank you for your input.

I'm glad we cleared that up.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#22 Apr 3, 2013
Tru Datt wrote:
Vallum you have completely FAILED to explain why you tried to discuss gas company salaries when the point being made was about gas lease revenue and the gas employees (and where they might be from) had nothing to do with that.
Instead you want to change the subject?
Actually I already explained that and it seems you are again suffering from your ESL issues...

Again - in other threads and other posts you have tried to also make claim to outrageous economic benefits of fracking... and have tried tossing employment into the issues...

As you are a creature of habit i.e. read that as you're known to simply repeat yourself sometimes dozens and dozens of times... I figured I might as well ALSO cover that item... since we were assured you would invariable bring it up yourself anyway...
I guess that's understandable since you obviously can't explain your error.
Let's see... what you consider my "error" is:

- showing your many posts claiming a 7x multiplier was incorrect and that you had more than a week to back up your claim... and still have not been able to...

- again pointed out why your other refrain of employment being brought to the area was also incorrect in claimed magnitude...

Oh I feel so embarrassed... lol !!!
FYI if you want to use a multiplier of 1.4, then we have as leases from one gas company in one county in generating $245,000,000 in economic benefits while in Broome County, NY the benefit is about ZERO$.
So we have two-hundred and forty-five million dollars compared to $0.
Thank you for your input.
I'm glad we cleared that up.
Wow... comprehension issues on your side...

The 1.4 multiplier I cited in that list of items that refute most of your normal claims... is prefixed with "speaking of the employment part" ...

Last but not least and as has also already been pointed out... I personally know folks that have signed leases over the past several years... and even the article mentioned them...

So while no royalties yet... claiming that folks in Broome Co etc. have seen $0 in economic benefits is something we all know is false... kind of like most things that come out of your mouth.
Tru Datt

Windsor, NY

#23 Apr 3, 2013
Vallum wrote:
Oh I feel so embarrassed... lol !!!
Yes, you should.
With just one company in one county in PA providing $245,000,000 in econominc benefts (imagine what all the companies have spent in all the PA counites!!!) while in Broome County they have yet to see hardly anything.
It is embarrassing. It is disheartening.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#24 Apr 3, 2013
Tru Datt wrote:
<quoted text>
while in Broome County they have yet to see hardly anything.
Just so we are clear...

You spent more than a week... and who knows how many posts here ( some have been removed ) and elsewhere... claiming a multiplier you still can't substantiate... and now you're also backing down from your many claims that Broome Co./ NY has seen no revenue from gas companies...

Btw...

You should check out the link I provided earlier because it shoots yet another hole in your argument... as regular drilling has and still gets done in and around the area... and contrary to your claims - royalties etc. do get / are getting paid...

The more ya know - huh ?!
Roger Rebutt

Windsor, NY

#25 Apr 3, 2013
Michael you're a bore...

Billions are being made in PA while NYS is seeing a few thousand.

“Words are words are words.”

Since: Mar 13

Earth

#26 Apr 3, 2013
Roger Rebutt wrote:
Michael you're a bore...
NYS is seeing a few thousand.
Please back up your claim that its just a "few thousand" i.e. representing it as though all the leases that were made... and the currently pumping gas wells... that the land owners in totality in NY only receive a few thousand dollars...

Difficulty:

Just 1 of the people I know in NY that signed a lease took in a 6 figure payment all by himself... quite a bit more than the "few thousand" you claim...

LOL !!!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Binghamton Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
NYS missingpersons="Retired" NYS troop C in Flo... 1 min timmy 15
model citizens 3 min bad bad boys 2
BC Voice Owner Guilty 5 hr Squid 166
Pressconnets reporter Anthony James Borrelli Wed Failed Reporter B... 9
Why does Binghamton and Broome County suck so bad? (Apr '12) Jan 18 conklincolt 74
News Bank Robbery: Suspect nabbed in Binghamton Jan 9 Mariah Carey 1
Loud boom Jan 9 Mariah Carey 4

Binghamton Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Binghamton Mortgages