Does America still need affirmative action...

[Jack Corsaut]

SamoanAfrican wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree, I hate it when people claim that minorites and women get everything handed to them. Yeah, women gettin paid 60% of what a man makes is gettin something handed to you alright. My sister also saw a program a few years back on BET, and she told me that the show showed how lighter skin blacks get paid more than darker skin blacks, and black women get paid less than anyone else on the workforce.
Nice equality there that America claims to have.

True - it's not equal - just more equal than any other country on earth in history.

The struggle is not over. But to ignore the good changes is to slap down the very people who really do believe in a world of equality, and work for it every day.

[SamoanAfrican]

Jack Corsaut wrote:

<quoted text>
True - it's not equal - just more equal than any other country on earth in history.
The struggle is not over. But to ignore the good changes is to slap down the very people who really do believe in a world of equality, and work for it every day.

That's an overstatement. America is not more equal than ANY other country on the planet, many times, statements like that stem from egotism (not trying to say you're being egotisical).
But you're right, the struggle isn't over, and when I say things like this, I'm not trying to bring the good people who work for others in this country.
I only said that America claims things that they can't even back up, I didn't say that America isn't the most oppressive place on the planet, or that anything like that. I merely said that it's hypocritial. There are MANY great countires on the earth, America in not the ONLY place where "equality" exists.
Women in other countries are able to be in combat postitions without any restrictions. Some countries are even better at maternal needs for women in workforce. America has some ways to go in some aspects. No country is perfect, and America is a great place to live, and I apperciate everything that women and minorites try to do to make this a better place to live.

[Jack Corsaut]

SamoanAfrican wrote:

<quoted text>
That's an overstatement. America is not more equal than ANY other country on the planet, many times, statements like that stem from egotism (not trying to say you're being egotisical).
But you're right, the struggle isn't over, and when I say things like this, I'm not trying to bring the good people who work for others in this country.
I only said that America claims things that they can't even back up, I didn't say that America isn't the most oppressive place on the planet, or that anything like that. I merely said that it's hypocritial. There are MANY great countires on the earth, America in not the ONLY place where "equality" exists.
Women in other countries are able to be in combat postitions without any restrictions. Some countries are even better at maternal needs for women in workforce. America has some ways to go in some aspects. No country is perfect, and America is a great place to live, and I apperciate everything that women and minorites try to do to make this a better place to live.

Name some other countries where any culture whatsoever can live and prosper better than in the U.S. There are countries that have some aspect or another of equality but no where is there the complete package as there is in the U.S. People like you (and I like your posts, as I've said before) forget you are protesting openly without fear and can be part of a movement to continue to improve the community for everyone.

Every country claims to be the best and makes claims they can't back up - so what?

Where else is there the melting pot of cultures that exists here. I, like many, continue to be disgusted by the remnants of racism in this nation but that does not blind me to the strides we make every year that goes by. Are we there yet? No.

My axe to grind is with illegal immigration from our southern border. These people HATE us yet want all the free stuff they can suck up. And our corrupt politicians simper and pander to these real racists.

The problem is that there MUST eventually be a backlash, and that will probably mean a step backwards to more racism. And all of us striving towards a more just society will be the victims of this totally political fiasco.

[SamoanAfrican]

Jack Corsaut wrote:

<quoted text>
Name some other countries where any culture whatsoever can live and prosper better than in the U.S. There are countries that have some aspect or another of equality but no where is there the complete package as there is in the U.S. People like you (and I like your posts, as I've said before) forget you are protesting openly without fear and can be part of a movement to continue to improve the community for everyone.
Every country claims to be the best and makes claims they can't back up - so what?
Where else is there the melting pot of cultures that exists here. I, like many, continue to be disgusted by the remnants of racism in this nation but that does not blind me to the strides we make every year that goes by. Are we there yet? No.
My axe to grind is with illegal immigration from our southern border. These people HATE us yet want all the free stuff they can suck up. And our corrupt politicians simper and pander to these real racists.
The problem is that there MUST eventually be a backlash, and that will probably mean a step backwards to more racism. And all of us striving towards a more just society will be the victims of this totally political fiasco.

Before we go any further, can you please define what you mean by "prosper"? I know what it means, but I just want to know your take on it. Before I forget, there's countries in Europe, and places like New Zealand where people are allowed to speak out to better their place. And Sirrea Leonne actually has freedom of religion that the government firecly protects (which is why there's been extermely few cases lately of religious conflict), despite how much people generalize Africa and say that EVERY country is at war or has no freedom.

And I like your posts too, at least you actually give explanations and state your opionoin (don't think I spelled that right, lol) without bringing others down, I really appreciate that.

[Jack Corsaut]

I think in this country "prosper" can mean more than one one thing. People have traditionally come here because the promise has been that as long as you play by the rules you can live any way as you please. One person may disdain the b.s. of the making money rat race and instead strive to be an excellent mechanic or welder or whatever. To another it may mean being a farmer, to another it may mean for the first time in a families history someone goes to medical or legal or engineering school. All examples of prospering.

We in the the U.S. do not live up to our promises in some ways but we do in others. But, no where else on the globe can someone re-invent themselves like in the U.S. We have public colleges and trade schools galore, and the people from the east especially appreciate it as in the east, if you don't have a career by age 20 or so than you are trash for the rest of your life - no more chances. Not so in the U.S. In the U.S., one can fail, and pick up and re-invent yourself and go on to a new beginning.

And I would repeat my point which is: there are many countries that have some of what the U.S. offers to the humble person who just wants to improve the circumstance for themselves and their families. But no country really offers what the U.S. does. Are we perfect? No.

You brought up New Zealand. New Zealand, for the most part, does not allow permanent immigrants. America, on the other hand, actually has an argument going on about how much sucking up we need to do to a bunch of illegals who hate the U.S.

The U.S. is not perfect. Blacks have a real reason to be angry, mostly because of unequal primary education and unequal policing. I like black people and always have. The hispanics I used to love but I have fallen out of love. They need to get their act together. They were never slaves and there has never been any racial oppression regardless of what the La Raza racists say.

They have turned into a culture of petty con artists and they play the corrupt politicians like musical instruments.

I rambled a bit, but I hope I answered your question...

[SamoanAfrican]

Jack Corsaut wrote:

I think in this country "prosper" can mean more than one one thing.
I rambled a bit, but I hope I answered your question...

Hey, sorry for the late response, and thanks for anwsereing my question.=)
I view other countries with a different aspect. I don't view them with a American point of view, so to speak.
I totally understand where you're coming from, and I actually agree with some of what you say. But again, you can't say for certain that NOWHERE on the globe can people reinvet themselves like people do in America. I've seen many examples of prostitues in Africa finding help in Christ, and doing things to help the well being of Africa by their own means- sometimes they open up shops, feed the poor, etc. Same with India, and in India, women actually have it BETTER within the corporate world, because they don't suffer from the glass celing. I've read that Western women who go there for business say it's ALOT easier to work with Indian men in the corporate world, than it is to work with American men.
You also brought up the east, do you mean the far east? Because in south Asia (India), the middle east, etc., people are very set into providing for their families, or starting one, and men and women alike usually wait until their late 20's, or middle 30's to actually get off their feet.
Yes, America is a nice place to live, and does need some improvement for us AA's, but for me, there is a lot more to the world than JUST America. I like America's multicultural thing it's got goin on, but do people in America REALLY (sorry, couldn't itlaizize) apperciate having different cultures? Many kids I attend school with make fun of others who aren't American, and stupidly and selfishly think the whole world should be American. What kind of crap is that? They're so ignorant, that they actully think Indians are Arab, and that ALL Muslims are Arab.
So much for the No Child Left Behind act.
But I apperciate the people who work to improve this place, and serve in the military. I was actually thinking of joining the military when I turned 18, but I have asthma, and probably would make it pas MEPS. The reason why I wanted to join, was not out patriotism-(because I'm NOT a patriotic person and because as an AA's I'm naturally pissed at this country) but out of apperciation for this place allowing me to do what I want MOST of the time.

[SamoanAfrican]

^^^^^^^^
Sorry for all the typos.

[Jack Corsaut]

SamoanAfrican wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey, sorry for the late response, and thanks for anwsereing my question.=)
I view other countries with a different aspect. I don't view them with a American point of view, so to speak.
I totally understand where you're coming from, and I actually agree with some of what you say. But again, you can't say for certain that NOWHERE on the globe can people reinvet themselves like people do in America. I've seen many examples of prostitues in Africa finding help in Christ, and doing things to help the well being of Africa by their own means- sometimes they open up shops, feed the poor, etc. Same with India, and in India, women actually have it BETTER within the corporate world, because they don't suffer from the glass celing. I've read that Western women who go there for business say it's ALOT easier to work with Indian men in the corporate world, than it is to work with American men.
You also brought up the east, do you mean the far east? Because in south Asia (India), the middle east, etc., people are very set into providing for their families, or starting one, and men and women alike usually wait until their late 20's, or middle 30's to actually get off their feet.
Yes, America is a nice place to live, and does need some improvement for us AA's, but for me, there is a lot more to the world than JUST America. I like America's multicultural thing it's got goin on, but do people in America REALLY (sorry, couldn't itlaizize) apperciate having different cultures? Many kids I attend school with make fun of others who aren't American, and stupidly and selfishly think the whole world should be American. What kind of crap is that? They're so ignorant, that they actully think Indians are Arab, and that ALL Muslims are Arab.
So much for the No Child Left Behind act.
But I apperciate the people who work to improve this place, and serve in the military. I was actually thinking of joining the military when I turned 18, but I have asthma, and probably would make it pas MEPS. The reason why I wanted to join, was not out patriotism-(because I'm NOT a patriotic person and because as an AA's I'm naturally pissed at this country) but out of apperciation for this place allowing me to do what I want MOST of the time.

You need to travel. Then come back to America and see if your perceptions are the same...

[SamoanAfrican]

Jack Corsaut wrote:

<quoted text>
You need to travel. Then come back to America and see if your perceptions are the same...

I can't travel, I'm not old enough to even buy cigarrettes. >.<
I still think you're holding an overbearing view twoard the rest of the world. I'm just trying to be open to the fact there are great places out there. Like I said, there must be more to the world than America, which is why I intend to travel when I'm able to do so.

[Jack Corsaut]

SamoanAfrican wrote:

<quoted text>
I can't travel, I'm not old enough to even buy cigarrettes. >.<
I still think you're holding an overbearing view twoard the rest of the world. I'm just trying to be open to the fact there are great places out there. Like I said, there must be more to the world than America, which is why I intend to travel when I'm able to do so.

Yes there are great places. I'm just saying this one is great too.

I am sickened by the injustices that go on in this nation but I would be limited indeed if I did not also recognize the improvements that happen all the time - that would be a slap in the face to everyone who works so hard for a better world.

And regarding AA, I think if schools at the primary level were improved (equal for everyone) there would be no need for AA.

The problem here in CA is that local schools are financed by the local tax base. Elitists say "I pay more taxes so it's fair that my kids get a better school".

The problem is that the public schools are a STATE agency, not a municipal one. They should be financed like any other state agency - equally across the board.

Cal Trans is the state agency that repairs our roads. Imagine if they were financed the same way.

Therein lies the problem (or at least part of it). I would rather fix the problem then perpetuate patronage because even though freebies are nice, they actually insult the people who are patronized by implying they will never succeed unless big white brother sugar coats the road for them.

[Swade da diamond princess]

um yo buss it baaabaaay!

[SamoanAfrican]

Jack Corsaut wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes there are great places. I'm just saying this one is great too.
I am sickened by the injustices that go on in this nation but I would be limited indeed if I did not also recognize the improvements that happen all the time - that would be a slap in the face to everyone who works so hard for a better world.
And regarding AA, I think if schools at the primary level were improved (equal for everyone) there would be no need for AA.
The problem here in CA is that local schools are financed by the local tax base. Elitists say "I pay more taxes so it's fair that my kids get a better school".
The problem is that the public schools are a STATE agency, not a municipal one. They should be financed like any other state agency - equally across the board.
Cal Trans is the state agency that repairs our roads. Imagine if they were financed the same way.
Therein lies the problem (or at least part of it). I would rather fix the problem then perpetuate patronage because even though freebies are nice, they actually insult the people who are patronized by implying they will never succeed unless big white brother sugar coats the road for them.

Oh, so the whole time you thought I was saying this place ISN'T great? I do think this place is great. I've met many tight people here, many openminded people here, and I have good friends here. I'm just a bit of a cynic, to be honest. But that don't mean I blow off the good works that people are doing to further the progress this country, like I've said before. Here's an article that better describes my exact postition on America:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/national.htm
Again, this does not mean that I'm ignoring the great things that people have done in this country.

I have a question, why are school districts divided up into muncipals? I agree, the way the government does it is kinda contradicting. School is a government ran instituion, but schools don't get equal education programs, it don't make any sense. And what did you mean by "And regarding AA, I think if schools at the primary level were improved (equal for everyone) there would be no need for AA."?

[Jack Corsaut]

SamoanAfrican wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh, so the whole time you thought I was saying this place ISN'T great? I do think this place is great. I've met many tight people here, many openminded people here, and I have good friends here. I'm just a bit of a cynic, to be honest. But that don't mean I blow off the good works that people are doing to further the progress this country, like I've said before. Here's an article that better describes my exact postition on America:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/national.htm
Again, this does not mean that I'm ignoring the great things that people have done in this country.
I have a question, why are school districts divided up into muncipals? I agree, the way the government does it is kinda contradicting. School is a government ran instituion, but schools don't get equal education programs, it don't make any sense. And what did you mean by "And regarding AA, I think if schools at the primary level were improved (equal for everyone) there would be no need for AA."?

Here in CA, students under AA type programs are admitted into UC schools (why not Cal State - that's a good question no one seems to know the answer to), only to fail because of coming from a shoddy primary (K-12) school system. If people in all neighborhoods had a decent primary education then the world would be their oyster as it is for white folks in elite neighborhoods with their heavily financed schools. There would be no need for AA because students of all hues could do and be what they want.

That does not mean it is always easy. If you think whites are busy giving favors to other whites, you are wrong. They are just as cruel to their own as other races are to their own...

[SamoanAfrican]

Jack Corsaut wrote:

<quoted text>
Here in CA, students under AA type programs are admitted into UC schools (why not Cal State - that's a good question no one seems to know the answer to), only to fail because of coming from a shoddy primary (K-12) school system. If people in all neighborhoods had a decent primary education then the world would be their oyster as it is for white folks in elite neighborhoods with their heavily financed schools. There would be no need for AA because students of all hues could do and be what they want.
That does not mean it is always easy. If you think whites are busy giving favors to other whites, you are wrong. They are just as cruel to their own as other races are to their own...

Thanks, that anwsered my question. But I have another one, and I know this is kinda stupid, but I'm curious to know.
Say AA's did get better education and started to "move up" into higher class neigbourhoods with predominate white populations. Do you think that'll be the end of African American culture? You know how black people have a distinct way of speaking that's carried down from our ancestors, do you think that'll be gone if AA's started moving and getting educated in higher class neighbourhoods?

[Jack Corsaut]

SamoanAfrican wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks, that anwsered my question. But I have another one, and I know this is kinda stupid, but I'm curious to know.
Say AA's did get better education and started to "move up" into higher class neigbourhoods with predominate white populations. Do you think that'll be the end of African American culture? You know how black people have a distinct way of speaking that's carried down from our ancestors, do you think that'll be gone if AA's started moving and getting educated in higher class neighbourhoods?

It's already happened. Black patois is an integral part of American speech and logic patterns. Maybe that's why Hispanics hate us so much...

[SamoanAfrican]

Jack Corsaut wrote:

<quoted text>
It's already happened. Black patois is an integral part of American speech and logic patterns. Maybe that's why Hispanics hate us so much...

What do you mean? What are "patois"? And yeah, you're kinda right there, but why do Hispanics hate blacks? I don't get that.

[Jack Corsaut]

SamoanAfrican wrote:

<quoted text>
What do you mean? What are "patois"? And yeah, you're kinda right there, but why do Hispanics hate blacks? I don't get that.

Those are good questions and are of the type that will be illuminated in your own mind as you think of them.

Peace to you.

[PTBW Forever]

If the statics are right about the kids under 5 being under 50% white even though whites are 70% of the population then Affirmative Action would be a deliberate attack on the white population, so it would be part of a genocide if AA kept going.

[Lou Voren]

If you really want to see the product of the "Affirmative Action" mentality, take a look at Mayor Kilpatrick of Detroit.

This guy is so stupid, that even the lowered standards of affirmative action COULD NOT make this guy look intelligent.

The judge told him in "plain English" that he was prohibited from leaving the jurisdiction. After all that, he still ignored the judge's warnings. I suppose the next thing that will be used to defend this id that Mayor Kilpatrick should have had in interpreter appointed for him, so that the judge's instructions could have been translated from English to Ebonics!

[proudredneck]

Obama a Muslim… fact or fiction?

• A close boyhood friend of Obama, Zulfin Adi, said Barack "was a Muslim. He went to the mosque."

• Obama's first-grade teacher at a Catholic school, Israella Dharmawan, said: "Barry (Barack's nickname) was Muslim. He was registered as a Muslim because his father was Muslim."

• In the third grade, Obama transferred to a public school, where he was also registered as a Muslim. At the school, Muslim students attended weekly religion lessons about Islam.

Some of these details have been confirmed by Obama himself. In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," Obama mentions studying the Koran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."
Earlier this year, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs claimed: "Senator Obama has NEVER been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim.

But the FACTS suggest that statement is not exactly true.

Middle East Forum director Daniel Pipes wrote on FrontPageMag.com that his research led him to conclude that… "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian stepfather."

After the Los Angeles Times conducted its own investigation, Gibbs amended his previous statement on behalf of Obama, telling the Los Angeles Times: "Obama has never been a practicing Muslim”.

After the Los Angeles Times report, Obama’s hometown newspaper, the Chicago Tribune, came to his rescue, publishing its own story about Obama’s Indonesian years less than two weeks after the Times report.

Despite heated denials — perhaps fueled by Obamas attendance at’Nation of Islam’ leader Louis Farrakan’s Million Man March — doubts linger about Obama’s religious status.

For example, The New Yorker magazine’s recent controversial cover depicting Obama in traditional Muslim clothing — sandals, robe and turban – reflects those doubts.

While rebuffing reports of his ties to Islam, Obama has insisted there is “nothing wrong” with being a Muslim.

Obama a Muslim or not?sure looks like he very much could be. The old saying that says ‘if it waddles and quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck’ comes into plain view.

Having said all that, can America take a chance on a ‘Trojan Horse’ becoming the most powerful man in the world with such little experience and perhaps questionable loyalties to the U.S. Constitution ? Would the Koran and the Jihad replace the ‘Bills of Rights? Would such national holidays as Christmas be replaced with Ramadan? Serious consideration needs to be made before it’s too late.