Judge overturns California's ban on s...

Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage

There are 201880 comments on the www.cnn.com story from Aug 4, 2010, titled Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage. In it, www.cnn.com reports that:

A federal judge in California has knocked down the state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday that the state's controversial Proposition 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.cnn.com.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#193631 May 28, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
I still don't see how you can make the leap from 2 same-sex people being allowed to marry to the legalization of polygamy.
Simple. One nationwide definition of marriage, prior to 2004. Monogamous union of husband and wife. Applied to ALL Americans. Everyone could have one spouse of the opposite sex. Now the OS requirement has been dropped in a few states, and the polygamists have their own reality show. Plus they have publicly supported SSM.
You're trying to say that by changing any aspect to marriage means that all aspects to marriage must also be allowed to change.
To say that allowing same-gender couples to marry will lead to polygamy is like saying, "If we change the age at which people can begin to vote, then we'll have to allow non-residents to vote."
Just because one aspect of marriage (or voting) changes, does not mean that the doors fly open to every other possible change.
Think about it. Basic requirements. One must be of age, able to consent, not currently married, not a close blood relative of the other party, and is willing to accept someone one of the opposite sex as heir respective legal husband or wife. The OS requirement has been dropped, so what else is expendable? Age? No. Consent? No. That leaves number, and blood relation.
As I've said here repeatedly, if others want to have their shot at changing the laws of marriage to include them, then they have access to the same processes that are required to have that done.
If polygamists decide to pursue having their marriages recognized by the government, they're going to have a hell of a time using any arguments that have been presented by proponents of same-sex marriage. NO case that has been argued before a judge with regards to same-sex marriage have included an argument to increase the number of spouses a person can have.
You continue to dodge the question. If marriage is no longer defined as the monogamous union of husband and wife, why does it matter if monogamy is maintained? Why does it matter who marries who, or doesn't marry who?
If you were an attorney arguing on behalf of polygamy, which parts of the same-sex marriage trials would you draw from to support your case?
Ask the question: "If monogamous conjugal, husband and wife,marriage which is the foundation of a stable society in this country, is no longer the sole legal marital standard, and individuals are allowed to have the state sanction their consenting personal intimate sexual relationships as marriage, regardless of the number or nature of said relationship, why then, should polygamy be excluded?
Finally, if you want to be historically accurate, it was during the Love v. Virginia trial--the one legalizing interracial marriage--that the Attorney General for Virginia warned that "polygamy" would result, should interracial marriage be legalized.
If you want to blame anyone for the future of polygamy, blame those who argued in favor of interracial marriage.
Not quite sparky. Interracial marriage existed in various parts of the country, during various times, for example mid 19th century New York City, long before SSM was even conceived of. Besides, you're basing your claim on one elected official from that time period. Weak, Vee Vee.

Since: Jan 10

Lewis Center, OH

#193632 May 28, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Spot on old chap. Jolly good point.
When are you haters going to give up the poly argument? It’s doing absolutely nothing to stop the progression of Gay Marriage Rights. I’m chuckling as I write this. Truly funny part is that you think monogamous Non-Gay couples are somehow the elite standard. Word to the wise, you’re not special in any way.

Since: Jan 10

Lewis Center, OH

#193633 May 28, 2013
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing worse than a fat, 6'5", 250 lb queer. I feel sorry for the underage teen boys you troll for at your local mall.
Your hater is showing, that’s it get all childish when your slapped down, biotch. You’re nothing but a poser and a liar.

“Building Better Worlds”

Since: May 13

Europa

#193637 May 28, 2013
Marram wrote:
<quoted text>
When are you haters going to give up the poly argument? It’s doing absolutely nothing to stop the progression of Gay Marriage Rights. I’m chuckling as I write this. Truly funny part is that you think monogamous Non-Gay couples are somehow the elite standard. Word to the wise, you’re not special in any way.
In fact, "straight married couples" are THE MOST DIVORCED people in the U.S.! How is that a "Gold Standard" ?!

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#193638 May 28, 2013
Marram wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly where is your non-functional vagina, is it just behind your balls and poo poo comes out of it once a day?
You are kind of bitchy today. Feeling like a Queen?

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#193640 May 28, 2013
Marram wrote:
<quoted text>
When are you haters going to give up the poly argument? It’s doing absolutely nothing to stop the progression of Gay Marriage Rights. I’m chuckling as I write this. Truly funny part is that you think monogamous Non-Gay couples are somehow the elite standard. Word to the wise, you’re not special in any way.
Why are you rainbow flag wavers trying to distance yourselves from your poly brothers and sisters?

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#193643 May 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
The Minnesota law highlights further implications of marriage redefinition in the law. For example, the law states that terms such as “husband,”“wife,”“mother,” and “father” that denote spousal and familial relationships in Minnesota law are to apply equally to persons in an opposite-sex or same-sex relationship.
The law also states that “parentage presumptions based on civil marriage” will also apply, thus allowing for children to have two mothers or two fathers.
http://www.catholicismusa.com/minnesota -
legislature-approves-gay-marri age-eliminates-
legal-status-of-mother-as-biol ogical-term/
I love how you think that's a big deal.

And black people are no longer considered 3/5 of a person, either.

Poor you.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#193644 May 28, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you rainbow flag wavers trying to distance yourselves from your poly brothers and sisters?
That's all you've got left, huh?

Desperate is not your color.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#193648 May 28, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
That's all you've got left, huh?
Desperate is not your color.
You have not been here long enough, desperate actually is his color

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#193650 May 28, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple. One nationwide definition of marriage, prior to 2004. Monogamous union of husband and wife. Applied to ALL Americans. Everyone could have one spouse of the opposite sex. Now the OS requirement has been dropped in a few states, and the polygamists have their own reality show. Plus they have publicly supported SSM.
<quoted text>
Think about it. Basic requirements. One must be of age, able to consent, not currently married, not a close blood relative of the other party, and is willing to accept someone one of the opposite sex as heir respective legal husband or wife. The OS requirement has been dropped, so what else is expendable? Age? No. Consent? No. That leaves number, and blood relation.
<quoted text>
You continue to dodge the question. If marriage is no longer defined as the monogamous union of husband and wife, why does it matter if monogamy is maintained? Why does it matter who marries who, or doesn't marry who?
<quoted text>
Ask the question: "If monogamous conjugal, husband and wife,marriage which is the foundation of a stable society in this country, is no longer the sole legal marital standard, and individuals are allowed to have the state sanction their consenting personal intimate sexual relationships as marriage, regardless of the number or nature of said relationship, why then, should polygamy be excluded?
<quoted text>
Not quite sparky. Interracial marriage existed in various parts of the country, during various times, for example mid 19th century New York City, long before SSM was even conceived of. Besides, you're basing your claim on one elected official from that time period. Weak, Vee Vee.
You keep making the HUGE leap from same-sex marriage to polygamy.

You keep asking "Why should polygamy be excluded?" Do you want polygamy to be excluded? Are you in favor of polygamy? If you are in favor of polygamy, then be default, you must also be in favor of same-sex marriage.

Re: interracial marriage... In your post above you say that "Interracial marriage existed in various parts of the country, during various times..."

Yes it did. And now we have a situation where same-sex marriage exists in various parts of the country.

And the one politician that you refer to happens to be THE Attorney General who LOST the landmark case, Loving v. Virginia. He wasn't just some idiot. He fought against interracial marriage and lost before the Supreme Court.

And he argued, just as you are arguing now, that interracial marriage will decimate "traditional" marriage. He claimed that once the races are allowed to intermarry, then everything is up for grabs--polygamy, marriage to people who were intellectually unable to consent to marriage, etc.

If polygamy hasn't happened in the nearly 50 years that interracial marriage has been legal, then it's not going to happen now.

Your idiotic scare tactics, your illogical belief that one thing inherently leads to another, and your other rhetoric may convince a few people, but in the long run it won't make a difference.

The barrel is rolling in our favor. When will the scales firmly tip in our favor? Who knows? Illinois is on the verge of passing same-sex marriage. There have been several states that either voted or legislated laws that legalized same-sex marriage over the past few years. The President believes that DOMA is unconstitutional and wants the DOJ to stop enforcing it. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" has gone down in flames.

If I was a betting man, I'd say we'll see nationwide legalization of same-sex marriage within the decade.

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#193651 May 28, 2013
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, "straight married couples" are THE MOST DIVORCED people in the U.S.! How is that a "Gold Standard" ?!
Here's how "straight married couples" have kept marriage such a sanctimonious and "traditional" social institution...

They spend forty-billion dollars each year marrying one another, and then turn around and spend a little over thirty-three billion divorcing.

And they have the AUDACITY to try to tell us that WE'RE going to destroy marriage!

Ain't that a kick in the pants?

“Building Better Worlds”

Since: May 13

Europa

#193652 May 28, 2013
I'm openly gay, live in a place without marriage equality, and thus cannot get married.

I have 2 sisters who have each been married 3 times (to opposite gender people).

Since: Jan 10

Lewis Center, OH

#193655 May 28, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's how "straight married couples" have kept marriage such a sanctimonious and "traditional" social institution...
They spend forty-billion dollars each year marrying one another, and then turn around and spend a little over thirty-three billion divorcing.
And they have the AUDACITY to try to tell us that WE'RE going to destroy marriage!
Ain't that a kick in the pants?
Yeah, they have a knack for ignoring that fact when they’re acting all superior and condescending. And let’s not forget that we all secretly want to get them naked, as if. Shudder.

Since: Jan 10

Lewis Center, OH

#193656 May 28, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep making the HUGE leap from same-sex marriage to polygamy.
You keep asking "Why should polygamy be excluded?" Do you want polygamy to be excluded? Are you in favor of polygamy? If you are in favor of polygamy, then be default, you must also be in favor of same-sex marriage.
Re: interracial marriage... In your post above you say that "Interracial marriage existed in various parts of the country, during various times..."
Yes it did. And now we have a situation where same-sex marriage exists in various parts of the country.
And the one politician that you refer to happens to be THE Attorney General who LOST the landmark case, Loving v. Virginia. He wasn't just some idiot. He fought against interracial marriage and lost before the Supreme Court.
And he argued, just as you are arguing now, that interracial marriage will decimate "traditional" marriage. He claimed that once the races are allowed to intermarry, then everything is up for grabs--polygamy, marriage to people who were intellectually unable to consent to marriage, etc.
If polygamy hasn't happened in the nearly 50 years that interracial marriage has been legal, then it's not going to happen now.
Your idiotic scare tactics, your illogical belief that one thing inherently leads to another, and your other rhetoric may convince a few people, but in the long run it won't make a difference.
The barrel is rolling in our favor. When will the scales firmly tip in our favor? Who knows? Illinois is on the verge of passing same-sex marriage. There have been several states that either voted or legislated laws that legalized same-sex marriage over the past few years. The President believes that DOMA is unconstitutional and wants the DOJ to stop enforcing it. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" has gone down in flames.
If I was a betting man, I'd say we'll see nationwide legalization of same-sex marriage within the decade.
Well said and spot on. I’m so amazed, happy and proud of what we’ve accomplished in such a short period of time. I agree, the tide has turned and I think there will be legal Gay Marriage for all Gay Americans in less time than we think. Reasonable educated people are aware of the injustices perpetrated against Gay Americans and are rightfully supporting our fight for equal rights.
Fouled Out

San Dimas, CA

#193657 May 28, 2013
Douglas Tessitor of Glendora, California appears to be on his less than healthy bed?

Guess he will miss the city council meeting? but for how long? Maybe it's for ever?
Adam Mosh

Sunnyvale, CA

#193659 May 28, 2013
I have always thought this argument was stemming from a false dichotomy. Marriage licenses came about because of miscegenation laws - do any of you realize that?

When my grandmother got married, she went to a church and got married. There was no marriage license, there was no government intervention. She didn't get a tax advantage or a tax hit. The government had nothing to do with it.

I am trying to figure out why people think it's acceptable for the GOVERNMENT to even recognize marriage at all.

Sure there are obligations when you get married, and there are privileges as well such as a power of attorney if you spouse gets seriously ill, or visitations rights, etc.

It should just be contract law and marriage should be entirely based up to the individuals involved. It's none of the government's business who you are in a relationship with - it's just you, and the people you have a relationship with.

You shouldn't get a tax penalty, or a tax supplement for being married. You shouldn't get advantages or disadvantages for being married. Why should the government be involved at all in relationships at all?

But we have this dumb debate that's a carry over from a bunch of laws created by the Klu Klux Klan in segregated America.

Meanwhile, the country has a debt of 16.7 trillion dollars, raises less than 16% of that per year in tax revenue, is involved in one war directly, is agitating one in Syria, wants to go to war with Iran, is still occupying Iraq with a bunch of mercenaries, has signed the NDAA which eliminates 5th amendment rights, is phonetapping the entire country,

But this is the "BIG DEBATE" at the moment. The cause du jour.

Maybe we can start arguing about flag burning, and school prayer next? I mean, that's more important than fundamental constitutional rights and the solvency of the nation - isn't it??

“Building Better Worlds”

Since: May 13

Europa

#193660 May 28, 2013
Adam Mosh wrote:
I have always thought this argument was stemming from a false dichotomy. Marriage licenses came about because of miscegenation laws - do any of you realize that?
When my grandmother got married, she went to a church and got married. There was no marriage license, there was no government intervention. She didn't get a tax advantage or a tax hit. The government had nothing to do with it.
I am trying to figure out why people think it's acceptable for the GOVERNMENT to even recognize marriage at all.
Sure there are obligations when you get married, and there are privileges as well such as a power of attorney if you spouse gets seriously ill, or visitations rights, etc.
It should just be contract law and marriage should be entirely based up to the individuals involved. It's none of the government's business who you are in a relationship with - it's just you, and the people you have a relationship with.
You shouldn't get a tax penalty, or a tax supplement for being married. You shouldn't get advantages or disadvantages for being married. Why should the government be involved at all in relationships at all?
But we have this dumb debate that's a carry over from a bunch of laws created by the Klu Klux Klan in segregated America.
Meanwhile, the country has a debt of 16.7 trillion dollars, raises less than 16% of that per year in tax revenue, is involved in one war directly, is agitating one in Syria, wants to go to war with Iran, is still occupying Iraq with a bunch of mercenaries, has signed the NDAA which eliminates 5th amendment rights, is phonetapping the entire country,
But this is the "BIG DEBATE" at the moment. The cause du jour.
Maybe we can start arguing about flag burning, and school prayer next? I mean, that's more important than fundamental constitutional rights and the solvency of the nation - isn't it??
Good post !
Im your Huckleberry

Redding, CA

#193661 May 28, 2013
Adam Mosh wrote:
I have always thought this argument was stemming from a false dichotomy. Marriage licenses came about because of miscegenation laws - do any of you realize that?
When my grandmother got married, she went to a church and got married. There was no marriage license, there was no government intervention. She didn't get a tax advantage or a tax hit. The government had nothing to do with it.
I am trying to figure out why people think it's acceptable for the GOVERNMENT to even recognize marriage at all.
Sure there are obligations when you get married, and there are privileges as well such as a power of attorney if you spouse gets seriously ill, or visitations rights, etc.
It should just be contract law and marriage should be entirely based up to the individuals involved. You shouldn't get a tax penalty, or a tax supplement for being married. You shouldn't get advantages or disadvantages for being married. Why should the government be involved at all in relationships at all?
But we have this dumb debate that's a carry over from a bunch of laws created by the Klu Klux Klan in segregated America.
Meanwhile, the country has a debt of 16.7 trillion dollars, raises less than 16% of that per year in tax revenue, is involved in one war directly, is agitating one in Syria, wants to go to war with Iran, is still occupying Iraq with a bunch of mercenaries, has signed the NDAA which eliminates 5th amendment rights, is phonetapping the entire country,
But this is the "BIG DEBATE" at the moment. The cause du jour.
Maybe we can start arguing about flag burning, and school prayer next? I mean, that's more important than fundamental constitutional rights and the solvency of the nation - isn't it??
OK Adam, let's dance...

Would you happen to know what the earliest Historical source is that refers to Marriage?

When you say, "It's none of the government's business who you are in a relationship with - it's just you, and the people you have a relationship with."

Now think about that statement...some of the consequences?

Not sure you thought this one all the way through, huh?
Adam Mosh

Sunnyvale, CA

#193662 May 29, 2013
Im your Huckleberry wrote:
<quoted text>
OK Adam, let's dance...
Would you happen to know what the earliest Historical source is that refers to Marriage?
When you say, "It's none of the government's business who you are in a relationship with - it's just you, and the people you have a relationship with."
Now think about that statement...some of the consequences?
Not sure you thought this one all the way through, huh?
Marriage has been a cultural tradition for ages in all cultures. Monogamy, polygamy and polyandry (bet you have to look that one up!) have been common, and all of them still exist although not officially in this country.

Marriage hasn't always been something the government imposed on people. That's new. It certainly isn't a federal debate. The federal government has no right at all to even consider this issue one way or another. At BEST it's a state issue.

And what consequences? Statutory rape won't go away, if that's what you're thinking of. Marriage is just a word. Get married if you like. I don't care if you're married to 3 women and 4 men. I don't care. It's none of my business.

This should be limited to contract law. Why, for example, should somebody have to register a sexual relationship to get contract law for visitation rights, power of attorney, or whatever else the perceived benefits of marriage are? If you have children with your partner, why should obligations be different for each parent regardless?

But again:

I think this whole thing is just a stupid distraction. There's a lot more important things going on now. I'm tired of these trivial debates of stupidity that don't even deserve national attention when major issues that absolutely deserve national attention aren't even discussed.

I'm not interested in a debate about this. I simply don't care about it. I'm only expressing my frustration with this constant topic that gets a bunch of idiots into a war over when they have a fundamental responsibility to consider really urgent issues as our country hits a debt to income ratio it hasn't seen since 1932, is going to war all constantly and unnecessarily, while it dismantles the constitution.

Get your freaking priorities straight or you kids can live in a bankrupt, fascist failed nation.

Oh, but let's get back to gay marriage. It's so important that this big issue gets resolved by government, which shouldn't even be involved.
Im your Huckleberry

Redding, CA

#193663 May 29, 2013
Adam Mosh wrote:
<quoted text>
Marriage has been a cultural tradition for ages in all cultures. Monogamy, polygamy and polyandry (bet you have to look that one up!) have been common, and all of them still exist although not officially in this country.
Marriage hasn't always been something the government imposed on people. That's new. It certainly isn't a federal debate. The federal government has no right at all to even consider this issue one way or another. At BEST it's a state issue.
And what consequences? Statutory rape won't go away, if that's what you're thinking of. Marriage is just a word. Get married if you like. I don't care if you're married to 3 women and 4 men. I don't care. It's none of my business.
This should be limited to contract law. Why, for example, should somebody have to register a sexual relationship to get contract law for visitation rights, power of attorney, or whatever else the perceived benefits of marriage are? If you have children with your partner, why should obligations be different for each parent regardless?
But again:
I think this whole thing is just a stupid distraction. There's a lot more important things going on now. I'm tired of these trivial debates of stupidity that don't even deserve national attention when major issues that absolutely deserve national attention aren't even discussed.
I'm not interested in a debate about this. I simply don't care about it. I'm only expressing my frustration with this constant topic that gets a bunch of idiots into a war over when they have a fundamental responsibility to consider really urgent issues as our country hits a debt to income ratio it hasn't seen since 1932, is going to war all constantly and unnecessarily, while it dismantles the constitution.
Get your freaking priorities straight or you kids can live in a bankrupt, fascist failed nation.
Oh, but let's get back to gay marriage. It's so important that this big issue gets resolved by government, which shouldn't even be involved.
Well then I guess it would be pointless to explore the history of Marriage.

You are right of course about the attention this is given considering the other pressing issues we face as you mention.

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