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Since: Mar 09

United States

#21 May 8, 2013
He's in safe hands. In Christ's hands as he chose to be.
MeToo

Englewood, FL

#22 May 10, 2013
Real Truth wrote:
In 1933, after the Nazis first started arresting some German JWs, the Brooklyn, New York Headquarters of the WatchTower Cult issued a public
proclamation of appeasement which condemned an imagined "partnership" between "Jewish Big Business" and the governments of the United States
and Great Britain --- which supposedly oppressed and exploited other countries, including Germany. The WatchTower Cult's proclamation condemned the Americans and the British as "the most oppressive empire on earth".
A conciliatory letter also was sent to Adolph Hitler, which highlighted those areas in which the WatchTower Cult supported the new Nazi government. The letter even falsely claimed that the U.S. Government had imprisoned the leaders of the WatchTower Cult during WW1 because they had refused to print anti-German propaganda.
During the early years of World War 2, when Germany and Japan were having much success on the battlefields, the WatchTower Cult started
teaching that the Bible prophesied that the Axis Powers would defeat and rule over the United States, Britain, and other Allies.
In the United States, JWs went to the homes of families of American service men and women and told those parents, siblings, and spouses that Germany was prophesied to win the war, and that in fighting against Hitler, American and British soldiers were fighting against God's will. A Jehovah's Witness named Taylor was arrested after going to two homes of dead servicemen and telling their families that their sons had died while opposing God's will. Don't believe this? Read 1943 U.S. Supreme Court case TAYLOR v. MISSISSIPPI.
Remember that actual historical context the next time you read some liberal newspaper or book's account about how some poor innocent Jehovah's Witness was beaten during WW2 for doing nothing except preaching the Bible door-to-door.
While it is true that a small number of German and other European JWs suffered greatly during the early stages of the Holocaust, it is also true that during the latter stages of the Holocaust that imprisoned JWs became exemplary Nazi collaborators highly valued by the Nazis.
Over the decades, the WatchTower Cult itself has published numerous biographical stories in which imprisoned JWs are praised for having been given positions of authority and responsibility within the various Nazi concentration camps. Various Nazi officials are quoted praising those JWs for not only their work, but their work ethic and supportive attitudes.
In fact, one of Heinrich Himmler's deputies once even suggested to Himmler that after Germany won the war that conquered non-Germanic christian nations be forced to convert to the Jehovah's Witness religion, so as to maintain a controlling religious element in those people's lives which would pose no threat to Nazi political control.
Real Truth probably still believes in the trinity. Smells like Truth's toilet is backing up ;-)

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#23 May 11, 2013
Nomi wrote:
He's in safe hands. In Christ's hands as he chose to be.
Nomi, I have an honest question for you. If this man can be in Christ hands, why cant people like my Mother be in Christ hands, or lets say, me if I died? Why do you presume that no one can be in Christ hands but those who are called JW's? I am not attacking, I would really like to know why you believe this.

I hope you are doing well, and enjoying the warmer weather.
jace

Clinton, MD

#24 May 11, 2013
Real Truth wrote:
In the latter 1960s, the WatchTower Society commissioned an exact and comprehensive history of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany, which was to include exact and precise statistics for the Holocaust period, which were to be extracted from not only government archives, but, more importantly, from the WatchTower Cult's own METICULOUS RECORDS in Germany and other European countries. That report was published by the
WatchTower Cult in 1973.

Apparently, the WatchTower Cult was greatly disappointed in the Holocaust statistics uncovered by its own legal researchers, because that report has rarely been cited by the WatchTower Cult in its' own Holocaust related articles published subsequent to the 1973 report. Instead of using its own documented exact statistics, both the WatchTower Cult and individual Jehovah's Witnesses routinely cite inflated statistics from non-WatchTower sources whose numbers are inflated "guestimates", or are inflated numbers from unreliable and inaccurate records.

Accordingly to the WatchTower Cult's own 1973 report, only 6019 Jehovah's Witnesses were arrested in Germany during the entire 12 year Nazi period of 1933 through 1945. Only 2000 German JWs were ever sent to concentration camps. Only 203 were executed. Another 432 German JWs died from other causes while in custody in all German jails, prisons, and camps.
Exact numbers for other Nazi-occupied countries are unknown. Even Holocaust experts who inflate German JW statistics guestimate that only 600-800 non-German JWs from Nazi-occupied countries were ever sent to concentration camps. Mortality figures are not known.

Thus, only 2600-2800 Jehovah's Witnesses were ever sent to Nazi concentration camps. Death statistics are not known, but can be reasonably estimated to be in the 500-700 range. The grand total for 1933-1945 is about HALF the DAILY AVERAGE of Jewish deaths -- 1370 every single day for the 12 year Nazi period.

During this same 1933-1945 time period, there were TWICE as many Jehovah's Witnesses arrested and jailed in the United States as there were in Germany. In fact, just during 1941-45, approximately 4500 American Jehovah's Witnesses men "elected" to go to prison rather than serve in the U.S. Military and help stop Nazis atrocities against their fellow JWs. Approximately 3000 of those 4500 American JWs were even offered "conscientious objector" status, in which they were offered "non-combatant" work as a substitute for military service, but 99% of those 3000 American JWs refused to help out even that much.
Only to be told later they could have taken the alternative jobs

One if my mentors went to prison during Vietnam for this same foolishness when the wt reversed and blamed the men who went it was part of the reason I left

Wt jacks with folks lives to much all in the name if god
jace

Clinton, MD

#25 May 11, 2013
eagleeye2 wrote:
<quoted text>Since you are a Southern Baptist, you should be more concerned with your church's record during the Holocaust than with correcting and criticizing others. That looks hypocritical.

As El Cacique stated, the Jews did not have any options. They were persecuted because of what they were born as. Jehovah's Witnesses were of different nationalities and births and could have avoided persecution by renouncing their loyalty to Jehovah. The record shows that they stood firm.

Here is what history says about your religion:

"Outside Germany, the most conspicuous examples of silence among Baptist were from the Southern Baptist Convention of the United States.

In the Southern Baptist Convention, representing the largest group of American Baptists, the Convention itself offered no resolutions of protest concerning the treatment of the Jews in Germany from 1933 to 1941.

Whether or not this silence was due to ignorance or indifference one may debate. Certainly information on the plight of the Jews was not only available; it was reported in the 1940 edition of the Southern Baptist Handbook, published by the Southern Baptist Convention. Here the Convention reprinted information from the Watchman and Examiner, reporting the number of Jews in Germany and Austria who had committed suicide (30,000),how many were in prisons or concentration camps (30,000), how many emigrated (330,000), how many had been murdered (13,000)."

Read much more here:

http://www.floridabaptisthistory.org/docs/mon...
Excellent quote showing that the Southern Baptist Convention, representing the largest group of American Baptists, the Convention itself offered no resolutions of protest concerning the treatment of the Jews in Germany from 1933 to 1941.

Now do us all a favor just for the record

Could you show where the wt with its Millions of printed editions do what the baptist did not do??

That is to offer a resolutions of protest concerning the treatment of the Jews in Germany from 1933 to 1941???

Just provide the ref to the society's publication will be good enough

Thz
jace

Clinton, MD

#26 May 11, 2013
eagleeye2

"The churches in general did little to help the Jews "

"4Yet throughout this period there was virtually no public opposition to antisemitism or any readiness by church leaders to publicly oppose the regime on the issues of antisemitism and state-sanctioned violence against the Jews. "

&&&&&& &&&

You make a very good point above in regards to other denominations

But I do have a simple question

Can you point out where jw did what others failed to do As You Pointed out in your post

The reason I ask is because you have pointed out the failure accurately of others now would you point out where the wt own record doing what your others that you and I both agree on failed to do

Thanks

Just provide the ref. I have a wt CDROM and can look it up myself

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#27 May 11, 2013
jace wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent quote showing that the Southern Baptist Convention, representing the largest group of American Baptists, the Convention itself offered no resolutions of protest concerning the treatment of the Jews in Germany from 1933 to 1941.
Now do us all a favor just for the record
Could you show where the wt with its Millions of printed editions do what the baptist did not do??
That is to offer a resolutions of protest concerning the treatment of the Jews in Germany from 1933 to 1941???
Just provide the ref to the society's publication will be good enough
Thz
This was a research paper done by a student at a university...

BAPTISTS AND THE HOLOCAUST
By
E. Earl Joiner
Stetson University
A RESEARCH PAPER PRESENTED AT THE INTERNATIONAL
CONFERENCE ON “REMEMBERING FOR THE FUTURE,”
at
OXFORD, ENGLAND, JULY 10-14, 1988

Funny that shes willing to go find things like this to attack other religions, but is not willing to go read things that others show her to try and help her see how her own religion has done things in the past and now. I know the Baptist faith is not perfect, but the Baptist faith has nothing to do with my salvation.:)

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#28 May 11, 2013
I am leaving now for the day. I hope that everyone has a blessed day and remembers to do as Jesus told us to do, love one another. Yes, Jesus loves us all and wants us all to come to him before it is to late. We all see what is going on in the world and we can see how bad things are. Jesus told us the signs to watch for and if you are a Christians, we all can see them clearly. It may not happen for another 1000 years, but it may happen today. Don't allow yourself to be caught without your Savior Jesus Christ, no religion, no organization will save you, ONLY JESUS.

Since: Mar 09

United States

#29 May 11, 2013
I am doing fairly well, Karen. When I say "in Christ's hands
...I really mean everyone has a chance at being resurrected...the Bible says that Christ will resurrect the "righteous" and the unrighteous". People like this JW come back may be in the class referred to as "righteous". Others may come back in the other group. However, I am not referring to any individual, like your mother, in any way at all. Because in a manner of speaking...any who die are actually in "Christ's hands", as far as a possible resurrection is concerned. I just simply was referring to this one Brother as probably having that wonderful hope ahead, thru Christ, that's all.
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Nomi, I have an honest question for you. If this man can be in Christ hands, why cant people like my Mother be in Christ hands, or lets say, me if I died? Why do you presume that no one can be in Christ hands but those who are called JW's? I am not attacking, I would really like to know why you believe this.
I hope you are doing well, and enjoying the warmer weather.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#31 May 12, 2013
Nomi wrote:
I am doing fairly well, Karen. When I say "in Christ's hands
...I really mean everyone has a chance at being resurrected...the Bible says that Christ will resurrect the "righteous" and the unrighteous". People like this JW come back may be in the class referred to as "righteous". Others may come back in the other group. However, I am not referring to any individual, like your mother, in any way at all. Because in a manner of speaking...any who die are actually in "Christ's hands", as far as a possible resurrection is concerned. I just simply was referring to this one Brother as probably having that wonderful hope ahead, thru Christ, that's all.
<quoted text>
Thank you for explaining Nomi.:)

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#32 May 12, 2013
Nomi wrote:
I am doing fairly well, Karen. When I say "in Christ's hands
...I really mean everyone has a chance at being resurrected...the Bible says that Christ will resurrect the "righteous" and the unrighteous". People like this JW come back may be in the class referred to as "righteous". Others may come back in the other group. However, I am not referring to any individual, like your mother, in any way at all. Because in a manner of speaking...any who die are actually in "Christ's hands", as far as a possible resurrection is concerned. I just simply was referring to this one Brother as probably having that wonderful hope ahead, thru Christ, that's all.
<quoted text>
And I like your picture of your kitty cat. My husband has lost two of his cats in the past 2 months and he is heart broken. No matter how much I tell him not to get attached to the outside cats, he does anyway. He had one for 4 years and one for almost 7. He has two more left outside, and I told him to not allow himself to get to close to them, but he already is. We have one that has been part of our family for over 20 plus years, I do not know what he will do when she goes.
jace

Clinton, MD

#33 May 12, 2013
jace wrote:
<quoted text>Excellent quote showing that the Southern Baptist Convention, representing the largest group of American Baptists, the Convention itself offered no resolutions of protest concerning the treatment of the Jews in Germany from 1933 to 1941.

Now do us all a favor just for the record

Could you show where the wt with its Millions of printed editions do what the baptist did not do??

That is to offer a resolutions of protest concerning the treatment of the Jews in Germany from 1933 to 1941???

Just provide the ref to the society's publication will be good enough

Thz
Still waiting
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

#34 May 19, 2013
10:25 am, Sunday, May 19, 2013:
RE: 107-year-old Holocaust survivor, Jehovah's Witness is star of 'Ladder in the Lions' Den' documentary
"In the Nazi years, about 10,000 Witnesses, most of them of German nationality, were imprisoned in concentration camps. After 1939, small numbers of Witnesses from Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, the Netherlands, Norway, and Poland (some of them refugees from Germany) were arrested and deported to Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, Ravensbrück, Auschwitz, Mauthausen, and other concentration camps. An estimated 2,500 to 5,000 Witnesses died in the camps or prisons. More than 200 men were tried by the German War Court and executed for refusing military service."
..... And presumably God witnessed this and did NOTHING!

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