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#342 Apr 22, 2010
Did you personally open a case with IRS HON or did they open cuz you called them?
Come on Sunny, quit the hating. We all know you hate the church, don't attend any services anywhere, and just want to jump on the "hate the Chirstians (sic, your spelling) bandwagon.
Sam - The article did state that the church met with this group several times and made many efforts to sort things out. This was because the investors were long time members, friends, and leaders in the church. Unfortunate that someone they trusted cheated them. Doesn't mean (as Sunny would have it) that there is more to the story. This was a small group duped by their greed and a greedy man. period.
Sunny, praying for your hate to go away and God's Holy Spirit to soften your heart.
#343 Jun 13, 2010
The comments about whether or not Mr. Maffe is a Reprobate are a good demonstration of some of the weaknesses of Protestant thought and theology.
The comments also demonstrate a lack of compassion for notorious sinners that seems to be all too common among those who claim the name of Christian.
These kind of comments are also damaging to any children of Mike's who might be checking in on this thread.
It is extremely unhealthy for children of estranged or divorced parents to be told that one of their parents is completely evil. Call it the "Darth Vader" effect. Eventually a child of a deeply sinful parent will want to believe that there is some hope for that parent. Otherwise, such a child can grow to hate himself or herself thinking that he or she is "just like my dad" or "just like my mom." This can be the beginning of deep despair for such children.
Its dangerous, presumptuous and arrogant for any individual Christian to judge whether or not someone has become a "reprobate" or whether such a person has committed a sin against the Holy Spirit worthy of eternal damnation.
The monastic traditions of Christianity speak against judging others in this way. The appropriate attitude towards this fallen "christian" leader is sorrow and compassion, not gleeful condemnation. Everyone needs to be more humble and less indignant.
Sometimes Protestants are all too happy that someone in their individual estimation is on their way to Hell.
"Christians are the only army who shoots their wounded."
A true Christian should be horrified at the prospect that ANYONE will end up eternally separated from God.
God is far more patient then we are. It is up to Him to make a decision on whether or not someone has become unsalvageable.
As an Eastern Orthodox Christian who was once a Protestant myself, I have a perspective on this whole "reprobate" / apostasy issue.
If "pastor" Maffe from the perspective of Eastern Orthodox Christianity was at best only imperfectly joined or connected to the True Christian Church (if indeed he was really a part of the Christian Church at all) then he can't possibly be a "Reprobate" or an apostate yet, since he has yet to truly convert to Christianity.
Obviously there was a void in Mr. Maffe's life, or he would not have fallen so deeply into sin and self-destruction.
I pray he finds real answers and I pray that all involved in this train wreck will find healing and salvation. That's the true Christian sentiment to have here.
#344 Aug 5, 2010
lol! really, wait to judge.
Where is that in the Bible? lol! Wait. Wait until Zac Nazarian and Mike Maffe have seduced you into handing over more cash with their tricks!... Until they have turned their backs on more christians to save themselves? lol!
Zac Nazarian and Mike Maffe are a Father/Son team. Already Maffe has been invited back to the church to 'teach'.
Nazarian has some great tricks... like remembering names.. right out of Dale Carnegie... "how to win friends and influence people"...
The christians who made the mistake are those who trusted leaders like Nazarian and Maffe, and who allowed that trust to lead them into further commitments of resources
Pastor Zac and Pastor Mike share a common addiction aside from Porn. They both have not only names but tithes memorized! They know who's been giving and how much and both are well known in leadership as being 'business minded'... souls come second. Money comes first.
Thats how they could turn their back on 50 pastors ..or was it 52? lol!... who walked out of the church as a result of this incident. These accursed pastors failed 'the test of love'. Maffe's tears of repentance rolled off of them like water off a duck's back.
This "love" thing and 'diviseness' thing and 'forgiveness' thing has always surrounded Mike Maffe (a convert of Zac's from the waiter pool at Houston's in El Segundo).
Mike's been the rock on which the 'unforgiving','divisive', and 'void of christian love' have been broken !!!
Devoid of the Holy Spirit and discernment, Zac and Mike have ruled Hope Chapel like a couple of schoolyard bullies.
Good for the ..by the way... far superior in every way... christians who recognized these creeps for what they are: reprobates.
#345 Aug 5, 2010
The Bible 'speaks' about reprobates, yes. It says to turn them out of the church for destruction by the devil so that their souls may be saved.
Now thats love. And it protects people like you who are emotionally vulnerable and likely to follow an abusive leader.
You are an excellent candidate for the camp who claims that talk against Zac and Mike is 'divisive' and shows a dearth of 'christian love'.
Your arguments have nothing to do with the issue of the state of these men.
#346 Aug 5, 2010
50 people is a small group? Zac's closest friends? People Zac looked up to were included in this 'investment club'....
It may be counterproductive to trivialize the importance of the members who invested and who are justifiably seeking judgement. They tend to be rather important people both in and OUT of the church. They weren't dupes and fools. They were respected leaders, and pillars of the church. Hope Chapel is having quite a time of recovering... the church is all but destroyed.
So don't buy into Zac's propaganda and slander... they were just a few problematic members... or that they were 'unchristian'...
Zac values them on a GIVING level only. A small sacrifice to make to rid the church of an issue before it DOES cut into the overall income.
Yes, Zac really thinks like this. 50 souls are not important in the big picture.
My position is that Jesus disagrees...
#347 Aug 5, 2010
The church paid for Maffe's family every step of the way. He was married in the church. The woman he married was enchanted by Zac's coddling more than with the ugly bird, Maffe, himself. Now you want him to have welfare for life instead of earning an honest living?
He's been a worthless leech long enough.
You entirely miss the point, as always. You have completely turned the argument around. Money can be lost and remade. But in Zac and Mike's economy, that is ALL that is important! Money!
This isn't about money. Its about the reprobate behavior of Zac and Mike. The men and women who truly care about souls here are those bringing the suit.
Think of is as a way to rid the church of a corrupted pastor, ok? Thankyou.
#348 Aug 6, 2010
Zac's public penchant for pornographic pontification was starkly revelaed in his shameless promotion of Mike Maffe's sexual prowess. With a big smile he loudly proclaimed in front on one packed house of hundreds after another that ," Mike is so big that poor little (wife's name) could not hold the load …." of seed or children that Mike " put in her."… or something to that affect…
This pornographic promotion smacked more of ludus and eros, but objections were over-ruled. the congregation that did not 'take it' lacked 'Agape' love.
No wonder certain famous porn stars frequented the church, and may still. Perhaps there was a reason they sat eyeing Zac adoringly as he preached his pornographic messages...
Zac Nazarian's shameless and obnoxious insistence and promotion of Mike Maffe did not stop with pornography.
Mike Maffe blew his horn in seemingly every service, to herald announcements, in Church videos, and presentations.
Mike Maffe was placed in charge of of oversight of most 'ministries'. These include innovative and original services initiated by creative and dedicated members of the church… all placed under the authoritarian control of Zac's bewildered and incapable, unoriginal, dark, and tyrannical minion Mike Maffe.
He began teaching classes for new converts, filling in as a preacher in Zac's absence, and eventually sought as a teacher on such erudite topics as 'end of the world' theories, financial counseling, and the whole gamut of services offered by Hope Chapel. These included services to the poor, homeless, psychological counseling, and a host of other services for which an impoverished musician working as a waiter at Houston's would be other wise less qualified to oversee than even Dr. Phil !
But Zac built his son-in-the-faith into a leader. Or so he thought.
The trust for Maffe was built into the congregation on many levels. I have shown that it was at the pornographic, erotic, and lewd levels. he could do no wrong, and at his worst had to be accepted, at Zac's constant insistence, with Agape. He was trusted at the emotional level, at the level of scriptural confidence, as a musician playing in the song services, and as a teacher of all things prophetic.
He was trusted as the final authority in all oversight decisions.
Mike Maffe was strongly and wrongly promoted and trusted.
He was a paid… well paid… pastor with extensive responsibilities.
That he gave financial advice under the umbrella of church authority is therefore given.
That he deserved no trust whatsoever, and that he was not the first case of misplaced trust under Zac Nazarian's leadership is evident. The side issues of porn, excess, and tyranny are disturbing, but a part of the irresponsibility from the pulpit that is become a curse of the modern church.
May God have mercy on their souls.
But what most overlook is that leaders have a greater responsibility…. that it is the followers that Jesus is most concerned about…. Leaders take on a fearful responsibility, and everyone will lead someone eventually. Step down once in while, and let Jesus lead you.
#349 Aug 29, 2010
Sadly, Church Fraud is a very real concern, with potential risk from the outside as well as within. There are simple steps to increase the security of your churches finances but it is difficult to know where to start. I recently found out about a Christian Accounting firm that offers online tools and support for churches. They have some excellent resources as well as an online questionnaire that will determine whether your church is at risk. Their service is called Weeds in the Garden.
#350 Jan 4, 2011
I attending and was active in Ministry at Hope Chapel Hermosa for many years and found the church and it's pastors to be arrogant and judgemental. They want you accountable to THEM and only
THEM, not the Bible or God. Zac protected Mike when he should have been protecting his congregation. Bottom line, the church itself needs to be accountable and pay those people back. With Mike stealing from those people it was as if the church was stealing from them since they employed him. That is how it would be with any employer. Many, Many people have left this church. It is FAKE and the pastors are beyond arrogant. There are so many REAL churches out here who want to worship and obey God as the Bible tells us to and I don't think that HOpe Chapel is one of them. It's time for the head pastor to retire and someone else to take over. They also need to get rid of Dale Turner in Administration. He is almost as arrogant as Zac and together with Mike, they are as thick as thieves as far as protecting themselves. Please check this church out carefully before you join. Thousands of people and many, many pastors have left this church for the above reasons.
#351 Jan 4, 2011
It's obvious, no one wants to hear the truth.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Since: Jun 08
#352 Jan 5, 2011
Yes, the church needs to repay the people it swindled. Yes, it's good news that Many, Many people have left this church. The bad news is that many, too many, have remained.
#353 Jan 5, 2011
Does anyone know the outcome of the court hearings and the status of the lawsuit? Are they in arbitration? And, when is the next court hearing scheduled?
#354 Jan 6, 2011
#355 Jan 7, 2011
"Whatever," said one of the new Americans.
#356 Mar 25, 2011
YOU PEOPLE ARE NEEDING JESUS'S FORGIVENESS. IF ALL YOU HAVE TO DO ALL DAY IS BLOG AND JUDGE PASTOR ZAC NAZARIAN A MAN OF GOD-SHAME ON YOU! AS FOR MIKE MAFFEE-ALL I CAN SAY IS PRIDE COMES BEFORE THE FALL AND AFTER THAT THE JUDGEMENT-SO TOPIX.COM PLEASE CLOSE THIS BLOG-WASTE OF SPACE AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HELL BY THE MINUTE INCLUDING SOME OF THESE BLOGGERS!
#357 Mar 29, 2011
Zac and the entire staff, covered-up a known pedophile for YEARS by the name of Winton Baker. This includes Ralph Moore, Zac Nazarian, Guy Takashima, Chris Cannon, and even Randy Sanford!
It was discovered while Zac was only serving as a counselor, that Winton and Shirley Baker, were running a daycare center from their home in Manhattan Beach. Ralph was the first-person to be told and subsequently, Zac. Zac was to "manage" the situation as Ralph did not want to "get his hands dirty" with the matter for the Bakers, were personal friends of the McMartin family, also located in Manhattan Beach. REMEMBER THEIR NAMES? They were the largest sexual molestation case of the late 70's and early 80's.
Zac met with Winton and his wife, Shirley, ONLY ONE-TIME! Winton fully-confessed to molesting dozens of children, including his own daughter, Sheri. Shirley Baker knew of the entire matter but remained quiet for fear of losing her "Manhattan Beach home and lifestyle" if her husband were to ever be caught and prosecuted.
Zac said only ONE PRAYER with the Bakers and "declared him to be healed!" He NEVER contacted any of the victims, their families, NOR the M. Beach Police Department! NOR DID RALPH MOORE!
However, only ONE staff member refused to keep his mouth shut in order to "protect his position and very small paycheck", and for his integrity, was personally-fired by Zac in 1984, as the worship leader of the church. His job was then, secretly negotiated away with Bill Gross, as the new worship leader of the church. That same worship leader, also told the staff that Alan Kasaka was to become the next worship leader of the church, during one of the weekly staff meetings. Zac's IMMEDIATE and ANGRY response to this was that "NO **gger will EVER lead this church while I am the senior pastor!"
Years later, when Zac claimed that God gave him a "dream" that "Hope Chapel would grow to 5,000 in membership within 3 years of his leadership"! Upon doing so, he then hired a fund-raising group of ex-pastors and paid them $75,000 in up-front commissions for Zac's personal fundraiser known as "Called To Grow." When it began to fail, WINTON BAKER DONATED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN ORDER TO SAVE ZAC'S "IMAGE." IN EXCHANGE FOR BAKER'S DONATION, ZAC TURNED THE ENTIRE "OFF-SITE CAMPING MINSITRY" OVER TO WINTON BAKER, EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW HE REMAINED A DANGEROUS PEDOPHILE!
Chris Cannon, ALSO, DIRECTLY KNEW OF WINTON BAKER'S MOLESTATION! Chris asked Sheri Baker to "give her personal testimony" to the Hope Hermosa youth group, one night. After she finished, the room was in tears. Chris then, asked everyone in the room to bow their heads, close their eyes, and look-up at him if they too, had suffered sexual abuse and wanted prayer. OVER 1/2 OF THE ROOM OF GIRLS LOOKED-UP! Chris simply prayed and then declared, "You have been healed in the name of Jesus!" AND THAT WAS IT!
Zac ALSO agree to pay Ralph Moore his FULL-SALARY when Moore moved to Hawaii to plant his next church, even though it was a DIRECT VIOLATION of church policy to financially-support a new church-plant after 6 months of operation!
Zac also despises ANY WOMAN in any level of "senior" authority, especially if involving men!
It's sad that the ONLY staff member who would stand-up to the situation with Baker, and Zac's "Called-To-Grow" financial scam, was FIRED for his commitment to integrity as Hope Chapel's greatest worship leader and concert director! Zac attempted to even go as far as trying to destroy his name, as well as his calling in ministry, just for not "agreeing to be quiet" and "save his position and paycheck!" Even though it was very, very small!
The rest of the staff, knew of the ENTIRE MATTER, but sold themselves out, as well as their honor and integrity, just so that they could keep their positions in leadership and their personal payroll in tack!
SAD REPRESENTATION OF "PASTORS"! Or should we just call them what they are......GREEDY, SELF-SERVING PHARISEES, AS BEST?! YOU DECIDE!
#358 Mar 29, 2011
And the "Breeze" never heard of that?
#359 May 22, 2011
What happened to the lawsuit?
#360 Jun 6, 2011
Same Same here in Hawaii with Ralp Moore.
#361 Jun 6, 2011
Ralph is not wanting to get his hands dirty here in Hawaii. Good people are leaving, no accountability of the pastors.
Would like more information what happen.
Or any information on his son Carl and wife.
Can seen me emails to jim.james55 hotmail
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