Commercial air service ignorance

Commercial air service ignorance

Posted in the Betsy Layne Forum

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Frequent traveler

Ransom, KY

#1 Jul 13, 2012
I have seen goof ball endeavors coming from bored Pike officials, but a commercial airline is the absolute silliest.

A very fast talking "consultant" hired by Pikeville and it's totally unqualified puppet airport board has laughingly used a Kansas airport as a model.

Their slick "consultant" recently failed to pull that wool over the eyes of our more astute Fiscal Court members.

Anyone interested in the truth can read about what occured in Somerset, Ky. when "leaders" made the very same expensive mistake of wasting taxpayer money.

The last 'airliner' at Somerset failed miserably while wrecking twice trying to leave the broke city and county.

Our naive politicians are closing their eyes to what transpired at Somerset and many, many others that wish they had never heard of such madness..

Read why it fails everywhere else:

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/02/19/1146202/so...
from parts unknown

Macon, GA

#2 Jul 13, 2012
I agree with you for the most part, most of the cost is on the federal level,I think this is a grant that if money is not spent here it will just go to some small town some where else. WE have a nice airport that maybe this grant will help bring more gov. funds that will help pay for up grades that will help bring in a UPS, FEDERAL EXPRESS.i think hal rogers is helping to try an get the grant , yes it did not take off in hals home town. BUT there is all ways a local match to get these type of grants.
DaTruthHurts

Ransom, KY

#3 Jul 13, 2012
my question is is do you have a car that runs off Natural Gas?
from parts unknown

Macon, GA

#4 Jul 13, 2012
I agree both projects are border line. BUT if we spend one more nickel to help eqt with coal sev. tax money we are just helping the people who took us to school about all the jobs that they where going to bring to the area. my guess this is just a way to help eqt to get pike co to foot the bill to put in the fueling sta.for there fleet . NO MORE cash for EQT
Ashamed of Pike

Pikeville, KY

#5 Jul 13, 2012
from parts unknown wrote:
I agree both projects are border line. BUT if we spend one more nickel to help eqt with coal sev. tax money we are just helping the people who took us to school about all the jobs that they where going to bring to the area. my guess this is just a way to help eqt to get pike co to foot the bill to put in the fueling sta.for there fleet . NO MORE cash for EQT
You, my friend, are refreshingly astute. Most voters are not aware of what you address and certain politicians work diligently to keep it that way.

Let's also consider the millions that have been awarded to UMG. Our elected State Representative, Keith Hall, was caught cheating honest companies out of a right to bid, while 'fixing' no-bid contracts for his personally owned companies. He used his office to direct money to his own pockets. The crook is STILL in his cushy office because his friend, Stumbo, refused to even entertain any kind of punishment for his failure as a public official.

Let's also consider the extent that our elected State Senator, Ray S. Jones, went to in order to deny his own constituency access to UMG records that possibly link him to corruption widely accepted as involving his extended family and lucrative contracts with UMG.
cant tell

Pikeville, KY

#6 Jul 14, 2012
people of eastern ky, coal as we know it is about over for us.if we dont move ahead we other options of work, businesses way of supporting families other than government support(ssi,food stamps, welfare etc.) then we are going to go backwards in time. dont you want your childern or your grandchildern to have better or to be pround of who they are or where thier from. lets not be the people of eastern ky that people portray us to be. lets show people who we are and how we can prosper here in eastern ky. and as for the officials not wanting to get on board with new ideals and views, we as people need to make adjustments when the time comes. they are people out there that is qualified and is willing to move eastern ky and pike co. forward, and work with and for the people instead against them. start preparing today for change.
What

Hemingway, SC

#7 Jul 14, 2012
cant tell wrote:
people of eastern ky, coal as we know it is about over for us.if we dont move ahead we other options of work, businesses way of supporting families other than government support(ssi,food stamps, welfare etc.) then we are going to go backwards in time. dont you want your childern or your grandchildern to have better or to be pround of who they are or where thier from. lets not be the people of eastern ky that people portray us to be. lets show people who we are and how we can prosper here in eastern ky. and as for the officials not wanting to get on board with new ideals and views, we as people need to make adjustments when the time comes. they are people out there that is qualified and is willing to move eastern ky and pike co. forward, and work with and for the people instead against them. start preparing today for change.
You need a Spell check and a Dictionary.

Do not vote for the lame brains that want to waste Money on stupid ideas.
observer

Red Jacket, WV

#8 Jul 14, 2012
http://www.kentucky.com/2010/02/19/1146202/so ...

Little frankie Justice started this mess by appointing all embarressingly unqualified members to the airport board. He, and his cronies, had this in mind all along.

The previous,(replaced)highly qualified board tirelessly researched the commercial issue and found it to be a worthless, wasteful failure where it had been instituted. We now see proof that SOMEONE will go to great lengths to get a lot of money spent by the taxpayer on a known failure. Exactly like solyndra.

Now the Little mayor and his airport board are asking the Fiscal Court for another million dollars to throw at a scheme that becomes more suspicious every time one opens his mouth.

After all the sleazy secrecy involving UMG and political corruption, one would think there would be a rush to transparency. They must think we forgot.

Now, while the city and air board want a fortune from the County, they arrogantly refuse to tell the County who they will pay it to. Sounds just like UMG and involves some of the very same suspicious political hacks.

I am convinced, since all the dark secrecy, that one or more of our political hacks stands to make far more money over those two years than anyone has pocketed from UMG.

Think about it. Three entities are involved,( City, County, and airport) but only the County is asked to give money. The City and frankie's airboard are not paying, but are the only ones privy to who the money is going to. Bizarre BS from little frankie.

Scores of millions will change hands during the two years we pay the commercial service and others. Then, the money will all be gone and in someone's pocket, and the airplane will limp out of PBX just like it did in Somerset and most EVERY other community that has made such a huge and costly mistake.

I bet some politician in Somerset is rich and laughing now.

observer

Red Jacket, WV

#9 Jul 14, 2012
The link above doesn't seem to work, but the one in post #1 will give anyone a lot of the truth about this crazy scheme.

Just please read about what happened when Somerset made the same mistake.

There are other articles to be posted that give an accurate account, unlike the garbage we are being fed by Pikeville and frankie's mouthpiece.

Mr Blackburn is so desperate, he even used a scare tactic, telling us the cookie factory will close if we don't give him what he wants.

Such desperation indicates a suspiciously secret involvement.
What

Hemingway, SC

#10 Jul 15, 2012
observer wrote:
The link above doesn't seem to work, but the one in post #1 will give anyone a lot of the truth about this crazy scheme.
Just please read about what happened when Somerset made the same mistake.
There are other articles to be posted that give an accurate account, unlike the garbage we are being fed by Pikeville and frankie's mouthpiece.
Mr Blackburn is so desperate, he even used a scare tactic, telling us the cookie factory will close if we don't give him what he wants.
Such desperation indicates a suspiciously secret involvement.
Exactly!
Why would the Cookie Factory suddenly need Commercial Air Service?
It is pure BS.
rain makes me frisky

Elkhorn City, KY

#11 Jul 15, 2012
i know someone who sits on this board, and has come up with and helped to push forth many of the ideas for our coal severance money, i use the word ours....
as they do, which none of these people in suits and ties have ever once stepped foot into a coal mine.
havent worked hard to bring about this coal severence money, and yet, they love to sit around in air conditioned rooms discussing ways to spend, our money.
an airport?
really?
for what reason, other than to allow them to fly our to vacation destinations, and conferences, such as, the big coal operators association conference and convention, held in LEXINGTON KY......
ok, so there sits the expo, why cant they have the coal op ass conference there?
oh i know, not enough local businesses to support it, such as catering, bars, hotels, etc.
so, dont piss on my leg and tell me its raining!!!
they do not want to build this airport to bring about positive change to east ky.
they want to make it easier for their children who are away at college to fly home...and make it easier for themselves to travel on vacation, without all that pesky driving, we regular folks do.
observer

Red Jacket, WV

#12 Jul 15, 2012
I just finished watching Senator Ray S Jones on Pike TV.

He said Pike County is the only airport with an instrument landing system (ILS) East of Lexington. I hope, for the sake of Mr. Jones' passengers, that is an outright bold faced obvious lie. Mr. Jones is a licensed pilot and is mighty UN-educated if he REALLY doesn't know LONDON, KY. also has an ILS! It's a huge deal in aviation!

...Brand new students are made aware of safety features at other airports, so is Senator Ray S. Jones Jr. a woefully inept and unsafe pilot, or is he desperately attempting to mislead those non-pilots who listen to him?

He also stated that he doesn't put his nose in the airport. That's another one to laugh at if it wasn't such a sad affair.. His law partner has been very suspiciously and politically installed as the unqualified NON-PILOT CHAIRMAN of OUR airport board.

He, chairman Bill Hickman, was then mysteriously convinced to spend nearly a million dollars on new hangars that still haven't been filled with airplanes they said were waiting on the ramp.

These brand new hangars DID, though, conveniently allow the Senator and his partner, chairman Bill Hickman, to have clean and spiffy adjoining 'berths'/hangars.

There was another nearly million dollars spent on a phantom 'dip' in the runway after Ray Jones' daddy said a 'dip' caused him to damage the CHAIRMAN'S little airplane!

He stated that he doesn't Put his nose in the Fiscal Court. Another HILARIOUS falsehood coming from an elected official!. Just recently he addressed the court and told them that since the Magistrates didn't defend him against one or two who had shown shock at his legislative failures, that "HE" would find it hard to make the state budget change back to financially assist the County they represent.

That was a blatant threat to deny us voters of Pike County much needed funds that he had instead allegedly spitefully requested for the City to receive and to spend as THEY wish.

Another childish 'scare tactic' was used again. It was threatened, again, that Kellogg's would relocate if the Fiscal Court refuses to do what the City leaders and Ray Jones tell them to do. Kellogg's had made NO SUCH STATEMENT!

Such misleading rhetoric and obvious falsehoods from these people is damning in my opinion.

It indicates a very suspicious desperation from some with already questionable character in the wake of the UMG scandal and subsequent passage of HB 496...... That bill now 'conveniently' prevents us, the voting public, from knowing anything else ever about who UMG pays, and has paid..

I now (this time around)want to know just who is going to pocket a lot of money during the two years we, the taxpayers, fund a sure-to-fail,'fly-by-night' cock-a-maimie political stunt.

I smell something mighty fishy!!
Sad in pike county

Pikeville, KY

#13 Jul 15, 2012
How can the same people who have been so hateful to us about UMG come and say they are going to do the same thing again? Where is the law? Anyone can see that laws have been broke. We voted for Ray Jones and he did us this way. When can we trust a politician. Frank Justice hit a man with his fist over UMG and Chris Harris and wasnt put in jail. They think they are smarter than we are. They say they are. I guess they must be. they are still doing it.
Mel

Pineville, KY

#14 Jul 15, 2012
Frequent traveler wrote:
I have seen goof ball endeavors coming from bored Pike officials, but a commercial airline is the absolute silliest.
A very fast talking "consultant" hired by Pikeville and it's totally unqualified puppet airport board has laughingly used a Kansas airport as a model.
Their slick "consultant" recently failed to pull that wool over the eyes of our more astute Fiscal Court members.
Anyone interested in the truth can read about what occured in Somerset, Ky. when "leaders" made the very same expensive mistake of wasting taxpayer money.
The last 'airliner' at Somerset failed miserably while wrecking twice trying to leave the broke city and county.
Our naive politicians are closing their eyes to what transpired at Somerset and many, many others that wish they had never heard of such madness..
Read why it fails everywhere else:
http://www.kentucky.com/2010/02/19/1146202/so...
I think it could work depending on how it was done and which airline. There is certainly enough people in the area to support flights three days a week. I know I fly several times a year on average and I would love to be able to fly from Pikeville. As of now, I drive to Lexington, Louisville or Huntington. And think of all the business people coming here. The problem is that when you mention commercial air service people think of big airports like Lousiville or Cincinnati, but smaller airports have connection flights that are very popular. We're not talking about 747's here, just small connector flights. It would connect to larger cities more likely Atanta or Detroit. Perhaps Tampa and Orlando. Look at Huntington, Wv. It is a small airport, but it earns its keep. It isn't much bigger than Pikeville's airport. Sure, Huntington is bigger than Pikeville, but look at the whole area. All of eastern Kentucky would beneifit from it. It would not be hundreds of flights a day like big cities, a few flights a week would be enough to support itself. Go up to Pikeville airport. It stays pretty busy. A majority of the flights are business people. So, from what I've seen, there is a need here.

I understand people being worried about it. Yes it can be political. It could fail. But that is the problem with this area. We are never going to attract big businesses here until we have something to draw them here. Period. The more we have, the more people will come. Having a commercial airline in Pikeville is very possible.
Citizeng

Ransom, KY

#15 Jul 16, 2012
Not to get off topic but do you support Windmill Wayne Rutherford using 1.5 million in coal severance tax for CNG station when the nearest one is in Fort Knox for private use?
I Can Think For Myself

Macon, GA

#16 Jul 16, 2012
Mel wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it could work depending on how it was done and which airline. There is certainly enough people in the area to support flights three days a week. I know I fly several times a year on average and I would love to be able to fly from Pikeville. As of now, I drive to Lexington, Louisville or Huntington. And think of all the business people coming here. The problem is that when you mention commercial air service people think of big airports like Lousiville or Cincinnati, but smaller airports have connection flights that are very popular. We're not talking about 747's here, just small connector flights. It would connect to larger cities more likely Atanta or Detroit. Perhaps Tampa and Orlando. Look at Huntington, Wv. It is a small airport, but it earns its keep. It isn't much bigger than Pikeville's airport. Sure, Huntington is bigger than Pikeville, but look at the whole area. All of eastern Kentucky would beneifit from it. It would not be hundreds of flights a day like big cities, a few flights a week would be enough to support itself. Go up to Pikeville airport. It stays pretty busy. A majority of the flights are business people. So, from what I've seen, there is a need here.
I understand people being worried about it. Yes it can be political. It could fail. But that is the problem with this area. We are never going to attract big businesses here until we have something to draw them here. Period. The more we have, the more people will come. Having a commercial airline in Pikeville is very possible.
Who can afford the 500-600 dollar fee to get from Pikeville to ?????. And keep in mind while we are paying the bill for every seat on that plane the first two years will be the cheapest ticket available..

Why do you thng the common folk drive from Cincinnati, Lexington to Louisville for airservice? The savings warrents it. And in most cases this little Pikeville flight will cost you more than your main flight. The flight from your Pikeville connection point to your final destination.

No one, I repeat no one in this area would love to have a true competetive airservice than me. I am a pilot, I fly commercially over 12 times a year and you bet I known there is a difference in departure airpots and the cost involved. Many times Louisville will save me enough money to drive there. I have at times used Knoxville because of the savings. And my small company is spending my money, unlike govement, so I have to watch the bottom line.

How long do you think an air carrier will stay after we the people quit paying for all the empty seats. Just call the nice folks over in Somerset to get an answer to that.

People don't buy the politicians B.S. Talk to a pilot and those that fly commercially frequently and you will find out that it just won't work. Unless you're a politician, doctor, lawyer or extremely wealthy.
I Am Pilot Also

Macon, GA

#17 Jul 16, 2012
The public should ask how many of the pilots at PBX fly themselves on trips of more than 500 miles. Not very many and probably zero if you limit that question to the single engine aircraft owners.

Why???? Because it is cheaper to fly commercial from Charleston to Orlando for example. Just imagine you wanted to fly to Las Vegas. Then use Charlotte as one of the possible destinations of TAXPAYER AIRLINES out of Pikeville. The ticket for TPA out of Pikeville may be double what your ticket from U.S Airways is to Las Vegas. And rest assured when all of the gaurenteed tax dollars dry up then the TPA out of Pikeville will close up shop and fly away. Isn't that right Somerset.

One more time. Lexington, Cincinnati, Louisville and Dayton all fly to Atlanta everyday. The general public from all areas flock to Louisville for many flights. Why? because Joe and Jane Q. Public can't afford to pay the premium prices charged out of their local airports. Now the other airports do have some flights to Atlanta. Be you can be sure that most are used by the wealthy that doesn't need to save 250 dollars on their trip. And that is exactly what TPA will be for Pikeville.

I say let them do it, as long as it isn't funded by my hard earned tax dollars.
Mel

Pineville, KY

#18 Jul 16, 2012
I Am Pilot Also wrote:
The public should ask how many of the pilots at PBX fly themselves on trips of more than 500 miles. Not very many and probably zero if you limit that question to the single engine aircraft owners.
Why???? Because it is cheaper to fly commercial from Charleston to Orlando for example. Just imagine you wanted to fly to Las Vegas. Then use Charlotte as one of the possible destinations of TAXPAYER AIRLINES out of Pikeville. The ticket for TPA out of Pikeville may be double what your ticket from U.S Airways is to Las Vegas. And rest assured when all of the gaurenteed tax dollars dry up then the TPA out of Pikeville will close up shop and fly away. Isn't that right Somerset.
One more time. Lexington, Cincinnati, Louisville and Dayton all fly to Atlanta everyday. The general public from all areas flock to Louisville for many flights. Why? because Joe and Jane Q. Public can't afford to pay the premium prices charged out of their local airports. Now the other airports do have some flights to Atlanta. Be you can be sure that most are used by the wealthy that doesn't need to save 250 dollars on their trip. And that is exactly what TPA will be for Pikeville.
I say let them do it, as long as it isn't funded by my hard earned tax dollars.
As a pilot you must know that flights from any airports are based on amount of people and fuel to get the plane and load of people to destination. It's based on math. Of course it depends on the airline and the airport. Larger airports charge larger fees for airlines. That is why Alligent Air avoids the bigger airports and uses smaller airports such as Huntington and Charleston. This is what keeps costs down. I know last year my family flew from Huntington to Sandford, Florida for only $100 per person both ways. And that included renting a SUV for 5 days. That price is figured by Alligent for fuel costs and average amount of people flying to the destination. This could work in Pikeville. The price would be the same assuming that there is enough people flying from Pikeville to Sanford. The price would be roughly the same. It all depends on if there is enough people here that would fly. Yeah, you always hear how poor people are here and that they could not afford it. But, there are enought people here, middle class and up, that could support commercial airline service.
By the way, the tax dollars will be used only to upgrade Pikeville Airport. The airline would support itself. If not, then it will fold. I would rather my tax dollars go for something that will attract business to our area than to go somewhere else.
Yes politicians can ruin this. For example, every body says what a failure the Expo is. But it isn't such a failure. Everytime I go to an event, a concert or whatever, it almost always has a good crowd. Whenever there is an event there, the resturants and businesses are crowded. This is good for the local economy. The problem with the Expo is that it was mis-managed. Not that they can't get acts to come to it. The businesses are making more money from the Expo whether or not the Expo is making a profit. I don't mind that my tax dollars go for something that helps the local economy. I feel the same for the Airport.

And there is alot more flights coming in and going out of Pikeville than just small 500 mile trips. We're not talking about 20 flights a day here. Just a few going out every week. But that is enough to support an airline serving connector flights.
Yes, in some cases it could be more expensive to fly from Pikeville to another destination via a connecting airport. But this is true for any airport--not just because of Pikeville. But if the flights were non stop which is the case with alot of smaller connector jets, then it can be just as cheap or cheaper than other airports. Sure, it all depends all the factors combined. But let's not knock the monkey out of tree until we see what this monkey is going to do first.
WV pilot

Branchland, WV

#19 Jul 16, 2012
There is no way PBX and the area can sustain a commercial link. Much more populated areas have tried and failed. HUNTINGTON, WITH ITS CONTROL TOWER, RESTAURANTS, LOUNGES, ETC. CANNOT KEEP CONNECTOR FLIGHTS BUSY ENOUGH TO REMAIN IN SERVICE FOR ANY EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.
..The definition of insanity is Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome. It's madness to waste taxpayer's money on such a foolhearty political trick.
..The company trying hard to service Somerset changed flight destinations a multitude of times in an effort to attract more paying customers. It not only failed...It failed miserably. Ask Somerset if they think Pike County should fall for the carnival barkers who are telling lies in an attempt to fool the public.
..I agree...it seems more than obvious that SOMEONE in power over there intends to fill his pockets with money that they are telling the public will be well spent. Reference the corruption and cover up involving UMG. THAT issue will never be settled and is an example of politicians doing what they can and will do to their voters after being elected. It's all about greed and you know it! Who is covering for UMG and its money makers? Who is backing this commercial air service foolishness? Just add 2 and 2.
..Those of you who believe the BS coming from politicians are what is wrong with this Appalachian region and the reason for our stigma of ignorance.
Homer Stokes

United States

#20 Jul 17, 2012
WV pilot wrote:
There is no way PBX and the area can sustain a commercial link. Much more populated areas have tried and failed. HUNTINGTON, WITH ITS CONTROL TOWER, RESTAURANTS, LOUNGES, ETC. CANNOT KEEP CONNECTOR FLIGHTS BUSY ENOUGH TO REMAIN IN SERVICE FOR ANY EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.
..The definition of insanity is Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome. It's madness to waste taxpayer's money on such a foolhearty political trick.
..The company trying hard to service Somerset changed flight destinations a multitude of times in an effort to attract more paying customers. It not only failed...It failed miserably. Ask Somerset if they think Pike County should fall for the carnival barkers who are telling lies in an attempt to fool the public.
..I agree...it seems more than obvious that SOMEONE in power over there intends to fill his pockets with money that they are telling the public will be well spent. Reference the corruption and cover up involving UMG. THAT issue will never be settled and is an example of politicians doing what they can and will do to their voters after being elected. It's all about greed and you know it! Who is covering for UMG and its money makers? Who is backing this commercial air service foolishness? Just add 2 and 2.
..Those of you who believe the BS coming from politicians are what is wrong with this Appalachian region and the reason for our stigma of ignorance.
I have to agree with you. They can dress it up any way they like, but a pig in a dress, is still just a pig. Anyone with any common sense whatsoever knows if it didn't work in somerset it doesn't stand a chance here. One person hollering they fly once or twice a year is ridiculous. It's gonna take more then one or two flying. I hold the same suspicion you are right about it being an avenue for someone to pocket a load of taxpayer cash.

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