bci and coroner agree

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Poor Deputies Going Down

Wilmington, OH

#1 Jul 26, 2014
Article in The News Democrat says it all: 95% chance of going to GJ. That means it is not suicide in the eyes of the SP, or else he'd just go for a change in the death cert. What this means is that the SP, in light of the Coroner's input, received about four months ago, realizes that the inmate could not have hanged himself as claimed by the SO.

The SP is going to GJ with what the BCI and Coroner investigations produced. This way it will be the "public" (GJ) legitimizing what the Coroner claimed, homicide by strangulation, after all the media coverage blaming the Coroner for what the Chief Deputy labeled as part of her "political agenda." With a GJ agreeing with the Coroner's findings, that will provide the SP complete political separation from the Coroner and the absolute "authority" to go after all those involved in the cover-up, including the Chief Deputy and Prosecutor, tampering with the sprinkler head and surveillance video, knowingly allowing their destruction to the point where no one would be able to prove anything from both crucial evidentiary items in any court one way or another.

So, what is "complex" for Mr. Breyer, being handed a "bag of worms" investigation-wise by the initial BCI team, will be transformed by the GJ into a case where Mr. Breyer will be able to do "his thing." That is, he will go after everyone this time with a better result than his performance on the Marcus Fiesel case, where Amy Baker successfully wiggled her way out of Mr. Breyer's net. This case will put Mr. Breyer on the national map of news items for some time to come.

The Chief Deputy's son will go down, and with him the Chief Deputy too for tampering with evidence twice during two on-going investigations. There will be numerous individuals taking the fall sooner rather than later.

The problem those directly responsible are facing is that Sheriff Wenninger is retiring at the end of this year. He will be replaced with a new sheriff appointed by the Republicans. Every deputy sticking to the official story line of that October 5th, 2013, morning, for whatever reason (threats, etc.) will do time, or at the very least lose their peace officer certificates. The cover-up has gone too long for anyone in the know to come forward now with any excuse for not coming forward earlier with the truth. Whoever knows the truth will be "thrown under the bus" by both the Sheriff and Chief Deputy in their effort to save their own hide.

Look for MAJOR changes in the SO within the next five months. Deputies who chose to "toe the line" under Wenninger and Schadle are going to be wishing they had more integrity and courage to do what was right a long time ago rather than follow two idiots that could care less about their personnel. Both idiots have already squandered the "rank and file" reputation-wise professionally, which will really "hurt" if both are allowed to walk away unscathed, while the rest of the office personnel get the pink slip, with no other police organization in SW Ohio wanting to hire them even as a janitor in their facility.

Any deputy wanting to save what is left of his career had better be going to those officials in charge with accurate information so the shoes of illegal conduct are placed on the correct feet. All of this is pretty simple to figure out with only a few minutes of conscious thinking.
car007

Florence, KY

#2 Jul 27, 2014
Poor Deputies Going Down wrote:
Article in The News Democrat says it all: 95% chance of going to GJ. That means it is not suicide in the eyes of the SP, or else he'd just go for a change in the death cert. What this means is that the SP, in light of the Coroner's input, received about four months ago, realizes that the inmate could not have hanged himself as claimed by the SO.
The SP is going to GJ with what the BCI and Coroner investigations produced. This way it will be the "public" (GJ) legitimizing what the Coroner claimed, homicide by strangulation, after all the media coverage blaming the Coroner for what the Chief Deputy labeled as part of her "political agenda." With a GJ agreeing with the Coroner's findings, that will provide the SP complete political separation from the Coroner and the absolute "authority" to go after all those involved in the cover-up, including the Chief Deputy and Prosecutor, tampering with the sprinkler head and surveillance video, knowingly allowing their destruction to the point where no one would be able to prove anything from both crucial evidentiary items in any court one way or another.
So, what is "complex" for Mr. Breyer, being handed a "bag of worms" investigation-wise by the initial BCI team, will be transformed by the GJ into a case where Mr. Breyer will be able to do "his thing." That is, he will go after everyone this time with a better result than his performance on the Marcus Fiesel case, where Amy Baker successfully wiggled her way out of Mr. Breyer's net. This case will put Mr. Breyer on the national map of news items for some time to come.
The Chief Deputy's son will go down, and with him the Chief Deputy too for tampering with evidence twice during two on-going investigations. There will be numerous individuals taking the fall sooner rather than later.
The problem those directly responsible are facing is that Sheriff Wenninger is retiring at the end of this year. He will be replaced with a new sheriff appointed by the Republicans. Every deputy sticking to the official story line of that October 5th, 2013, morning, for whatever reason (threats, etc.) will do time, or at the very least lose their peace officer certificates. The cover-up has gone too long for anyone in the know to come forward now with any excuse for not coming forward earlier with the truth. Whoever knows the truth will be "thrown under the bus" by both the Sheriff and Chief Deputy in their effort to save their own hide.
Look for MAJOR changes in the SO within the next five months. Deputies who chose to "toe the line" under Wenninger and Schadle are going to be wishing they had more integrity and courage to do what was right a long time ago rather than follow two idiots that could care less about their personnel. Both idiots have already squandered the "rank and file" reputation-wise professionally, which will really "hurt" if both are allowed to walk away unscathed, while the rest of the office personnel get the pink slip, with no other police organization in SW Ohio wanting to hire them even as a janitor in their facility.
Any deputy wanting to save what is left of his career had better be going to those officials in charge with accurate information so the shoes of illegal conduct are placed on the correct feet. All of this is pretty simple to figure out with only a few minutes of conscious thinking.
This all seems reasonable and prudent indeed ! Let me know when we can start singing' That's the sound of the men, working on the chain gang " !!! Of course I am hopeful there will be at least 2 female types on that chain hang gang at the same time !

My question is,,,,,, will there be an outside GJ that this will all be presented to or local folks who either are NOT smart enough to understand the evidence presented or too afraid to return an indictment ?
car007

Florence, KY

#3 Jul 27, 2014
Poor Deputies Going Down wrote:
Article in The News Democrat says it all: 95% chance of going to GJ. That means it is not suicide in the eyes of the SP, or else he'd just go for a change in the death cert. What this means is that the SP, in light of the Coroner's input, received about four months ago, realizes that the inmate could not have hanged himself as claimed by the SO.
The SP is going to GJ with what the BCI and Coroner investigations produced. This way it will be the "public" (GJ) legitimizing what the Coroner claimed, homicide by strangulation, after all the media coverage blaming the Coroner for what the Chief Deputy labeled as part of her "political agenda." With a GJ agreeing with the Coroner's findings, that will provide the SP complete political separation from the Coroner and the absolute "authority" to go after all those involved in the cover-up, including the Chief Deputy and Prosecutor, tampering with the sprinkler head and surveillance video, knowingly allowing their destruction to the point where no one would be able to prove anything from both crucial evidentiary items in any court one way or another.
So, what is "complex" for Mr. Breyer, being handed a "bag of worms" investigation-wise by the initial BCI team, will be transformed by the GJ into a case where Mr. Breyer will be able to do "his thing." That is, he will go after everyone this time with a better result than his performance on the Marcus Fiesel case, where Amy Baker successfully wiggled her way out of Mr. Breyer's net. This case will put Mr. Breyer on the national map of news items for some time to come.
The Chief Deputy's son will go down, and with him the Chief Deputy too for tampering with evidence twice during two on-going investigations. There will be numerous individuals taking the fall sooner rather than later.
The problem those directly responsible are facing is that Sheriff Wenninger is retiring at the end of this year. He will be replaced with a new sheriff appointed by the Republicans. Every deputy sticking to the official story line of that October 5th, 2013, morning, for whatever reason (threats, etc.) will do time, or at the very least lose their peace officer certificates. The cover-up has gone too long for anyone in the know to come forward now with any excuse for not coming forward earlier with the truth. Whoever knows the truth will be "thrown under the bus" by both the Sheriff and Chief Deputy in their effort to save their own hide.
Look for MAJOR changes in the SO within the next five months. Deputies who chose to "toe the line" under Wenninger and Schadle are going to be wishing they had more integrity and courage to do what was right a long time ago rather than follow two idiots that could care less about their personnel.
They are not poor deputies, they are weak people who were lead by crappy managers and the foul odor that was created by them, simply permeated all who followed ! Soon, the air will be cleared and that most unpleasant odor within Brown County will be refreshed ! Hopefully by someone with Integrity and Intelligence !

Let us NOT forget the Brown County Commissioners and Prosecutor either, nor any judges that have any involvement and or knowledge ! Some " Spring Cleaning " in the Fall would be nice, or even as a Christmas present to the Good People of Brown County !

But, let us NOT count our chickens just yet, there is much judicial work to be done first !

I agree, Woody Breyer has a Golden Opportunity to be " Spotlighted " here and in the National Spotlight, not just local.

I sense, there will be someone who will create a movie when this is all said and done or at least write a book. Perhaps I will augment my retirement by writing one myself !

I can see it now, right in front of the Sheriff;s Office, this Huge Sign with flashing lights and on the board it will read; NOW HIRING, APPLY WITHIN ??
car007

Florence, KY

#4 Jul 27, 2014
Poor Deputies Going Down wrote:
Article in The News Democrat says it all: 95% chance of going to GJ. That means it is not suicide in the eyes of the SP, or else he'd just go for a change in the death cert. What this means is that the SP, in light of the Coroner's input, received about four months ago, realizes that the inmate could not have hanged himself as claimed by the SO.
The SP is going to GJ with what the BCI and Coroner investigations produced. This way it will be the "public" (GJ) legitimizing what the Coroner claimed, homicide by strangulation, after all the media coverage blaming the Coroner for what the Chief Deputy labeled as part of her "political agenda." With a GJ agreeing with the Coroner's findings, that will provide the SP complete political separation from the Coroner and the absolute "authority" to go after all those involved in the cover-up, including the Chief Deputy and Prosecutor, tampering with the sprinkler head and surveillance video, knowingly allowing their destruction to the point where no one would be able to prove anything from both crucial evidentiary items in any court one way or another.
So, what is "complex" for Mr. Breyer, being handed a "bag of worms" investigation-wise by the initial BCI team, will be transformed by the GJ into a case where Mr. Breyer will be able to do "his thing." That is, he will go after everyone this time with a better result than his performance on the Marcus Fiesel case, where Amy Baker successfully wiggled her way out of Mr. Breyer's net. This case will put Mr. Breyer on the national map of news items for some time to come.
The Chief Deputy's son will go down, and with him the Chief Deputy too for tampering with evidence twice during two on-going investigations. There will be numerous individuals taking the fall sooner rather than later.
The problem those directly responsible are facing is that Sheriff Wenninger is retiring at the end of this year. He will be replaced with a new sheriff appointed by the Republicans. Every deputy sticking to the official story line of that October 5th, 2013, morning, for whatever reason (threats, etc.) will do time, or at the very least lose their peace officer certificates. The cover-up has gone too long for anyone in the know to come forward now with any excuse for not coming forward earlier with the truth. Whoever knows the truth will be "thrown under the bus" by both the Sheriff and Chief Deputy in their effort to save their own hide.
Look for MAJOR changes in the SO within the next five months. Deputies who chose to "toe the line" under Wenninger and Schadle are going to be wishing they had more integrity and courage to do what was right a long time ago rather than follow two idiots that could care less about their personnel. Both idiots have already squandered the "rank and file" reputation-wise professionally, which will really "hurt" if both are allowed to walk away unscathed, while the rest of the office personnel get the pink slip, with no other police organization in SW Ohio wanting to hire them even as a janitor in their facility.
Any deputy wanting to save what is left of his career had better be going to those officials in charge with accurate information so the shoes of illegal conduct are placed on the correct feet. All of this is pretty simple to figure out with only a few minutes of conscious thinking.
Libby,

Does this possibly mean you will have to find another job ? I know you mentioned you had mouths to feed and NOT making light of that, if you are at all part of this administration, you might want to start putting some feelers out there, I would think the New Sheriff would pretty much be cleaning house from within ? This might be the last chance for anyone to mitigate for themselves ?
Bud

Georgetown, OH

#5 Jul 27, 2014
car007 wrote:
<quoted text>
This all seems reasonable and prudent indeed ! Let me know when we can start singing' That's the sound of the men, working on the chain gang " !!! Of course I am hopeful there will be at least 2 female types on that chain hang gang at the same time !
My question is,,,,,, will there be an outside GJ that this will all be presented to or local folks who either are NOT smart enough to understand the evidence presented or too afraid to return an indictment ?
It sounds as though the GJ will be a Brown County GJ. You are right that many of these people are not bright enough. I've served on juries here and have benn appalled at their thinking process or lack there of. Too many ignore facts and make decisions based on personal feelings or interests. That's why these useless officials get elected in the first place.
car007

Florence, KY

#6 Jul 27, 2014
Bud wrote:
<quoted text>
It sounds as though the GJ will be a Brown County GJ. You are right that many of these people are not bright enough. I've served on juries here and have benn appalled at their thinking process or lack there of. Too many ignore facts and make decisions based on personal feelings or interests. That's why these useless officials get elected in the first place.
Bud, I was hoping it would not be from BC. The question always exists in every county regarding the intellect level of a juror. The selection process does not always produce what you want or need. I am not sure how they select a GJ anymore. Years ago, I thought it was done randomly and had nothing to do with being chosen individually .
So an outcome could be determined on timing ? If the SP presents his case to a GJ who is in love or bed with someone from the BCSO or administration, or feels intimidated, where can this all possibly be fair and impartial ? Curious ?
Bud

Georgetown, OH

#7 Jul 27, 2014
car007 wrote:
<quoted text>
Bud, I was hoping it would not be from BC. The question always exists in every county regarding the intellect level of a juror. The selection process does not always produce what you want or need. I am not sure how they select a GJ anymore. Years ago, I thought it was done randomly and had nothing to do with being chosen individually .
So an outcome could be determined on timing ? If the SP presents his case to a GJ who is in love or bed with someone from the BCSO or administration, or feels intimidated, where can this all possibly be fair and impartial ? Curious ?
It is just common sense that this needs to be sent to a GJ and tried outside if this county. According to Breyer's comments in the News Democrat, he wants the people of Brown County to decide this. Either he has overwhelming evidence or he doesn't know us very well. Either way, I don't think it can be fair and just.
SP Will Not Mislead GJ

Wilmington, OH

#8 Jul 27, 2014
BC GJs might leave a lot to be desired when it comes to the overall average intelligence of those chosen. The outcome is not going to be more dependent on the jurors, but rather on the SP's presentation to the GJurors.

There is no way Mr. Breyer is going to keep from that jury all the information available from BCI and the Coroner. To do so would be placing himself in the position of being "caught" later on in court by Scott Greenwood in the wrongful death action, and also the media. The mother got the complete Coroner record as next-of-kin. You can be sure her attorney has a copy of it, and probably the media too, both just waiting to see what happens next by Mr. Breyer.

I don't see Mr. Breyer misleading the jurors at all, but presenting to them exactly what has been given to him. The two facts alone, about the height of the sprinkler head and that it could not hold his weight up by the sheet without breaking and filling the cell with water, do not support anyone "cutting him down" from anything. Even a juror with a grade school mentality could understand that impossibility. Someone may have cut the sheet as seen in the photo, but the cut itself indicates that there was no weight hanging on the sheet when it was cut with such a straight-line cut, plus the sprinkler head would have broken off if he ever was hanged from it. He didn't hang himself, that is perfectly clear.

It is not in the SP's interest in any way to mislead the GJ. There is too much information out there already that can't be explained away to be a suicide by Mr. Goldson. Mr. Breyer would become the premier example of stupidity to try and "hide" or "mislead" the GJ in this case. It would be his professional suicide, because his actions in misleading the GJ would be exposed sooner or later. The attorney for the mother, Scott Greenwood, would make Breyer the most embarrassed attorney laughing stalk walking the streets when that case hits the court. Mr. Breyer doesn't need another "Amy Baker" feather in his cap out there stuck to his career.

On the other hand, think about the limelight Woody would enjoy, and the energizing effect this case will have on his career, if he routs out all the bad apples, not only in the SO, but others involved in the county, like the prosecutor. The case has been reported internationally, even by Russian Times, and other foreign press outlets. There have to be a lot of people wondering what ever happened to this case, that should have been a slam dunk in a matter of weeks, not 10 months.

My opinion. There is going to be a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth when it is all over. And after that, there are going to be a lot of former and left over deputies and COs who are going to be wishing they could turn back the hands of time to be on the "right" side of things. In all probability, too late now.

With that Georgetown video, defendants are going to have a hard time defending that conduct prior to Goldson's death doesn't support an aggravated murder. Whatever the charge ends up being, it will apply to all those complicit in the cover-up, either by keeping their mouth shut, or by tampering with evidence. That has to be a lot of years in prison one way or another.
car007

Florence, KY

#9 Jul 27, 2014
SP Will Not Mislead GJ wrote:
BC GJs might leave a lot to be desired when it comes to the overall average intelligence of those chosen. The outcome is not going to be more dependent on the jurors, but rather on the SP's presentation to the GJurors.
There is no way Mr. Breyer is going to keep from that jury all the information available from BCI and the Coroner. To do so would be placing himself in the position of being "caught" later on in court by Scott Greenwood in the wrongful death action, and also the media. The mother got the complete Coroner record as next-of-kin. You can be sure her attorney has a copy of it, and probably the media too, both just waiting to see what happens next by Mr. Breyer.
I don't see Mr. Breyer misleading the jurors at all, but presenting to them exactly what has been given to him. The two facts alone, about the height of the sprinkler head and that it could not hold his weight up by the sheet without breaking and filling the cell with water, do not support anyone "cutting him down" from anything. Even a juror with a grade school mentality could understand that impossibility. Someone may have cut the sheet as seen in the photo, but the cut itself indicates that there was no weight hanging on the sheet when it was cut with such a straight-line cut, plus the sprinkler head would have broken off if he ever was hanged from it. He didn't hang himself, that is perfectly clear.
It is not in the SP's interest in any way to mislead the GJ. There is too much information out there already that can't be explained away to be a suicide by Mr. Goldson. Mr. Breyer would become the premier example of stupidity to try and "hide" or "mislead" the GJ in this case. It would be his professional suicide, because his actions in misleading the GJ would be exposed sooner or later. The attorney for the mother, Scott Greenwood, would make Breyer the most embarrassed attorney laughing stalk walking the streets when that case hits the court. Mr. Breyer doesn't need another "Amy Baker" feather in his cap out there stuck to his career.

With that Georgetown video, defendants are going to have a hard time defending that conduct prior to Goldson's death doesn't support an aggravated murder. Whatever the charge ends up being, it will apply to all those complicit in the cover-up, either by keeping their mouth shut, or by tampering with evidence. That has to be a lot of years in prison one way or another.
I would agree, Woody isn't going to embarrass himself to save anyones ass in Brown County, he has much more Integrity than that. The larger concern being, the people who sit on the GJ and their ability to be impartial after all of the negative press coverage of the Coroner in the immediate area. A change of venue would make much more sense !

This has gone on so long, why not keep any and all appearance of impropriety away from it ?
Bud

Georgetown, OH

#10 Jul 27, 2014
car007 wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree, Woody isn't going to embarrass himself to save anyones ass in Brown County, he has much more Integrity than that. The larger concern being, the people who sit on the GJ and their ability to be impartial after all of the negative press coverage of the Coroner in the immediate area. A change of venue would make much more sense !
This has gone on so long, why not keep any and all appearance of impropriety away from it ?
I agree. It is the actions if the GJ that have me worried. As you say, too much bad publicity about the coroner and people around here don't let facts shade their opinions.
car007

Florence, KY

#11 Jul 27, 2014
Bud wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. It is the actions if the GJ that have me worried. As you say, too much bad publicity about the coroner and people around here don't let facts shade their opinions.
Anyone have an idea when any of this will be presented to the grand jury ?
Libby

Georgetown, OH

#12 Jul 27, 2014
No it certainly doesn't. No worries for me either way, but I do see a lot of posturing for when/if things don't go the way a few folks on here think/hope they will. As for buds excuse of bad publicity for the coroner, I thought she came out on top? She certainly hasn't been called a murderer on local and national news....
Bud

Georgetown, OH

#13 Jul 27, 2014
Libby wrote:
No it certainly doesn't. No worries for me either way, but I do see a lot of posturing for when/if things don't go the way a few folks on here think/hope they will. As for buds excuse of bad publicity for the coroner, I thought she came out on top? She certainly hasn't been called a murderer on local and national news....
She was maligned on the local news especially Channel 12. The decision received much less coverage than the charges and even the decision was reported in a negative manner. My favorite was one channel reporting that the majority of the county's citizens were upset and irate about the decision. Jaffe, the idiot, said her troubles were just beginning and there would be many more lawsuits against her. You may not consider those kinds of remarks as negative but I do.

I don't know about any of us posturing. Common sense dictates what the outcome should be. I apologize if you think I was making excuses for jurors who might not base their decisions on facts. I certainly was not. I was merely explaining how some people don't base their decisions on facts but on preconceived notions and gossip. Unfortunately that kind of thinking is prevalent in Brown County. As I said earlier, I can personally attest to that from my own experience on juries in this county.
car007

Florence, KY

#14 Jul 28, 2014
Libby wrote:
No it certainly doesn't. No worries for me either way, but I do see a lot of posturing for when/if things don't go the way a few folks on here think/hope they will. As for buds excuse of bad publicity for the coroner, I thought she came out on top? She certainly hasn't been called a murderer on local and national news....
;
The only thing the Coroner came out on top of any list was, the chopping block by BCSO, Prosecutor and Hawkins. Not sure what articles you were reading or apparently you missed Jiffy Richie Jaffey's " Irresponsible Reporting ".
Perhaps she will come out on top of this next round and then you can qualify yourself with such a comment ?
Perhaps had you been capable of being more objective to the facts and what common sense and decency represented, NOT what the vocal minority were saying, you could have seen the immoral and unprofessional conduct by those writing the articles and or petitioning against the Coroner.. How could you have missed al of that for so many months ?
Denial ? Hang in there and read closely this next few months, I suspect you will have a much better understanding of who did what and who didn't. You probably wont read it in the local papers though, objective reporting or facts do not appear to be within their Ethics to report. Legal hearings are the closest we ever get to hearing the possible truth. Let us sit back and watch Sir Woody Breyer " DO " his thing ! It will be refreshing to see a " Real " and Talented Prosecutor work in Brown County Ohio. Yall know, one who " Runs with the Law " NOT " Away " from it !
Perhaps the " sitting " prosecutor for Brown County will learn a few things from a Talented and Seasoned Professional in the business ?
That might just confuse some of the jurrors but I am hopeful, he can present this at the right level of understanding for the jurrors !
tornado man

Georgetown, OH

#16 Jul 28, 2014
BIG WINDS A'COMIN !!!!!!!!!! Better run for cover !!!!!!!!!!
car007

Florence, KY

#17 Jul 28, 2014
tornado man wrote:
BIG WINDS A'COMIN !!!!!!!!!! Better run for cover !!!!!!!!!!
Run TOTO Run !!! or ????????
Clod farmer

Amelia, OH

#18 Jul 28, 2014
I hope that the witch hunt will come to an end soon. And fed up will learn to outgrow her condescending attitude and put on her big girl panties and accept reality!
Reality Check

Batavia, OH

#19 Jul 28, 2014
Many of you are doomed to disappointment. All the talk about "the murder in the jail" and "deputies going down" aside, there will be no murder indictments. The only reason it's going to the grand jury in the first place is to keep those of you with BCSO voodoo dolls from shouting "conspiracy!" if Breyer made the decision himself not to file such charges. I can see some minor charges relating to policy violations being found, but the general behind the scenes consensus is that the coroner overreached with the homicide ruling. It will all come to a head in early September.
Clod farmer

Amelia, OH

#20 Jul 28, 2014
Sad but true!
car007

Florence, KY

#21 Jul 28, 2014
Reality Check wrote:
Many of you are doomed to disappointment. All the talk about "the murder in the jail" and "deputies going down" aside, there will be no murder indictments. The only reason it's going to the grand jury in the first place is to keep those of you with BCSO voodoo dolls from shouting "conspiracy!" if Breyer made the decision himself not to file such charges. I can see some minor charges relating to policy violations being found, but the general behind the scenes consensus is that the coroner overreached with the homicide ruling. It will all come to a head in early September.
You and " THEY " will be very lucky to walk away with only Administrative Procedures being dealt with. I cannot see the AG wasting any time or money if this was the case.. Good thought for your side, but makes NO sense !

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