Adam and Eve or Evolution

[nmweatherman]

Lobo Viejo wrote:

Entropy increases over time ONLY inside closed thermodynamic systems. Animals and animal species are not closed thermodynamic systems.

Au contraire, we are a closed thermodynamic system and, being warm-blooded mammals, must stay within a precise temperature range or all hell breaks loose. And...entropy (of our cells and in the form of diseases) gets us in the end. The grave waits. Entropy takes over the moment we are born. We are highly-organized flesh-and-blood systems that begin dying from day one.

[Willothewisp]

Lobo Viejo wrote:

<quoted text>
Creationists have been misapplying the Second Law of Thermodynamics for decades, so why don't you cut and paste something a little more orginal.
Entropy increases over time ONLY inside closed thermodynamic systems. Animals and animal species are not closed thermodynamic systems.
Better yet, why don't you take a class in physical chemistry so you won't misquote the laws of thermodyamics again.

Excellent point. There is a quantum leap of difference between a Theory and a Law.

[davy]

there goes the christian lying again....entropy refers to the cessation of heat in a closed system....every time you lie the imaginary baby jesus cries

nmweatherman wrote:

<quoted text>
Au contraire, we are a closed thermodynamic system and, being warm-blooded mammals, must stay within a precise temperature range or all hell breaks loose. And...entropy (of our cells and in the form of diseases) gets us in the end. The grave waits. Entropy takes over the moment we are born. We are highly-organized flesh-and-blood systems that begin dying from day one.

[bbb]

you know I hate jose phonys cut and paste but I have to do this oneabout the second law of thermodynamics. i also want to place a curse on all of you who even make me think about physics.

from talkorigins.com search for second law.

"Failure to understand that in thermodynamics probabilities are not fixed entities has led to a misinterpretation that is responsible for the wide- spread and totally false belief that the second law of thermodynamics does not permit order to spontaneously arise from disorder. In fact, there are many examples in nature where order does arise spontaneously from disorder: Snowflakes with their six-sided crystalline symmetry are formed spontaneously from randomly moving water vapor molecules. Salts with precise planes of crystalline symmetry form spontaneously when water evaporates from a solution. Seeds sprout into flowering plants and eggs develop into chicks.

Thermodynamics is an exact science that is based on a limited number of specific mathematical concepts. It is not explainable in terms of qualitative metaphors. In order to understand the relationship between probability and the second law, the reader must be familiar with the relationship between probability and entropy. Entropy is a mathematically defined entity which is the fundamental basis of the second law of thermodynamics and all of its engineering and physical chemistry ramifications. "

[bbb]

This from the same article:

A favorite argument of creationists is that the probability of evolution occurring is about the same as the probability that a tornado blowing through a junkyard could form an airplane. They base this argument on their belief that changes in living things have a very low probability and could not occur without "intelligent design" which overcomes the laws of thermodynamics. This represents a fundamental contradiction in which (they say) evolution is inconsistent with thermodynamics because thermodynamics doesn't permit order to spontaneously arise from disorder, but creationism (in the guise of intelligent design) doesn't have to be consistent with the laws of thermodynamics

[bbb]

nmweatherman wrote:

<quoted text>
Au contraire, we are a closed thermodynamic system and, being warm-blooded mammals, must stay within a precise temperature range or all hell breaks loose. And...entropy (of our cells and in the form of diseases) gets us in the end. The grave waits. Entropy takes over the moment we are born. We are highly-organized flesh-and-blood systems that begin dying from day one.

no you are wrong: entropy does not take over when we are born, because a living organism is not a closed system. we consume energy in the form of calories and release energy into the environment through heat and waste products. yes entroy does take over when we die because we are no longer exchanging energy with the environment.

also the earth is not a closed system. heat energy from the sun is transferred to the earth every day and stored in plants.

[Willothewisp]

bbb, are you and J1 having a contest on consecutive postings. More entropy would be...just kidding.

[Lobo Viejo]

nmweatherman wrote:

<quoted text>
Au contraire, we are a closed thermodynamic system and, being warm-blooded mammals, must stay within a precise temperature range or all hell breaks loose. And...entropy (of our cells and in the form of diseases) gets us in the end. The grave waits. Entropy takes over the moment we are born. We are highly-organized flesh-and-blood systems that begin dying from day one.

You are incorrect. Living organisms of any kind are not closed thermodynamic systems. With regard to mammals, every breath of air, sip of water, bite of food, poop, pee, and transfer of heat (such as from standing in the sun or next to a fire) makes us a leaky thermodynamic system.

The creationist BS that you and Joseph cut and paste from misrepresents and misapplies the laws of physics.

You have the freedom to believe in whatever supernatural religious mumbo jumbo suits your fancy. But you cannot force fit science into your dogma. Sorry.

[Darwin]

There is no scientific proof of the adam and eve per the bible account. There is more and more evidence of evolution. believe what you want as long as it does not interfer with my beliefs.

besides, the only purpose of any religous document is to teach lessons.

[nmweatherman]

The second law of thermodynamics states that in any isolated system, the degree of disorder can only increase. Our universe is an isolated system, so the degree of disorder is always increasing. How is this possible?

Movement towards order requires energy. Take the example of a shirt, folding it takes more energy than throwing it on the ground. Another way of saying this, is that creation of a disorganized state is spontaneous, that is, it doesn’t require energy. Entropy is the amount of disorder in an isolated system, or our universe.

Human mortality is related to the amount of entropy in our body. Once the entropy increases to a certain level, we are no longer able to complete our required functions.(Note: this is where I was wrong)...However, we don’t constantly increase in entropy from the day we are born. Instead, we maintain a stasis of order, until old age.

How do we maintain, and even increase order, without going against the second law of thermodynamics? The human body is not an isolated system. The human body acts in conjunction with the rest of the biosphere. We ingest “energy” from food that we eat, which has previously taken it from the sun. So while we are increasing our level of order, that around us is decreasing.

Now I have to ask: who or what created or caused this universe to come into existence and run on these particular principles (the laws of thermodynamics)? What/Who was the "prime mover"?

[Lobo Viejo]

nmweatherman wrote:

The second law of thermodynamics states that in any isolated system, the degree of disorder can only increase. Our universe is an isolated system, so the degree of disorder is always increasing. How is this possible?
Movement towards order requires energy. Take the example of a shirt, folding it takes more energy than throwing it on the ground. Another way of saying this, is that creation of a disorganized state is spontaneous, that is, it doesn’t require energy. Entropy is the amount of disorder in an isolated system, or our universe.
Human mortality is related to the amount of entropy in our body. Once the entropy increases to a certain level, we are no longer able to complete our required functions.(Note: this is where I was wrong)...However, we don’t constantly increase in entropy from the day we are born. Instead, we maintain a stasis of order, until old age.
How do we maintain, and even increase order, without going against the second law of thermodynamics? The human body is not an isolated system. The human body acts in conjunction with the rest of the biosphere. We ingest “energy” from food that we eat, which has previously taken it from the sun. So while we are increasing our level of order, that around us is decreasing.
Now I have to ask: who or what created or caused this universe to come into existence and run on these particular principles (the laws of thermodynamics)? What/Who was the "prime mover"?

I don't know how the Second Law of Thermo can be explained to you any more clearly. Yet you continue to misunderstand and misapply it. The creationist propaganda that you seem to be getting these arguments from is fraught with scientific and mathematical errors, and is one of the worst examples of pseudo-science.

The advancement of science has been suppressed and hindered for hundreds of years by antiquated religious beliefs, and by the clergy who vehemently try to force their dogma on everyone else. There is no difference between how the church opposes evolution today, and how the church convicted Galileo of heresy 300 years ago for writing a paper about heliocentrism.

Keep your supernatural religious mythology in your church and home, where it belongs, and stay the hell out of the way of science.

[nmweatherman]

Now I have to ask: who or what created or caused this universe to come into existence and run on these particular principles (the laws of thermodynamics)? What/Who was the "prime mover"?

You still haven't addressed this question. You won't, because you are an angry and bitter person. If you are an example of what "logic" and "science" turns someone into, Lord, keep me safe.

C-ya.

[bbb]

nmweatherman wrote:

Now I have to ask: who or what created or caused this universe to come into existence and run on these particular principles (the laws of thermodynamics)? What/Who was the "prime mover"?
You still haven't addressed this question. You won't, because you are an angry and bitter person. If you are an example of what "logic" and "science" turns someone into, Lord, keep me safe.
C-ya.

science does not care about why or who or even if there is a who. that is a question for philosophy.

[Willothewisp]

bbb wrote:

<quoted text>
science does not care about why or who or even if there is a who. that is a question for philosophy.

Tend to disagree. First Cause is a subject of both science and Philosophy. Why else the Big Bang Theory?

[nmweatherman]

What came before?

What comes after?

The eternal questions science can approach with hypothesis but never answer or know.

[Clark Griswold]

nmweatherman wrote:

What came before?
What comes after?
The eternal questions science can approach with hypothesis but never answer or know.

As much as every living person would like to know the answer to that question, no one does. Your pastor is a liar. So's the pope, the grand rabbi, and the head ayatollah. No one knows the answers to the mysteries of the origin of the universe. Because a flawed nonsensical tale of how it came to be is written in your bible doesn't make it so.

[Lobo Viejo]

nmweatherman wrote:

Now I have to ask: who or what created or caused this universe to come into existence and run on these particular principles (the laws of thermodynamics)? What/Who was the "prime mover"?
You still haven't addressed this question. You won't, because you are an angry and bitter person. If you are an example of what "logic" and "science" turns someone into, Lord, keep me safe.
C-ya.

"Who" created the universe? Rather ethnocentric of you to believe that someone had to create the space, time, matter, energy of the universe. How can the universe and time not be infinite? And matter and energy can be transformed but the basic stuff of the universe, as we know it, cannot be created or destroyed. Thus, the universe has always existed in one shape or form, and always will.

No mortal being on this planet really knows what happens after life. Although many religious leaders try to tell us what to believe in, they have not been there, if there even is a there, and they are not qualified to know.

As for angry and bitter people, go read some of your own posts. Your Lord will keep you safe, until something bad happens to you. And I wish you the most blissful state of ignorance that any man has ever had.

[skinwalker]

How can evolution explain emotions? Matter and energy do not feel, even the most complex chemicals do not experience feelings. How about love? Animals do not have these emotions, so how did humans develop them?

How about survival of the fittest? Countless people through history have endangered or sacrificed their lives for another. This is completely at odds with Darwin’s theory.

How does evolution explain how male and female reproductive organs evolved at the same time?

How about the chicken and the egg? What is evolutions answer?
How about which was first, the protein or DNA? For instance, chickens consist of proteins. The code for each protein is contained in the DNA. However, proteins are required in order to manufacture DNA.

How does evolution explain animal instincts? It blows my mind to think of the vast variety of species and each with it’s own separate instinct. A newly hatched spider weaves an intricate web without being taught. A recently emerged butterfly somehow knows to navigate a 2,500-mile migration route without a guide.

I am not very knowledgeable about evolution, and I really am curious if anyone has thoughts about one or more of these. Thank you.....

[JosephOne]

http://www.mhrc.net/mitochondria.htm

The Mitochondrial Clock:
The story of Mitochondrial Eve.

[vinceger]

If we have black wholes one would think that we have WHITE wholes also!
The energy around our planet is vortexed into channels in order to circulate and create and other wholes are there to suck the energy in order to have a balance.
The story around Adam and Eve is a prologue from philosopher giving us the choice to live life as the tree of good and evil which means a life controled by our egos or through the tree of life which is a life without ego. Your choice!
Why do animals do things the way they do things is an accululation of knowledge transmitted from one to another since their appearance.
we are probably the most ignorant and less prepared species on this planet.

Just my ego point of view.