Budget Offers From The Peanut Gallery...

“Shoot First, Think Never”

Since: Jun 09

Elk Grove

#21 Nov 30, 2012
http://hushmoney.org/free-church_solution.htm

The courts well-understand that “a church is not an entity recognized in law,” meaning that they have no jurisdiction over the church. However, organizing a church as a church is an especially difficult concept for attorneys to grasp. Few attorneys can comprehend that there are things and issues completely outside the purview and jurisdiction of the civil government, nor do they much care for the idea. After all, it’s hard to get many billable hours out of those churches that understand that the civil government has no jurisdiction over them. A free-church needs an attorney like a fish needs a bicycle.

The legal support for the State’s lack of jurisdiction over the church in America is not only the Word of God, but the First Amendment to the Constitution for the United States:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…
No church in any nation at any point in history can lay claim to the freedoms and liberties that are guaranteed the church in America. The First Amendment is an act of God’s Providence to safeguard His church and maintain its independence from the State. The First Amendment is the highest form of real protection the church has ever known in history.

The solution rests in the church abandoning the phony third-rate protections and benefits of the State and returning to those real protections and benefits that are ours in Christ Jesus.

Although it's not inherently difficult to unlicense a State-Church1 and/or organize and operate as a free-church or free-ministry, you'll still need some guidance and direction. Thankfully, there's no need to hire an attorney. All you need is some basic do-it-yourself education, and that's what this ministry offers.

We have a couple of options available for you, but for most folks the best one is our National Unlicensed Church Conference. Videos and Syllabus of that conference are available.

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#22 Nov 30, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
http://hushmoney.org/501c3-pro blems.htm
When a church accepts the 501c3 status, that church:
Waives its freedom of speech.
Waives its freedom of religion.
Waives its right to influence legislators and the legislation they craft.
Waives its constitutionally guaranteed rights.
Is no longer free to speak to the vital issues of the day.
Becomes controlled by a spirit of fear that if it doesn’t toe the line with the IRS it will lose its tax-exempt status.
Becomes a State-Church.
The church in America today is, by and large, not speaking to the vital issues of the day. The church has been effectively silenced. There has been a chilling effect upon the church’s freedom of speech for fear of IRS retribution should the church get out of line. The inevitable result is a moral downward spiral in the culture as the church stands mute.
This did not happen by accident, but by design, and it is something of relatively recent design. Churches were added to IRS Code § 501c3 in 1954. All one need do is analyze who is responsible for sponsoring the congressional bill to include churches in § 501c3 and it should become apparent that his agenda was not to empower the church, but to silence the church (hint: the sponsor was a Senator from Texas who later became President).
Silenced? like hell, they do all of the above things you say their not suppose to do.

Churches are BIG MONEY, most, not all bring in tons of it and there is no way to know exactly how much cash was put into those baskets.

Yes they are suppose to help their flock and some do, not all.

And to get help requires a lot of begging and proving you truly need it.

What about the churches stand on illegals ? the churchs thinks we should allow and support them but does the church feed, cloth and offer homes for them? NO

“Shoot First, Think Never”

Since: Jun 09

Elk Grove

#23 Nov 30, 2012
Bluntly Spoken wrote:
<quoted text>
Silenced? like hell, they do all of the above things you say their not suppose to do.
Churches are BIG MONEY, most, not all bring in tons of it and there is no way to know exactly how much cash was put into those baskets.
Yes they are suppose to help their flock and some do, not all.
And to get help requires a lot of begging and proving you truly need it.
What about the churches stand on illegals ? the churchs thinks we should allow and support them but does the church feed, cloth and offer homes for them? NO
Depends on the church actually...the stance on illegals that is...and also depends upon the church how and who they help...leadership and people of the churches vary...

The government muddied the waters with the 501c3 thing...

No...not most...look around you neighborhood...drive down a few side streets and most churches are just that neighborhood churches...most of the money in these churches of with "membership" of between 25 and 200 at most depending the size of the building is used for two things...running/maintaining the building {cleaning, a/c, heat stuff like that}, some compensation to elders/pastors but usually not a regular salary...most of these churches the elders/pastors have to have job...and then you have the community services...like food pantries and stuff...

Lets say the average church of this size with these expenses are 3000 or more dollars...and sometimes per month with donations they will get that or exceed that by a few hundred or not meet that by a few hundred...

And you're gonna tax that?

So that the government will have more say and influence over things?

Now, you do have your mega churches...and these churches are prominent but they aren't nearly as many of them as the neighborhood churches...

They are run a little bit more like a business of sorts...
Hagar

Sterling Heights, MI

#24 Nov 30, 2012
Can't you see, KM, that the government wants to be our church and our God, in violation of the First Commandment. They want to tell us what to worship, what not to worship, where and were not to worship, and who and who not to worship. If they succeed we won't need churches or clergy and will become the automatons of the state. The government, however, will not be able to fulfill the role of the church. FEMA does less good today than the churches do. Just ask the people on Staten Island. You will have to get a number and stand in line for the benefits churches now provide.

“Shoot First, Think Never”

Since: Jun 09

Elk Grove

#25 Nov 30, 2012
Hagar wrote:
Can't you see, KM, that the government wants to be our church and our God, in violation of the First Commandment. They want to tell us what to worship, what not to worship, where and were not to worship, and who and who not to worship. If they succeed we won't need churches or clergy and will become the automatons of the state. The government, however, will not be able to fulfill the role of the church. FEMA does less good today than the churches do. Just ask the people on Staten Island. You will have to get a number and stand in line for the benefits churches now provide.
Yeah...it is going in that direction isn't it?

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#26 Nov 30, 2012
Hagar wrote:
Can't you see, KM, that the government wants to be our church and our God, in violation of the First Commandment. They want to tell us what to worship, what not to worship, where and were not to worship, and who and who not to worship. If they succeed we won't need churches or clergy and will become the automatons of the state. The government, however, will not be able to fulfill the role of the church. FEMA does less good today than the churches do. Just ask the people on Staten Island. You will have to get a number and stand in line for the benefits churches now provide.
Interesting but no one will ever tell me wheh,where,how to worship or what religion I must accept.

All the more so any government.

There are things one can do to prevent that.

“Each Thought Creates A Reality”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#27 Nov 30, 2012
That's right. The GOP is going to cave because there is little difference in the end between either party. Get rid of churches or their tax breaks, the wealthy, mortgage deductions and then the deductibility of IRA's and retirement accounts. That is a lot of money waiting for the tax collector.

Anyone that earned or saved is better off than those that didn't and should not get an advantage because of unfair tax code regulations and laws. They earned it on the backs of the poor. You save, then you should lose. Better off? Then you can afford to help those who aren't. Simple. What is not to like?

“Each Thought Creates A Reality”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#28 Nov 30, 2012
Bluntly Spoken wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting but no one will ever tell me wheh,where,how to worship or what religion I must accept.
All the more so any government.
There are things one can do to prevent that.
That is why we have the First Amendment. It stops governments from telling you if, when and where you worship. Think our amendments are in danger? You sound like those conspiracy theorists on late night radio. What's to worry about. All the safeguards are in place. That is why we have the Bill of Rights. Like the right to health care etc.. The courts will protect us.

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#29 Nov 30, 2012
Willothewisp wrote:
<quoted text>
That is why we have the First Amendment. It stops governments from telling you if, when and where you worship. Think our amendments are in danger? You sound like those conspiracy theorists on late night radio. What's to worry about. All the safeguards are in place. That is why we have the Bill of Rights. Like the right to health care etc.. The courts will protect us.
LOL, so many here think I am one of those who listen to Rush or any of those other one sided talk show fools, don't listen to any of them nor am I a Tea Party believer or a conspiracy theorist.

In a way if I worry it is how Obama will and has used "executive privilege" to by-pass congress on a few things and his remarks he will do it to be able to by-pass 2nd amendment issues too but worst than that is his chance to stack the Supreme Court.

Time will tell just how much he tries to get away with and the reaction of the general public if he does such things.

Remember he did it to require 3 states to register long guns.

“Eys so hendsum!”

Since: Jun 09

Ol' Juarez

#30 Nov 30, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Churches are just individuals gathering together to worship...who have already been taxed...
Add to the fact this would really confuse the church state issue...
Besides many of the people in church are...at least the smaller churches are poor themselves and the church helps them out through the donations of those that happen to have money or supplies to share with those who need...
At least this is how many churches work...
WRONG! The individuals that attend churches are taxed, but the church itself is not taxed, it is tax exempt. BIG DIFFERENCE! Poor churches? Name me one church that doesn't have more money in its bank account than your or mine combined.

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#31 Nov 30, 2012
fmer505-1951 wrote:
<quoted text>WRONG! The individuals that attend churches are taxed, but the church itself is not taxed, it is tax exempt. BIG DIFFERENCE! Poor churches? Name me one church that doesn't have more money in its bank account than your or mine combined.
The church of Bluntly Spoken.

There you are so how about donations all !

“Each Thought Creates A Reality”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#32 Dec 1, 2012
Bluntly Spoken wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL, so many here think I am one of those who listen to Rush or any of those other one sided talk show fools, don't listen to any of them nor am I a Tea Party believer or a conspiracy theorist.
In a way if I worry it is how Obama will and has used "executive privilege" to by-pass congress on a few things and his remarks he will do it to be able to by-pass 2nd amendment issues too but worst than that is his chance to stack the Supreme Court.
Time will tell just how much he tries to get away with and the reaction of the general public if he does such things.
Remember he did it to require 3 states to register long guns.
No, from your responses it is obvious you don't listen to Rush or are a Teapartier...Just responded to your post. And the late night radio was mostly After Dark...the spooky stuff.
Another

Huntsville, AL

#33 Dec 1, 2012
Hagar wrote:
\
.
crackpot lie.
Hagar

Sterling Heights, MI

#34 Dec 1, 2012
Willothewisp wrote:
That's right. The GOP is going to cave because there is little difference in the end between either party. Get rid of churches or their tax breaks, the wealthy, mortgage deductions and then the deductibility of IRA's and retirement accounts. That is a lot of money waiting for the tax collector.
Anyone that earned or saved is better off than those that didn't and should not get an advantage because of unfair tax code regulations and laws. They earned it on the backs of the poor. You save, then you should lose. Better off? Then you can afford to help those who aren't. Simple. What is not to like?
The money you are talking about is already taxed, or will be in the case of "before tax" IRAs, and at 70+ you have to start withdrawing from the IRA so the govt. can get it's tax money. You sound like you don't know a lot about the tax structure for IRAs and savings accounts. Learn before you speak!
Hagar

Sterling Heights, MI

#35 Dec 1, 2012
Willothewisp wrote:
<quoted text>
That is why we have the First Amendment. It stops governments from telling you if, when and where you worship. Think our amendments are in danger? You sound like those conspiracy theorists on late night radio. What's to worry about. All the safeguards are in place. That is why we have the Bill of Rights. Like the right to health care etc.. The courts will protect us.
Do you really think the courts will protect the Bill of Rights? I have a bridge in Brooklyn (if it didn't get washed away) I'd like to sell you.
Hagar

Sterling Heights, MI

#36 Dec 1, 2012
We need two tax structures: Minimum 50% tax for those who voted for Obama to fund all his stimulus and entitlements and pay off the debt he caused (the European way), and 15% maximum tax for those who voted for someone else (the American way) so they don't have to pay for the ignorance of those who voted for Obama.

“Eys so hendsum!”

Since: Jun 09

Ol' Juarez

#37 Dec 1, 2012
Bluntly Spoken wrote:
<quoted text>
The church of Bluntly Spoken.
There you are so how about donations all !
Well Blunt, if you have a church what do you say to my being the bookie,er, bookkeeper. Let's see how much we can get them to donate, even split. Howsaboutit?
Hagar

Sterling Heights, MI

#38 Dec 1, 2012
fmer505-1951 wrote:
<quoted text>Well Blunt, if you have a church what do you say to my being the bookie,er, bookkeeper. Let's see how much we can get them to donate, even split. Howsaboutit?
If the donations are proportional to the value, get ready to shell out a lot of bucks.

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#39 Dec 2, 2012
fmer505-1951 wrote:
<quoted text>Well Blunt, if you have a church what do you say to my being the bookie,er, bookkeeper. Let's see how much we can get them to donate, even split. Howsaboutit?
Hmm, what percentage would you want ?

Sounds good but we have to figure out how to get the people to send money to a PO Box and trust us yet not want to attend the church of Bluntly Spoken....
good

Huntsville, AL

#40 Dec 2, 2012
Hagar wrote:
We need two tax structures:
.
lord, you are nuts. America won - you lost.

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