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another reader
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While, again, I understand the need to express your deeply held beliefs in your faith...the Fourth of Juy parade is not the correct venue. And as far as the issues with the Halloween parade and costumes? THAT's the POINT of the holiday, isn't it? If you don't want to see costumes...don't attend a costume-based parade. DUH!
People, the facts remain the same here. While our forefathers and mothers wanted religious freedom...they were searching for religious freedom to NOT have specific dieties forced upon them.
If memory serves, they burned witches for practicing, even in private, didn't they?? So much for religious freedom.
I'm not against faith! I'm simply against having it be thrust into the public forum as it was in the parade. You can follow whatever faith you choose, just do it within the churchs, sysnagogues, etc. or in the woods if that what floats your boat....not in an entertainment venue.
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somewhat sane
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If ignorance is bliss, you, Another Reader, must be one of the happiest people around...when you're not complaining about people trampling on your "freedom"!
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CuriousGeorge
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I'll bet the man in the yarmulke was thinking, "We should put a group together to march in this parade next year! It really makes sense to be able to celebrate our freedom of religion on Independence Day."
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The Necromancer
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another reader wrote: While, again, I understand the need to express your deeply held beliefs in your faith...the Fourth of Juy parade is not the correct venue. And as far as the issues with the Halloween parade and costumes? THAT's the POINT of the holiday, isn't it? If you don't want to see costumes...don't attend a costume-based parade. DUH!
People, the facts remain the same here. While our forefathers and mothers wanted religious freedom...they were searching for religious freedom to NOT have specific dieties forced upon them.
If memory serves, they burned witches for practicing, even in private, didn't they?? So much for religious freedom.
I'm not against faith! I'm simply against having it be thrust into the public forum as it was in the parade. You can follow whatever faith you choose, just do it within the churchs, sysnagogues, etc. or in the woods if that what floats your boat....not in an entertainment venue. The 4th of July parade is not strictly "entertainment" my friend. It is a celebration of FREEDOM. Seeing something in a parade, or hearing a song at a parade, or reading a t-shirt at that parade, is HARDLY having "specific deities forced upon" you. You're freedom to NOT worship, and the State's obligation to NOT write an "accepted doctrine" or "official state religion" into law, does NOT mean you never have to see some one else in a public forum that chooses to exercise their right to "free exercise there of". The State can neither sanction, nor PROHIBIT that freedom. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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another reader
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somewhat sane wrote: If ignorance is bliss, you, Another Reader, must be one of the happiest people around...when you're not complaining about people trampling on your "freedom"! Since this issue seems to have lit a fire under many readers...both pro AND con...I must not be the only one who feels "trampled upon" as you said. But, as always, I will rise above and not resort to name calling. Have a great day!
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CJG
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By the same standard that that letter writer to the Eagle opposes the religious group marching in the parade he should also oppose the right of the man to wear his yamulke in public - isn't that a public display of religion? The man in the yamulke may have been thinking "Thank God there are some other people here who feel comfortable displaying outward signs of their religion."
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CuriousGeorge
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another reader stated, "If you don't want to see costumes...don't attend a costume-based parade." It seems that an appropriate reply to this comment would be, "If you don't want to witness freedom of speech and freedom of religion expressed, you probably should not go to a parade that celebrates Independence Day. After all, this country guarantees these freedoms."
Secondly, another reader implied that "specific dieties" (sic) were being "forced upon" people who attend the parade. Let me ask you this: If popcorn is offered at the parade, is it being "forced upon" you? Of course not. If you don't want popcorn, you either ignore the vendor or you flat-out refuse it (Here's the tricky part, another reader, so read carefully.) If you don't want to deal with a particular unit in the parade, just ignore it, or flat-out refuse its message. Guess what? You have been guaranteed those freedoms. And what better day to celebrate it than Independence Day!
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CJG
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If these anti-religious types are so paranoid and insecure in their non-religious fervor that they are afraid they might be converted by some kids marching in red tee-shirts, aren't they testifying to the power of religion? Maybe they should re-examine their apostasy? If you don't like it just turn the other way just like most religious people do when they see things in public that offend them.
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Berkshire Bob
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The more I read about the Fourth of July Pittsfield Parade, the more I wish i had been the TV Announcer.
I have to admit that the bright flaming Red Shirts looked more like a Polish Alliance (The Polish Flag is Red and White) or a Communist May Day actiivity, I can't find anything offensive.
Time Marches on..and this too shall pass.
There is a heck of lot more important issues to address in our life.
BBB
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newsketeer
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"to accomplish what God wants us to accomplish in the city," said Joseph Nieves.
Anybody can say "God wants this," or "God wants that." People are always justifying their actions with the "God imperative." God told Bush to attack Afghanistan, but God told the Taliban to attack the Americans. I call this God Rape.
As long as you don't inflict your "what God wants" on the rest of us, you're at liberty to practice your beliefs.
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newsketeer
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CJG wrote: If these anti-religious types are so paranoid and insecure in their non-religious fervor that they are afraid they might be converted by some kids marching in red tee-shirts, aren't they testifying to the power of religion? Maybe they should re-examine their apostasy? If you don't like it just turn the other way just like most religious people do when they see things in public that offend them. I laugh when these religious people twist people's words to mean "anti-religion." Two can play at this person's game: "If these religious types are so paranoid and insecure in their religious fervor that they are afraid they might be converted by some parade goers wearing yarmulkes and sari, aren't they testifying to the weakness of their belief?" In fact, not one of the letter writers made an issue of anti-religion. Indeed, the first of them respected the plurality of religions, which is precisely what the preachy types can't stand. Admit it, evangelicals, you want everybody to worship your way or no way, am I right? You don't believe in freedom of religion at all. In fact, I would call Evangelical Christianity fascist. The issue is, are we each free to believe according to our own conscience? I think you'll find that advocates for separation of religion from public money overwhelmingly say "yes," while those who think their America is really a Christian nation are the most intolerant of religious freedom for everybody else but themselves. "I am approached with the most opposite opinions and advice, and that by religious men, who are equally certain that they represent the Divine will. I am sure that either the one or the other is mistaken in that belief, and perhaps in some respects both." - Abraham Lincoln
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Legal 1
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Though I don't like having another's beliefs thrust at me, I don't see the harm. This is, at least for the time being, still a free country. They could be doing far worse things with their lives.
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Common Sense
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If the question is where does religion fit in, I think I know the answer...CHURCH!
Do I win any kind of prize? A red t-shirt? My very own copy of "My god is an awesome god?"
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From Pittsfield
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1) Good for them for getting their #$%$ together and pulling this off.
2) Bad for the Parade Committee for not seeing this come together earlier and trying to limit it (it seems foolish to limit it in the future).
3) Bad for the Parade Committee for not opening this offer to march to all religious sectors....and if they did, bad for the ones who did not march.
4) Bad for the Parade Committee for not having enough people to cover all these posts - which allowed the "red shirts" to be scattered in the parade.
5) Bad for the marchers - if they did preach (hard to figure out from the article if there was preaching involved). Respect the rules.
It's a parade - it should be fun to be there to represent your organization - but it is not the time to recruit.
Remember the word....Freedom.
(FYI - I'm not part of any religious organization - but I respect the right to represent your causes).
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Parade Goer
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People it's a parade. Move on....
Their not handing out flyers trying to recruit you. Apparently they do not have to advertise..We are all doing it for them with all of the comments that keep coming.
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Concerned
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I hate the way the Berkshire Eagle has worded the opinion question today. Instead of asking do you think religious groups should be allowed to march in the parade, they put a nasty spin on it by asking whether you think religious groups should be allowed to preach in the parade. They make it sound negative right from the get go which shows where the Berkshire Eagle's head is at. In case the Berkshire Eagle doesn't know what preaching is I will have to inform that. Preaching is letting everybody know the word of whomever you are praying to. It involves preaching gospel. There was no preaching going on at the parade. Just marching and showing enthusiasm. Are people so paranoid that they think that can be converted simply by watching this display? So when people are answering the question they should substitute the word "marching" for "preaching".
I think the real reason the Berkshire Eagle is uncomfortable with religion and many others on this board as well is because of the gay rights issue. As we all know, the Berkshire Eagle very strongly supports gay rights including gay marriage and it is for this reason that I think the writers at the Berkshire Eagle are uncomfortable with enthusiastic displays of religion particularly from Christians. Gay rights and Christianity do not make for happy bedfellows. So the more that public displays of religion, particularly Christianity (although to keep it fair they have to include all religions) can be kept from public view the better for supporters of gay rights.
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Realist Surrealist
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I hear the Parade Committee will let not only the the Klan in next year, but a bunch of white power skinheads, Quakers, Amish, a few polygamists and some Muslim extremists!
That will be a parade I'd pay to see!
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hvt
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newsketeer, Are you not doing the same thing that you accuse these people of doing? Seeing how you feel you were afflicted by these people who chose to honor Jesus Christ, you, being a god unto yourself, are now trying to inflict your doctrine. Instead of “what God wants”, as stated by Joseph Nieves, you now insist that all conform to “what I (newsketeer) want.” Just a wild guess on my part, but I don’t think that will happen. This whole issue can be summed up as follows: Political Correctness Extreme Syndrome. newsketeer wrote: "to accomplish what God wants us to accomplish in the city," said Joseph Nieves.
Anybody can say "God wants this," or "God wants that." People are always justifying their actions with the "God imperative." God told Bush to attack Afghanistan, but God told the Taliban to attack the Americans. I call this God Rape.
As long as you don't inflict your "what God wants" on the rest of us, you're at liberty to practice your beliefs.
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DCooper
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Where was the Athiest marching group? Was the ACLU otherwise engaged? Were there any dogs in the parade? Wasn't anyone worried that their salive might offend some particular group? And how about those firemen? Where was the fireperson float? The whole thing sounds like a bunch of global warming to me.
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Grateful Resident
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It's moving to see people publicly stand for their beliefs. Religion is not just for church on Sunday or synagogue on Saturday morning. It is how we live all day every day. And if there were diverse groups in our 4th of July parade I can't think of a better way to celebrate freedom.
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