Who do you support for Governor in Oh...
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#32330 Aug 2, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, there were intentional, drug induced abortions in Biblical times.
"The Bible never specifically mentions abortion. This is significant, because herbal abortifacients--most notably pennyroyal and silphium--were in common use at the time that the New Testament was written. Jesus, Paul, and the other major figures of the New Testament were surrounded by cultures that practiced abortion, but no specific condemnation of the practice can be found in the Bible."
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/abortion/f/b...
<quoted text>
But there are places in the Bible where a distinction between the death of a fetus and the death of an individual is made quite clear.
Exodus 21:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
What this means is that if two men are fighting and accidentally hit a woman, causing her to miscarry, they will be fined. However, if the mother dies, the penalty is death. The lesson from this is that death of a fetus is not murder (which is punishable by death), but more similar to losing property (which is punished by a fine.)
Look up the passages about blood on their skirts - those are about abortion.

God is about life and having children - they are supposed to be a blessing.
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#32331 Aug 2, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
What this means is that if two men are fighting and accidentally hit a woman, causing her to miscarry, they will be fined. However, if the mother dies, the penalty is death. The lesson from this is that death of a fetus is not murder (which is punishable by death), but more similar to losing property (which is punished by a fine.)
It says unintentional death to a fetus, not intentional. As to the earlier version of the Morning After pill, I found this:

At About.com , Tom Head makes the case for ambiguity in What does the Bible say about abortion? What Head adds to the argument is this.

The Bible never specifically mentions abortion. This is significant, because herbal abortifacients–most notably pennyroyal and silphium–were in common use at the time that the New Testament was written. Jesus, Paul, and the other major figures of the New Testament were surrounded by cultures that practiced abortion, but no specific condemnation of the practice can be found in the Bible.

In an era when most women married early and enhanced their status by having a child, why would it have been common to have an abortion? What exactly would have constituted common use of an abortifacient? I doubt Head has the slightest idea. Anyway, he does not say, and the herbs he mentions probably were not used as he suggests.

According to this NIH link pennyroyal is unsafe. That is, it would have been dangerous to use.

Wikipedia (here) and Sylphium Life Sciences (here) say silphium is either extinct or we just don’t know what ancient herbalists called silphium is anymore.

Therefore, how many of the ancients used either pennyroyal or silphium as abortifacients and how effective they may have been is purely speculative.

http://citizentom.com/2012/11/24/what-does-th...
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#32332 Aug 2, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
At About.com , Tom Head makes the case for ambiguity in What does the Bible say about abortion?

In an era when most women married early and enhanced their status by having a child, why would it have been common to have an abortion? What exactly would have constituted common use of an abortifacient? I doubt Head has the slightest idea.
I always like it when someone attacks with questions, rather than statements. It's usually a tell that they are faking it.

This anonymous fellow can't understand how abortifacients could be of interest to women, because babies are always GOOD and enhance a woman's status.

Unless your husband has been away at war for a year.

Or you aren't married at all, and just had some brief fun with the lower caste gardener.

Or you were raped by your brother.

Just 3 ideas for Mr. Questions to consider, in his quest to understand why a woman would ever desire an abortion.
ino

Waverly, OH

#32333 Aug 2, 2014
FREE BC for women now No reason to be prego unless you want to be.
d pantz

Detroit, MI

#32334 Aug 3, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> And they voted for Obama with their Koran's ??
Again, what is your pointless point?
Right? All those Catholics voted with their Korans? I swear some people are just programmed to believe this crap. Guess what! Obana won. He got a the most votes it pretty much all demographics! Democrats.... you own the nascar voter too!
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#32335 Aug 3, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
I always like it when someone attacks with questions, rather than statements. It's usually a tell that they are faking it.
This anonymous fellow can't understand how abortifacients could be of interest to women, because babies are always GOOD and enhance a woman's status.
Unless your husband has been away at war for a year.
Or you aren't married at all, and just had some brief fun with the lower caste gardener.
Or you were raped by your brother.
Just 3 ideas for Mr. Questions to consider, in his quest to understand why a woman would ever desire an abortion.
The article and links beg the question if these herbal remedies even worked and if they were safe. I would say those are pretty good questions, especially given the fact the bible doesn't mention abortion or these magic potions as if they were non-existant.

I'm no Bible guy as you probably are not either. But if we could honestly answer the question, do you think God or Jesus would approve of any kind of abortion either then or now?

Also, why do most if not all religions consider abortion murder? Okay, we are no biblical scholars, but I would think the people who lead these religions are.
woo-boy

Waverly, OH

#32336 Aug 3, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The article and links beg the question if these herbal remedies even worked and if they were safe. I would say those are pretty good questions, especially given the fact the bible doesn't mention abortion or these magic potions as if they were non-existant.
I'm no Bible guy as you probably are not either. But if we could honestly answer the question, do you think God or Jesus would approve of any kind of abortion either then or now?
Also, why do most if not all religions consider abortion murder? Okay, we are no biblical scholars, but I would think the people who lead these religions are.
Religion's are human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
Canton

Canton, OH

#32337 Aug 3, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> Automobiles, trains, asprin, ice water, computers & sewing machines etc aren't mentioned in the bible either, so what the heck is your sad non-important point?? Troll
It also doesn't mention anything about turning the old and feeble into food for cattle.
Canton

Canton, OH

#32338 Aug 3, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I think his point is that since there were no such thing as abortion in biblical times, it's not considered a sin. He fails to realize that murder is a sin and abortions are considered murder by most if not all religious organizations.
No, my point is, since abortion and birth control are not mentioned in the Bible, then either Hobby Lobby is making up it's own religion or they are directly interpreting the intentions of an unseen and unproven god to push forward their corporate agenda. A purely corporate agenda which anyone can clearly see by the fact that they provided abortions and birth control in their health insurance plans for years before The Affordable Healthcare Act.

Enjoy eating those facts, although drooling clowns like Pops are FACTos Intollerant.
Canton

Canton, OH

#32339 Aug 3, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds more like a red-herring being dragged across the path to get the democratic dogs barking;-) Knowing them as I do, they stoop lower than any human could to derail people from what needs to be addressed.
Democratic ticket?
No way after the the lie we were sold in the last couple of elections. I think only fools would vote democratic. Where are the Libertarians? or anyone who would have the courage to not resign on the emergency powers act that has been in place since 1933 that derailed our Constitutional government and rights.
Is Ohio just full of numbskulls in the cities here? Just sayin'....
Geee...someone from Louisville Ohio that doesn't like our black president? How many blacks live in Louisville? Any? Oh, and it turns out the "Libertarians" are really just right wing Christian Conservative Republicans trying to hide their tracks from voting for American disaster GW Bush twice. Just like ith your claims that you aren't a bunch or racists, Americans aren't fooled by that one either. Only has been Lawrence Welk fans are buying it.
Canton

Canton, OH

#32340 Aug 3, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The article and links beg the question if these herbal remedies even worked and if they were safe. I would say those are pretty good questions, especially given the fact the bible doesn't mention abortion or these magic potions as if they were non-existant.
I'm no Bible guy as you probably are not either. But if we could honestly answer the question, do you think God or Jesus would approve of any kind of abortion either then or now?
Also, why do most if not all religions consider abortion murder? Okay, we are no biblical scholars, but I would think the people who lead these religions are.
If only Jesus ever existed, then you'd really have a point. Wonder why the guy who made dead people get up and walk around isn't documented outside of the Bible? Let me know if you want to know what Caesar ate for breakfast, what time he ate it and on what date he was eating it and who joined him that day for breakfast. He neat. Jesus disappeared from the Bible for 30 years. Wonder what he was up to during that time? I'm guessing he was hanging out with Santa Claus and bigfoot. I think the fact that you claim to not be religious and then talk about Jesus like he was a proven historical figure speaks volumes.
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#32341 Aug 3, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
No, my point is, since abortion and birth control are not mentioned in the Bible, then either Hobby Lobby is making up it's own religion or they are directly interpreting the intentions of an unseen and unproven god to push forward their corporate agenda. A purely corporate agenda which anyone can clearly see by the fact that they provided abortions and birth control in their health insurance plans for years before The Affordable Healthcare Act.
Enjoy eating those facts, although drooling clowns like Pops are FACTos Intollerant.
Just because something is not covered in the Bible doesn't mean it's not against their religion.

A religion is a system of beliefs. Christian religions believe that Jesus is our savior while the Jews believe he is not. Jesus is part of the Bible. The Catholic religion has made up their own list of sins that's not covered in the Bible.

The Bible doesn't have to say abortions are a sin for a religion to believe it is. Murder is a sin and yes, outlined in the Holy Bible. If religions believe that abortion is murder, then it's murder within their creed.

I don't think that having electricity in my home is a sin nor is driving my car, but go out to Middlefield Ohio and see all the people in powerless houses riding up and down the street in their horse and buggy that believes what we do is a sin.
d pantz

Toledo, OH

#32342 Aug 3, 2014
Actuall its evident that the municipal water supply in Canton contains an unusually high amount of fluoride and possibly meth.
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
Geee...someone from Louisville Ohio that doesn't like our black presidentYeT? How many blacks live in Louisville? Any? Oh, and it turns out the "Libertarians" are really just right wing Christian Conservative Republicans trying to hide their tracks from voting for American disaster GW Bush twice. Just like ith your claims that you aren't a bunch or racists, Americans aren't fooled by that one either. Only has been Lawrence Welk fans are buying it.
d pantz

Toledo, OH

#32343 Aug 3, 2014
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>Religion's are human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
and you're free to think that. Most religious people I know arent terrified or enslaved. They're happy and Im fine with it. Some of them are so up their own ass about their beliefs that they insist stereotyping all other
religions or secularists unfairly. kinda like you do.
Big organized anything can be corrupt. You don't have a point, you have a half truth.
Canton

Canton, OH

#32345 Aug 3, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because something is not covered in the Bible doesn't mean it's not against their religion.
A religion is a system of beliefs. Christian religions believe that Jesus is our savior while the Jews believe he is not. Jesus is part of the Bible. The Catholic religion has made up their own list of sins that's not covered in the Bible.
The Bible doesn't have to say abortions are a sin for a religion to believe it is. Murder is a sin and yes, outlined in the Holy Bible. If religions believe that abortion is murder, then it's murder within their creed.
I don't think that having electricity in my home is a sin nor is driving my car, but go out to Middlefield Ohio and see all the people in powerless houses riding up and down the street in their horse and buggy that believes what we do is a sin.
Would you say that following passages in the Bible directly attributed to being said by Jesus Christ is something that defines CHRISTians?

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Jesus Christ
Canton

Canton, OH

#32346 Aug 3, 2014
So let's see. Freedom of religion...as long as it's Christianity. Christianity is an obvious putty like religion that can be interpreted in any way and can be cherry picked in any fashion to suit any agenda. THAT is the power the Supreme Court really gave to corporations.

I think that a past history of following the practices of said religion (Christianity is the only choice by the way) should be a requirement for these corporations. No work on the Sabbath for you. Hope none of the CEOs ate shellfish. Certainly hope the corporation has strictly adhered to the direct socialist quotes of Jesus Christ when it comes time to count the money. Render unto Caesar and all that.

I pray that this obvious right wing ploy blows up in your Tea Bagging faces. I hope your Grandchildren are someday forced to praise Allah on their lunch breaks. Company mandated.
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#32347 Aug 3, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you say that following passages in the Bible directly attributed to being said by Jesus Christ is something that defines CHRISTians?
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Jesus Christ
Religions pick and choose what they wish to believe out of the Bible. That's what distinguishes one religion from another. No religion (to my knowledge) believes or follows everything in the Bible.

Even the religions that believe in the same passages define the meanings behind those passages in different ways. For instance, the passage you posted does have a meaning, but it's not what you think. God doesn't have any problem with wealthy people. The actual meaning behind the passage you wrote is about people who chose money over their God, not that money is evil.

You can't tell people of any religion that abortion isn't murder no more than they can tell you man isn't causing climate change. People have the right to believe whatever it is they want to believe. You can debate them of course, but you can't tell them they can't believe what they believe because you disagree with it.
d pantz

Toledo, OH

#32348 Aug 3, 2014
Canton wrote:
So let's see. Freedom of religion...as long as it's Christianity.........
only you have said this.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#32349 Aug 3, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The article and links beg the question if these herbal remedies even worked and if they were safe. I would say those are pretty good questions, especially given the fact the bible doesn't mention abortion or these magic potions as if they were non-existant.
I'm no Bible guy as you probably are not either. But if we could honestly answer the question, do you think God or Jesus would approve of any kind of abortion either then or now?
Also, why do most if not all religions consider abortion murder? Okay, we are no biblical scholars, but I would think the people who lead these religions are.
You are misusing the phrase "begs the question" as a fancy way to say "asks the question." That's not what it means. "Begs the question" is a logical fallacy, where one assumes the very conclusion they are trying to prove.

When someone trying to prove a point does not offer evidence, but instead asks pointed questions that assumes the point they are trying to make, they are employing this fallacy.(It is also a lazy way to argue, because you don't have to actually support your argument with evidence.)

When someone actually makes a statement, it can be challenged with facts. When you say "given the fact the bible doesn't mention abortion or these magic potions as if they were non-existant", it is easy for me to offer evidence that abortifacients DID exist in Biblical times.

"Abortion was recorded in 1550 B.C.E. in Egypt, recorded in what is called the Ebers Papyrus (note 2) and in ancient China about 500 B.C.E. as well (note 3). In China, folklore dates the use of mercury to induce abortions to about 5,000 years ago (note 4). Of course, mercury is extremely toxic.

Hippocrates also offered abortion to his patients despite being opposed to pessaries and potions which he considered too dangerous."

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/abortion/a/...

The fact that abortifacients did exist, but are not mentioned in the Bible suggests that our prohibitions against abortion came about later. In this country, laws against abortion did not arise until the 1800s. Before that, English common law forbid abortions only after "the quickening" (the stage of pregnancy when fetal movements are detected.)

Here's a good, short, easy to read, summary of the history of abortion:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/legal/hi...
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm no Bible guy as you probably are not either.
Unlike you, I am a reader. I read many things, including the Bible, so, in that sense, I am a "Bible guy." That doesn't suggest that I believe all that I read there. I also read the Greek, Roman, and Norse myths, and can also discuss the content of those stories, even without believing them to be literal fact. I am very interested in the history of religions.
d pantz

Toledo, OH

#32350 Aug 3, 2014
so lets get this straight. Corporations can screw people out of healthcare by offering only part time positions and thats okay but we need to shit our pants because a church doesnt want to cover an employee's abortion? While I dont really agree with either I still feel like one priority should be more important here and the other is just a distraction from the root of the problems we have with the corporate motto

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