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Since: Jun 09

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#1
Dec 18, 2012
 

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This thread is not intended to disrespect or dishonor the people killed in Newtown. But there are several issues that need to be addressed.
The taking of an innocent life under any circumstance is appalling. However in the grand scheme of things does it really matter how these people where murdered? Would it have been any less appalling if these children were murdered by a .22 caliber rifle instead of an AR15? Stabbed to death with a knife? Or maybe hacked to death with a machete? Death is death no matter how you get there. The focus should be why they were murdered not how. How is a moot point.

Since: Jun 09

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#2
Dec 18, 2012
 

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BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.

The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located.

The attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, said the officer, who declined to give her name, as is customary among Chinese civil servants.

A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years. He said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted, although two badly injured children had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside the county.

A doctor at Guangshan's hospital of traditional Chinese medicine said that seven students had been admitted, but that none were seriously injured.

Neither the hospital administrator nor the doctor would give his name.

It was not clear how old the injured children were, but Chinese primary school pupils are generally 6-11 years old.

A notice posted on the Guangshan county government's website confirmed the number of injured and said an emergency response team had been set up to investigate the attacks.

No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.

Since: Feb 12

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#3
Dec 18, 2012
 

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It does not matter to the liberals Fleet. They are a pathetic bunch of individuals that are “not letting a good crisis go to waste” in the wake of this tragedy. They want to blame one thing for this horrific event and not consider the fact that our social and moral values have eroded in this country via violent television, video games and throwing god out of our society.

Since: May 11

Reality, USA

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#4
Dec 18, 2012
 

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Wite_Out wrote:
It does not matter to the liberals Fleet. They are a pathetic bunch of individuals that are “not letting a good crisis go to waste” in the wake of this tragedy. They want to blame one thing for this horrific event and not consider the fact that our social and moral values have eroded in this country via violent television, video games and throwing god out of our society.
TV, video games and no god huh?

Oh really?

Explain Bath Twp, Michigan, in 1926 then...go ahead and google it.

In 1926 there was no TV, no video games, no "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance either but you can be sure that your "god" was in the classroom via daily prayer and holiday tributes to "him". And still a tragedy occurred.

I recommend you and others stop trying to make sense out of a senseless act of violence.

Since: Feb 12

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#5
Dec 18, 2012
 

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I am more than aware of that atrocity and you make a good point. What you cannot dispute is that the frequency of this type of crime has increased in the last thirty years.

Since: May 11

Reality, USA

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#6
Dec 18, 2012
 

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Wite_Out wrote:
I am more than aware of that atrocity and you make a good point. What you cannot dispute is that the frequency of this type of crime has increased in the last thirty years.
You are correct and I along with virtually the rest of America struggle to try and think of answers or explanations as to why this occurred and how it can be prevented.

Personally I do not think something of this nature cannot be prevented from ocurring again...sad to say. Outlawing firearms is not the answer nor is arming teachers and school administrators. Having armed/unarmed security is normal for many schools but still will most likely not stop a dedicated individual such as the one in CT who strongly appears to have had this planned and(being a former student) was familiar with the building layout.

I do not have the answers but I do think that stronger control over firearms, not just assault style weapons, needs to occur. And no, I am not a raging liberal who hugs trees and wants all firearms banned. I carry(legally) and shoot on a regular basis and, if I am feeling a bit froggy, I think jaywalking should be a capital punishment offense(humor).
Zen Dude

Edison, OH

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#7
Dec 18, 2012
 

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People have been killing people on this planet since Cain slew Able. They've done it with rocks, spears, knives, bombs, drones etc.
This is not something new.
One only has to look at the Holocaust to see how cruel mankind can be to one another.

There is one reality, if those guns were not available, this shooting would not have occurred . We do not need assault weapons in this country. How many bullets do you need to take down a deer or to stop an intruder?

I'm not going to argue this point on this forum, I've seen where that leads, but these are my beliefs and convictions.
I have had enough

Columbus, OH

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#9
Dec 18, 2012
 

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2 Timothy 3:1-9 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God--having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth--men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
newtown skeptic

Los Angeles, CA

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#10
Dec 18, 2012
 

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It's all a setup for future strict gun control.You've all been duped. I'm tired of hearing the story change every day.First it was only handguns.Day later bushmaster did all the killing.Now they're saying that bushmaster was in the trunk of the car.Sounds fishy. You be the judge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Zen Dude

Edison, OH

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#11
Dec 18, 2012
 

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newtown skeptic wrote:
It's all a setup for future strict gun control.You've all been duped. I'm tired of hearing the story change every day.First it was only handguns.Day later bushmaster did all the killing.Now they're saying that bushmaster was in the trunk of the car.Sounds fishy. You be the judge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Only crazy people listen to other crazy people and take them seriously.

Since: Nov 12

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#12
Dec 18, 2012
 

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Zen Dude wrote:
People have been killing people on this planet since Cain slew Able. They've done it with rocks, spears, knives, bombs, drones etc.
This is not something new.
One only has to look at the Holocaust to see how cruel mankind can be to one another.
There is one reality, if those guns were not available, this shooting would not have occurred . We do not need assault weapons in this country. How many bullets do you need to take down a deer or to stop an intruder?
I'm not going to argue this point on this forum, I've seen where that leads, but these are my beliefs and convictions.
Shooting powerful weapons seems to be like a drug for some people.
Seemingly it was for the Lanza mother and son. She had told someone that she was pleased that Adam seemed to be taking an interest in shooting. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/1...
Sometimes that which we love, can hurt us immeasurably, he shot his mother 4 times in the face. I don't wish to argue gun and ammunition legislation, for some it would be like getting between an addict and his/their fix.

Since: Apr 12

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#13
Dec 18, 2012
 

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USN Atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct and I along with virtually the rest of America struggle to try and think of answers or explanations as to why this occurred and how it can be prevented.
Personally I do not think something of this nature cannot be prevented from ocurring again...sad to say. Outlawing firearms is not the answer nor is arming teachers and school administrators. Having armed/unarmed security is normal for many schools but still will most likely not stop a dedicated individual such as the one in CT who strongly appears to have had this planned and(being a former student) was familiar with the building layout.
I do not have the answers but I do think that stronger control over firearms, not just assault style weapons, needs to occur. And no, I am not a raging liberal who hugs trees and wants all firearms banned. I carry(legally) and shoot on a regular basis and, if I am feeling a bit froggy, I think jaywalking should be a capital punishment offense(humor).
I feel like I should admit that I have kind of underestimated you. Maybe because I usually only see you responding to our resident homophobe.

That was a good post, IMHO. It makes a lot of sense and I am glad to see that while you advocate stronger gun control you are also not calling for a ban. I tend to feel that way myself.
Higher Primate

Urbana, OH

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#14
Dec 18, 2012
 

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newtown skeptic wrote:
Day later bushmaster did all the killing.Now they're saying that bushmaster was in the trunk of the car.
I can't believe he got off that many rounds with a Bushmaster (XM-15), they are junk!!! It's a very inaccurate gun that is pron to jamming. I would bet anything it comes out that he used the hand guns to do damage.

Since: Jun 09

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#15
Dec 18, 2012
 

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Calling for a ban of firearms in America would generate more problems than the federal government could handle.
Calling a AR-15 an assault weapon is like calling a deer rifle with scope a sniper rifle. The round the AR-15 is by far the most powerful round available on the market. Actually there are handgun rounds immensely more powerful than a 5.56 or .223 cal round. The AK47 or the SKS fires a much more devastating round. 7.62X39.(A .30 cal round.)
That sick SOB that shot up that school could have achieved the same effect by using a Ruger 10-22. And by the way the AR15 fires the 5.56 or .223 round which is nothing more than a high powered .22 caliber bullet.
My apologies to the Ruger Company. I used Ruger as an example. Any .22 caliber semiautomatic rifle could have achieved the same effect as the AR15. I enjoy the Ruger 10-22 rifle so naturally is used it in my example.
This also brings me to the next over exaggeration by the liberal media. The AR15 that is bought by and sold to the public are not automatic weapons.
Definitions:
Automatic weapon: A firearm that will fire continually with while holding the trigger down. AKA military weapon.
Semiautomatic weapon: A firearm that fires once with each pull of the trigger. AKA civilian rifle.
Assault Weapon = Automatic Fire
Sporting Rifle= Semiautomatic Fire.

Since: Jun 09

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#16
Dec 18, 2012
 

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Higher Primate wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't believe he got off that many rounds with a Bushmaster (XM-15), they are junk!!! It's a very inaccurate gun that is pron to jamming. I would bet anything it comes out that he used the hand guns to do damage.
Oh! It was a Bushmaster XM-15? And not the Colt AR 15? Again this shows that vast majority of the media covering this story has no clue what they are talking about.

Since: Oct 10

Dayton, OH

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#17
Dec 18, 2012
 
I heard a brief review of the assault weapons ban that Sen Feinstein was going to introduce. According to her legislation, any pre existing guns owned would be grandfathered in. There are estimates of something like 200 million guns already in existence. According to a study by UC/Berkley, hardly a conservative bastion, things changed little when the previous assault weapons ban as declared unconstitutional. I'm just very skeptical that any new ban would accomplish much.

Even mental health wouldn't have predictably caught someone like this shooter. They say he may have had Asperger Syndrome. In listening to a mental health professional comment on that, he indicates folks with this are seldom violent and more often than not they would lean the other way.

No easy answers..
Zen Dude

Edison, OH

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#18
Dec 18, 2012
 
Fleetcaptain wrote:
<quoted text>Oh! It was a Bushmaster XM-15? And not the Colt AR 15? Again this shows that vast majority of the media covering this story has no clue what they are talking about.
Bushmaster M4 Profile 14.5" barrel (originally designed to accept the military M203 grenade launcher) with permanently attached phantom flash suppressor for a total barrel length of just over 16". Hard chrome-lined in both bore and chamber for long life and ease of cleaning. Six position telescoping buttstock is fitted when retracted, carbine length decreases by 4 inches for convenient handling and storage. Upper receiver is in original A1 configuration with dual flip aperture 300-800 meter rear sight (windage adjustable). Front sight is A2 square post (elevation adjustable). Shipped in a lockable hard case with operators safety manual 30 round magazine, orange safety block and black web sling. One year Bushmaster warranty.

Specifications and features:
Bushmaster XM-15E2S semi automatic carbine
.223 Remington/5.56 NATO
14.5" M4 chrome-lined barrel with permanently attached phantom flash suppressor
1:9" twist with 6 grooves & lands
30 round magazine
A2 front sight base
A1 upper receiver with fixed carry handle and rear sight
7075 T6 aircraft-grade aluminum upper & lower receivers
Manganese phosphate-coated
Hard-anodized mil-spec finish
Two-piece, plastic handguards
Black M4 collapsible buttstock
Accepts all M16 and AR-15 magazines
34.5" overall length
Zen Dude

Edison, OH

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#19
Dec 18, 2012
 

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This story as many stories was not reported accurately, that is because these stories are always chaotic in the beginning and it takes a few days for the correct information to surface.

Since: Feb 12

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#20
Dec 18, 2012
 
My Bushmaster has never jammed and I have shot thousands of rounds through it.
Old Red

Bellefontaine, OH

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#21
Dec 18, 2012
 

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Wite_Out wrote:
My Bushmaster has never jammed and I have shot thousands of rounds through it.
My first AR style gun was the Bushmaster XM, I didn't keep it long. It's really a cheap knock off of the Armilite AR15, but if you can't afford a 2k gun the S&W MP15 or Colt SP15 are Much better than the XM. But yeah, I doubt a XM15 was used also.

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