michigan labor unions are whinning bi...

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#22 Dec 10, 2012
kama sutra 69 wrote:
<quoted text> That's a nice opinion but you're wrong.
I am glad you think it's a nice opinion.

Eighty years ago, or more, unions provided workers with much needed rights. Especially coal miners and others who were subjected to horrible working conditions. And thanks to them we now have very strict labor laws and the option to sue an employer for any violation of such.

Thus my claim that they have served their purpose and outlived their usefulness.

The only purpose they serve today is to line pockets.

Would you care to explain why I am wrong?

Since: Oct 10

Loveland, OH

#23 Dec 10, 2012
Want to know why people think of unions as they do?

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/12/10/chrysler-f...

Since: Oct 10

Loveland, OH

#24 Dec 10, 2012
Ironbutterfly wrote:
<quoted text>
This kinda sounds like your partys stance on abortion.
And your second paragraph was just...well...retarded.
There's a difference between life and unions Iron...if your not quite sure what that is, check out your new grandchild

“The US founders were Deists”

Since: May 09

Any Town USA

#25 Dec 10, 2012
Ethel K wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad you think it's a nice opinion.
Eighty years ago, or more, unions provided workers with much needed rights. Especially coal miners and others who were subjected to horrible working conditions. And thanks to them we now have very strict labor laws and the option to sue an employer for any violation of such.
Thus my claim that they have served their purpose and outlived their usefulness.
The only purpose they serve today is to line pockets.
Would you care to explain why I am wrong?
Unions are still a viable solution in the workforce. They fight for workers rights, higher wages and benefits . If we didn't have a UAW do you really think Honda wages would be as competitive?
Corporations rarely do the right thing. Take Walmart, while one of their main competitors Costco is owned by a benevolent man who takes a modest salary for a CEO and provides a decent wage for his employees, Walmart is owned by the richest family in America who pay their employees very little with little or no benefits. Costco is a rare example of a corporation doing the right thing.

Unions are like a fairness gauge, they represent, teachers,firefighters,police construction workers and auto workers etc.
Back in the 60's and 70's the mob had their fingers all over the unions, that changed and unions became less corrupt but to this day still carry that dirty image from the past.

I think unions of today are pretty honest and they are not out to line their pockets as you say.
This thing in Michigan is all political. The GOP see union busting as a way to cut off support to the Democrats. Hell they even admit it.

“The US founders were Deists”

Since: May 09

Any Town USA

#26 Dec 10, 2012
thud333 wrote:
Want to know why people think of unions as they do?
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/12/10/chrysler-f...
It always comes from Fox News doesn't it?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#27 Dec 10, 2012
kama sutra 69 wrote:
<quoted text> Unions are still a viable solution in the workforce. They fight for workers rights, higher wages and benefits . If we didn't have a UAW do you really think Honda wages would be as competitive?
Corporations rarely do the right thing. Take Walmart, while one of their main competitors Costco is owned by a benevolent man who takes a modest salary for a CEO and provides a decent wage for his employees, Walmart is owned by the richest family in America who pay their employees very little with little or no benefits. Costco is a rare example of a corporation doing the right thing.
Unions are like a fairness gauge, they represent, teachers,firefighters,police construction workers and auto workers etc.
Back in the 60's and 70's the mob had their fingers all over the unions, that changed and unions became less corrupt but to this day still carry that dirty image from the past.
I think unions of today are pretty honest and they are not out to line their pockets as you say.
This thing in Michigan is all political. The GOP see union busting as a way to cut off support to the Democrats. Hell they even admit it.
Honda wages? The reason Honda wages are what they are is BECAUSE the UAW didn't get a foot in that door.

Costco? Yes, you may be correct about their employees being better treated versus Wal-Mart's but that has nothing to do with unions. Only roughly 14% of Costco employees are union. Those running the corporation are simply more benevolent than Sam Walton's beneficiaries. Simple as that. And possibly a whole lot more business savvy. Given time, and if they wanted to make the effort, they could destroy Wal-Mart, in my opinion. But I digress....that has nothing to do with the union influence.

You are correct about unions being a fairness gauge. But that gauge was established years ago. It's in place. Like any fairness we have fought for in this country. Suffrage, equal rights, etc.

Do you think there is still a need for the "women's movement"?

No. It served it's purpose and now there is no need for it.

Ditto for the unions. See what I mean?

“The US founders were Deists”

Since: May 09

Any Town USA

#28 Dec 10, 2012
Ethel K wrote:
<quoted text>
Honda wages? The reason Honda wages are what they are is BECAUSE the UAW didn't get a foot in that door.
Costco? Yes, you may be correct about their employees being better treated versus Wal-Mart's but that has nothing to do with unions. Only roughly 14% of Costco employees are union. Those running the corporation are simply more benevolent than Sam Walton's beneficiaries. Simple as that. And possibly a whole lot more business savvy. Given time, and if they wanted to make the effort, they could destroy Wal-Mart, in my opinion. But I digress....that has nothing to do with the union influence.
You are correct about unions being a fairness gauge. But that gauge was established years ago. It's in place. Like any fairness we have fought for in this country. Suffrage, equal rights, etc.
Do you think there is still a need for the "women's movement"?
No. It served it's purpose and now there is no need for it.
Ditto for the unions. See what I mean?
The UAW set the bar for auto workers, if there was no UAW Honda workers would be making $9 an hour. They have to keep it somewhat competitive so the unions DON"t come in.

Women's movement? Are you serious? Have you been paying attention to what's been happening to women over the the past few years where the extreme right wingers are trying to legislate what women can do with their bodies?
Did you know what was going on in Virginia? Where they tried to make women get invasive vaginal ultrasounds if they were thinking about having an abortion?

I think you're a bit naive in the ways of the world.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#29 Dec 10, 2012
kama sutra 69 wrote:
<quoted text> The UAW set the bar for auto workers, if there was no UAW Honda workers would be making $9 an hour. They have to keep it somewhat competitive so the unions DON"t come in.
Women's movement? Are you serious? Have you been paying attention to what's been happening to women over the the past few years where the extreme right wingers are trying to legislate what women can do with their bodies?
Did you know what was going on in Virginia? Where they tried to make women get invasive vaginal ultrasounds if they were thinking about having an abortion?
I think you're a bit naive in the ways of the world.
You are obviously too dense to appreciate my analogy.

Have I been paying attention to what's been happening to women over the past few years??

What has happened?

Please clue me in.

Invasive vaginal ultrasounds in order to get an abortion? Oh, my.

How invasive to the vaginal area do you think an abortion in itself would be? As a woman, I prefer to take responsibility for my own body. If I happened to choose to get an abortion, I suppose I would expect some measure of "invasiveness".

Or are you talking about the off chance that I would expect someone else, for example, the tax payers, to pay for my medical procedure? I guess I don't get why anyone would think someone else should pay for their mistakes.

However, I would never see a human life as a mistake. And in the process of bringing said life into the world, a woman can expect quite a bit of "invasiveness."

I don't really get why you brought that up. I was talking about suffrage. You do know what that is, right?

But we were talking about unions.....the point I was attempting to make was that women's fight for the right to vote is moot today. Just as unions are.

Get it?

“The US founders were Deists”

Since: May 09

Any Town USA

#30 Dec 10, 2012
Ethel K wrote:
<quoted text>
You are obviously too dense to appreciate my analogy.
Have I been paying attention to what's been happening to women over the past few years??
What has happened?
Please clue me in.
Invasive vaginal ultrasounds in order to get an abortion? Oh, my.
How invasive to the vaginal area do you think an abortion in itself would be? As a woman, I prefer to take responsibility for my own body. If I happened to choose to get an abortion, I suppose I would expect some measure of "invasiveness".
Or are you talking about the off chance that I would expect someone else, for example, the tax payers, to pay for my medical procedure? I guess I don't get why anyone would think someone else should pay for their mistakes.
However, I would never see a human life as a mistake. And in the process of bringing said life into the world, a woman can expect quite a bit of "invasiveness."
I don't really get why you brought that up. I was talking about suffrage. You do know what that is, right?
But we were talking about unions.....the point I was attempting to make was that women's fight for the right to vote is moot today. Just as unions are.
Get it?
A bit testy aren't we?

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/double...

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#31 Dec 10, 2012
kama sutra 69 wrote:
<quoted text> A bit testy aren't we?
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/double...
Testy?

No. Not at all.

Just honest. If I wanted the tax payers to pay for my medical procedures, then I would obviously have to subject myself to the standard the law had defined.

What is testy about that?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#32 Dec 10, 2012
So, can we get back to unions?

Or are you just trying to keep the subject diverted?

Not that I would blame you, as your argument has been blown out of the water.

“The US founders were Deists”

Since: May 09

Any Town USA

#33 Dec 10, 2012
Ethel K wrote:
<quoted text>
Testy?
No. Not at all.
Just honest. If I wanted the tax payers to pay for my medical procedures, then I would obviously have to subject myself to the standard the law had defined.
What is testy about that?
With your insults. Just because someone doesn't buy into your load of crap doesn't give you the right to insult them.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#34 Dec 11, 2012
kama sutra 69 wrote:
<quoted text> With your insults. Just because someone doesn't buy into your load of crap doesn't give you the right to insult them.
What?!

Insults?

Load of crap?

OK, I thought we were having a discussion. I gave my opinion and I am sorry if your feelings were hurt by anything I said.

I stand by my comments, however. If you want to end our debate with a comment like that, so be it.

Have a nice day.

“Republican Outrage & Hate will”

Since: Jun 10

Cost Them Again Come 2016

#35 Dec 11, 2012
thud333 wrote:
<quoted text>
None of which is happening in Michigan or any right to work state. Its only folks like you that want to force people to pay dues and belong to things that they would prefer not to. Actually you sound more like Hiter than they do.
Most people I know who were members of a union didn't bitch about their dues, but felt what they paid was worth the protection.

“Republican Outrage & Hate will”

Since: Jun 10

Cost Them Again Come 2016

#36 Dec 11, 2012
Ethel K wrote:
Hmm. We have had this conversation before, haven't we? Every time unions are brought up, it is the same thing.
So I will say the same thing I have said before. Unions were formed for the good of the American blue collar worker, and with good reason. They served a good purpose.
And today, they have outlived their usefulness.
Well then, they better come up with something else real quick that protects worker's rights because those rights are being fiddled away at an alarming rate, and will effect everyone in the work force no matter what party they belong to. How come wages have stagnated and are still what they were 2 decades ago? People can't make a living wage on $10,$12 an hour working in blue collar jobs.

This is what this 'Right to Work" will 'do:

-It lowers wages! The average worker in RTW (right to work) states makes about $5,333 less a year than those in free bargaining states.

- Jobs end up with fewer health benefits. 21% more people lack health insurance in RTW states compared to free bargaining states.

-The poverty rate gets higher! RTW states have a poverty rate of $12.5% compared to 10.2% in free bargaining states.

-There are more workplace fatalities! The rate of workplace deaths is 51% higher in RTW states, where unions can't speak up on behalf of workers.

And why out of the whole population of Michigan do only 4% approve of RTW being shoved through?

“Republican Outrage & Hate will”

Since: Jun 10

Cost Them Again Come 2016

#37 Dec 11, 2012
kama sutra 69 wrote:
<quoted text> The UAW set the bar for auto workers, if there was no UAW Honda workers would be making $9 an hour. They have to keep it somewhat competitive so the unions DON"t come in.
Women's movement? Are you serious? Have you been paying attention to what's been happening to women over the the past few years where the extreme right wingers are trying to legislate what women can do with their bodies?
Did you know what was going on in Virginia? Where they tried to make women get invasive vaginal ultrasounds if they were thinking about having an abortion?
I think you're a bit naive in the ways of the world.
They don't want women getting paid the same wage of men, either.

Maybe Ethel thinks her own sex should not be paid as much for the same amount of work as us men. I've heard of women who think they are inferior to men and enjoy being submissive to the stronger sex.

“ +IAN, AMERICAN, OHIOAN, BELLE”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#38 Dec 11, 2012
thud333 wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a difference between life and unions Iron...if your not quite sure what that is, check out your new grandchild
WHAP!!! Score one!

“ +IAN, AMERICAN, OHIOAN, BELLE”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#39 Dec 11, 2012
Kickback 2U wrote:
<quoted text> They don't want women getting paid the same wage of men, either.
Maybe Ethel thinks her own sex should not be paid as much for the same amount of work as us men. I've heard of women who think they are inferior to men and enjoy being submissive to the stronger sex.
Desperate, outrageous!
Oregon Bob

Bellefontaine, OH

#40 Dec 11, 2012
The Republican party of the United States will not cease in these efforts to eliminate the American middle class until America is returned to the sort of sweatshop paradise for fat cats so well portrayed in the novels of Charles Dickens.

America was like that in the early 19th Century, and it will be again if American voters continue to be tricked by hot-button social issues to support bait & switch duplicitous Republican candidates for public office ... against the economic interests of your own families.

If you wish to see the continuation of corporate CEOs earning on average more than FOUR HUNDRED (400) times the average wage of workers for those corporations - earning more each day than you earn in an entire year - and if you wish to see the continuation of business management keeping your own weekly hours just below the threshold where you would be entitled to company benefits, and if you wish to continue the status quo where your take-home pay isn't even adequate for you to be able to purchase for your own families the products you produce,... then by all means just keep blindly supporting the Republican Party as they slowly but surely march you to the poor house and transfer your dwindling wealth to their own pockets (and to their off-shore bank accounts).

You can be assured that the return of American Debtor's Prisons are just around the corner if the contemporary Republican Party is ever empowered to control our US Government. Look up the term "chattel" and "wage slavery", and see if they make you smile, or make you shudder!

The worst threat to the Republican Party of the United States is an informed electorate.

“ +IAN, AMERICAN, OHIOAN, BELLE”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#41 Dec 11, 2012
Oregon Bob wrote:
The Republican party of the United States will not cease in these efforts to eliminate the American middle class until America is returned to the sort of sweatshop paradise for fat cats so well portrayed in the novels of Charles Dickens.
America was like that in the early 19th Century, and it will be again if American voters continue to be tricked by hot-button social issues to support bait & switch duplicitous Republican candidates for public office ... against the economic interests of your own families.
If you wish to see the continuation of corporate CEOs earning on average more than FOUR HUNDRED (400) times the average wage of workers for those corporations - earning more each day than you earn in an entire year - and if you wish to see the continuation of business management keeping your own weekly hours just below the threshold where you would be entitled to company benefits, and if you wish to continue the status quo where your take-home pay isn't even adequate for you to be able to purchase for your own families the products you produce,... then by all means just keep blindly supporting the Republican Party as they slowly but surely march you to the poor house and transfer your dwindling wealth to their own pockets (and to their off-shore bank accounts).
You can be assured that the return of American Debtor's Prisons are just around the corner if the contemporary Republican Party is ever empowered to control our US Government. Look up the term "chattel" and "wage slavery", and see if they make you smile, or make you shudder!
The worst threat to the Republican Party of the United States is an informed electorate.
Well, you could use some informing, yourself, since most of what you posted, is opinion without any data to substantiate your claims. All of this noise about the "middle class" is pointless without a correct definition of what constitutes middle class. Are you willing to define your terms?

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