'Social promotion' bill never receive...

'Social promotion' bill never receives vote

There are 15 comments on the Las Cruces Sun-News story from Mar 19, 2011, titled 'Social promotion' bill never receives vote. In it, Las Cruces Sun-News reports that:

Gov. Susana Martinez lost one of her high-profile education initiatives Saturday when her proposal to retain thousands of struggling third-graders never got a vote in the Senate.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Las Cruces Sun-News.

JM in San Diego CA

Oceanside, CA

#1 Mar 19, 2011
When I was a kid, being retained was called "getting left back." You didn't want to get left back and it was a very real threat. We typically had a kid or two get left back every year out of each class.

Fear is a great motivator. Sanchez obviously doesn't want kids to be motivated. What a shame he's got the power to enforce mediocrity.
Captain America

Las Cruces, NM

#3 Mar 19, 2011
And here's the rest of the story

http://nmpolitics.net/index/2011/03/session-e...
So sick

Placitas, NM

#4 Mar 20, 2011
More NM slimy politics. These dudes on northern NM arehorrible dirty babies that need to go. Why on earth would you not vote on the social promotion bill. Total b.s. Glad the Capitol outlay got put hold hilliarous even the slim bags didn't get to waste anymore of
Our money.

Since: Jan 09

Las Cruces, NM

#5 Mar 20, 2011
And New Mexico remains mired as the 49th worst state in the nation.

Great job, Sanchez and the "oh-so-caring" Democrats.

I welcome the comments of Dr. Hays on this one.
Michael L Hays

Las Cruces, NM

#6 Mar 20, 2011
BottleRocket wrote:
And New Mexico remains mired as the 49th worst state in the nation.
Great job, Sanchez and the "oh-so-caring" Democrats.
I welcome the comments of Dr. Hays on this one.
Thanks for the invitation to comment.(You don't welcome my comments on others?:-) I guess snot after my most recent scolding.)

First, let me be clear that I have no principled objection to ending social promotion; I never agreed with it in the first place.

That said, I think that a change in policy from having to abolishing it, at least between 3rd and 4th grade, must be part of a larger consideration of what are the causes for the change and what are appropriate responses. I do not believe that merely holding students back, especially in any numbers, in itself can accomplish much (the larger the numbers, the less "fear" will motivate). Simply repeating a year which has already been one of four to fail to teach reading will make much of an academic difference.

If large percentages of students cannot read proficiently by the end of third grade (we know that about 50% cannot read proficiently by the end of 4th grade), then a number of questions require answers. First, why cannot four different teachers (K, 1st, 2nd, 3rd) teach reading? Second, why cannot the reading specialists teach it? Third, what gets done, by whom, at what cost to remediate what these teachers have failed to do in four years? Fourth, how will schools manage the larger numbers of students in 3rd grader and ensure that, other than mere repetition, that the repeaters are getting the effective, reading-results-oriented, remedial assistance which they require. Fifth, what happens to these students if they still cannot achieve reading proficiency after a repeated 3rd grade? Finally, are data collection and analysis measures in place to evaluate this arrangement?

I suppose there are more questions to be asked of this proposal. As it stands, it does not offer more than a quick shot in the dark. I know nothing of the politics, so I am not going to judge Sanchez on his "hold." But I think that it gives everyone, especially supporters, the opportunity to think through the requirements and consequences of this proposal.
paul

Santa Fe, NM

#7 Mar 20, 2011
When my kids went to school,I had one kid that didn't know his ABC's,I told the school about it.They promoted him anyway.The law sucks.
paul

Santa Fe, NM

#8 Mar 20, 2011
Michael L Hays wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the invitation to comment.(You don't welcome my comments on others?:-) I guess snot after my most recent scolding.)
First, let me be clear that I have no principled objection to ending social promotion; I never agreed with it in the first place.
That said, I think that a change in policy from having to abolishing it, at least between 3rd and 4th grade, must be part of a larger consideration of what are the causes for the change and what are appropriate responses. I do not believe that merely holding students back, especially in any numbers, in itself can accomplish much (the larger the numbers, the less "fear" will motivate). Simply repeating a year which has already been one of four to fail to teach reading will make much of an academic difference.
If large percentages of students cannot read proficiently by the end of third grade (we know that about 50% cannot read proficiently by the end of 4th grade), then a number of questions require answers. First, why cannot four different teachers (K, 1st, 2nd, 3rd) teach reading? Second, why cannot the reading specialists teach it? Third, what gets done, by whom, at what cost to remediate what these teachers have failed to do in four years? Fourth, how will schools manage the larger numbers of students in 3rd grader and ensure that, other than mere repetition, that the repeaters are getting the effective, reading-results-oriented, remedial assistance which they require. Fifth, what happens to these students if they still cannot achieve reading proficiency after a repeated 3rd grade? Finally, are data collection and analysis measures in place to evaluate this arrangement?
I suppose there are more questions to be asked of this proposal. As it stands, it does not offer more than a quick shot in the dark. I know nothing of the politics, so I am not going to judge Sanchez on his "hold." But I think that it gives everyone, especially supporters, the opportunity to think through the requirements and consequences of this proposal.
"If you don't know how to read or write why should you be Promoted?Is it peer pressure?
Either Its

Albuquerque, NM

#9 Mar 20, 2011
Michael L Hays wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the invitation to comment.(You don't welcome my comments on others?:-) I guess snot after my most recent scolding.)
First, let me be clear that I have no principled objection to ending social promotion; I never agreed with it in the first place.
That said, I think that a change in policy from having to abolishing it, at least between 3rd and 4th grade, must be part of a larger consideration of what are the causes for the change and what are appropriate responses. I do not believe that merely holding students back, especially in any numbers, in itself can accomplish much (the larger the numbers, the less "fear" will motivate). Simply repeating a year which has already been one of four to fail to teach reading will make much of an academic difference.
If large percentages of students cannot read proficiently by the end of third grade (we know that about 50% cannot read proficiently by the end of 4th grade), then a number of questions require answers. First, why cannot four different teachers (K, 1st, 2nd, 3rd) teach reading? Second, why cannot the reading specialists teach it? Third, what gets done, by whom, at what cost to remediate what these teachers have failed to do in four years? Fourth, how will schools manage the larger numbers of students in 3rd grader and ensure that, other than mere repetition, that the repeaters are getting the effective, reading-results-oriented, remedial assistance which they require. Fifth, what happens to these students if they still cannot achieve reading proficiency after a repeated 3rd grade? Finally, are data collection and analysis measures in place to evaluate this arrangement?
I suppose there are more questions to be asked of this proposal. As it stands, it does not offer more than a quick shot in the dark. I know nothing of the politics, so I am not going to judge Sanchez on his "hold." But I think that it gives everyone, especially supporters, the opportunity to think through the requirements and consequences of this proposal.
snot or not! No guessing required!
Michael L Hays

Las Cruces, NM

#10 Mar 20, 2011
Either Its wrote:
<quoted text>snot or not! No guessing required!
I was asked for my opinion. I gave it. I also committed a type. Big whoopdi-doo. And your contribution to an adult exchange on this topic is what exactly?
So sick

Placitas, NM

#11 Mar 20, 2011
So don't do it and continue to put promote kids that can't read andthenwonder why they struggle later on. Mr hays you bring up a couple of valid points, but to sit on our hands and let kids continue to fail at reading is not only cheating those kids, but is also holding kids back that could be moving forward in class. Why do we teach to the bottom and wonder why we don't turn out better students.
OMG

Brighton, MI

#12 Mar 20, 2011
paul wrote:
When my kids went to school,I had one kid that didn't know his ABC's,I told the school about it.They promoted him anyway.The law sucks.
Sit down with your kid, get a Dr. Seuss book, read it to him while pointing at the words with your finger, every day. If your kid can't read, you're as much to blame, if not more so, as the education system. And stop smoking and drinking when you're pregnant.
Ur a SNOT

Brighton, MI

#13 Mar 20, 2011
Either Its wrote:
<quoted text>snot or not! No guessing required!
In your case, it's SNOT.
Politics as usual

Brighton, MI

#14 Mar 20, 2011
BottleRocket wrote:
And New Mexico remains mired as the 49th worst state in the nation.
Great job, Sanchez and the "oh-so-caring" Democrats.
I welcome the comments of Dr. Hays on this one.
You forgot to credit Susana Martinez and her TEA party cohorts for creating a polarizing adversarial atmosphere between the Republicans and Democrats in legislature. If your "oh-so-caring" Republicans had voted for Cervantes for House Speaker, instead of playing partisan politics, then maybe more of Susana's agenda would have been passed. Live and learn, or not.

“ keep the loonies on the path.”

Since: Aug 10

Detroit

#15 Mar 20, 2011
Michael Sanchez is a good example of what failing third graders become.

“Marching to my own drum beat.”

Since: Mar 11

Las Cruces, NM

#16 Mar 30, 2011
JM in San Diego CA wrote:
When I was a kid, being retained was called "getting left back." You didn't want to get left back and it was a very real threat. We typically had a kid or two get left back every year out of each class.

Fear is a great motivator. Sanchez obviously doesn't want kids to be motivated. What a shame he's got the power to enforce mediocrity.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in being "left back". There are hundreds of reasons why a kid could be "left back" and some of those reasons might surprise you. I was left back a grade because I became very sick and was unable to go to school for half a year. I have not suffered because I was held back. No one put me down or made fun of because of it. I benefited from the experience. I have a child who has been in school, but has been in poor health and unable to focus to learn. Now that I have succeeded in getting the doctor to help and get my child healthy, he can now focus on academics. I would not object to him being left behind. In fact, I would love it. I wish people would stop treating the issue like it is a bad thing. It can be the best thing a school can do for it's students.

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