Tipping point: fill-up tank or work?

[Horsnaround]

Grumpy in Grandville wrote:

As I believe that we have not reached to lowest point of this recession and we continue to spiral down. More and more people will find themselves in difficult situations. In the last six years West Michigan has lost over 100,000 manufacturing jobs. This lose trickles down other small businesses. You have to stop spending on things like clothing, food, restaurants, health care, ect. If you look at the stats for our state we have fallen to the bottom of the heap. Michigan needs to change it's focus, complaining about this families car it just focusing on a surface issue! The real issue is how do we all pull together to stop the downward spiral and reinvent our state!

You're oh so right. Not just Michigan as you know, we're just at the bottom of the pit! Look at how many manufacturing jobs have left the U.S. as a whole...it's staggering. How this Country is going to survive being a mere service economy is beyond me.

[Glassy]

Well if you want something else interesting to debate, what about Shell who has hired newly graduated kids from college and they are starting at $70,000.00 plus sign on bonuses....think about where your $163.00 to fill your truck is really going. Sorry to say, but any kid who walks out of college and is getting paid these kind of dollars makes me sick. With only a BS in marketing, this person has to move out of state (texas) and of course gets all kinds of perks and benefits that most of now only dream of. Makes me sick! Of course they aren't going to solve the worlds problems or the US's gas costs because they are going to be in there own world, as most of todays kids seem to be! Maybe I am jealous, but I do go to work every day, and a part-time job 3 to 5 times a week, so I can make ends meet! Hope this grad appreciates this job, as they don't grow on trees!

[we deserve it all]

I'm always amazed at the attititudes around here. "They shouldn't make that much, I'd do that job for less". Why cant people aspire to make more of themselves instead of tearing others down to their level. Jealousy makes people look petty and bitter. There are jobs out there, just maybe not what you are used to doing or something you never thought of, or need training for. Yes, some people are lucky, but many people are weathering this downturn just fine, and it seems that the unlucky just can't stand to see that. Many people are in dire straits right now due to poor decisions, inability to handle money, and living beyond their means. Add a dash of bad luck and they're screwed. Use your energy to change your situation for the better, not lament about how bad it is, or how good it used to be.

[Union All The Way]

Justice wrote:

<quoted text>
It's what I pay for mine. Go price 'em.

I guess a lease..sounds cheap to me.

[Union All The Way]

we deserve it all wrote:

I'm always amazed at the attititudes around here. "They shouldn't make that much, I'd do that job for less". Why cant people aspire to make more of themselves instead of tearing others down to their level. Jealousy makes people look petty and bitter. There are jobs out there, just maybe not what you are used to doing or something you never thought of, or need training for. Yes, some people are lucky, but many people are weathering this downturn just fine, and it seems that the unlucky just can't stand to see that. Many people are in dire straits right now due to poor decisions, inability to handle money, and living beyond their means. Add a dash of bad luck and they're screwed. Use your energy to change your situation for the better, not lament about how bad it is, or how good it used to be.

Bravo, bravo...when the going gets tough..the tough get going..think you have problems..read the paper or watch the news because if you are on the internet with a computer..life can't be that bad..if it is..do something to change it!!!

[mike]

Get a more efficient vehicle! I traded in this spring my 1992 Dodge Dakota pick up for a 2004 Chevy Cavalier. Not that there was anything wrong with my truck it was a great vehicle and very reliable. It was the 90+ dollars per week in gas that did it. Now I am spending an average of 35 dollars a week. With my car payment being 174 a month the car pays for itself and is a much nicer vehicle. Good point; I went to the park this weekend with my son, out of 21 vehicles there 18 of them were pickups or SUV's, 2 were large 4 door sedans only 1 was a smaller fuel efficient car. Our habits are just as much to blame for this as everything else. I remember growing up in the 70's-80's the only people who had trucks actually needed them to make a living!

[Grumpy in Grandville]

It is not just manufacturing jobs that are lost, white collar as well as skilled trades. China is doing tool and die work ans shipping it to GR manufactures instead of using local shops. People are being let go after years of service only to be replaces with engineers and database people from the near and far east. Manufactures are hiring people to manufacture goods as temps and getting rid of them just before they have worked a year so they can get around federal laws. This all happens in West Michigan. I have seen it. It makes me sick! Michigan needs a plan to work for Michigan and a cheap gas efficient car is only a baby step or a Band Aid focusing on one small area. Life needs to change and Michigan needs to work and pull together to CHANGE or we will be left behind!

[whiner]

thinkful wrote:

If you want to get back at the oil companies, do not go into their convenience store and buy their goods. Pay with a credit card and they lose 2% to the credit card company. Another thought, since Michigan drivers are some of the worst in the nation, slow down. Hello. Driving 55 instead of 70 saves 15% on the mpg's. In a way that will save you $.60 a gallon on $4 gas. The real problem is the disconnect between those who will never have to worry about a budget and those for whom their budget keeps them up nights.

Driving 55 is sensible but it sure brings on a lot of road rage.

[Unpopular Opinion]

Jason wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, I made the unpopular comments earlier... Let me tell you this. I am in Real Estate, I have continued to sell houses, and yes times aren't as good as they used to be, but I work harder and smarter. This over blown nonsense about house not selling is bull. For too long the American people have been living beyond their means. The reason no one can sell their home is because they have sucked every last penny out of it like a bottomless ATM and CANNOT AFFORD to SELL THEIR HOME.
You are myopic to think that homes are not selling.I have three buyers I am currently working with with over 10% down and 650 credit scores ready to find a house that isn't a piece of C**P.
Besides, this guy said he lost his house, so why couldn't he move closer to the city? Why on earth do American Axle workers need to strike when they average $60 an hour???? GM, Ford, all of the UAW workers make me sick.
Wake up people, the haydays of $30 an hour plus more fringe bennies than you'll ever use are OVER! Lifestyle changes must take place because gas and food prices aren't coming down. There will be ways to make money in this new economy. It just won't be in the form of a union job!.

You make some good points, but I will counter on several.
First, there are many people who were living within their means who are now displaced. I don't care if you saved 25% of your income. If you go unemployed over a long period of time you are going to quickly dissipate any savings or "nest egg" that you have accumulated.
Second, you are right about houses selling. There is still a market, especially for young buyers. However, many people are losing money on their home investments. There are many factors that contribute to this (giving people with 650 credit ratings excessive credit, for example), but the bottom line is that people are being hit hard and its not necessarily due to mistakes that they have made. Some situations are simply out of the control of the workers.
Third, you must not deal too much with the legal aspect of real estate. Granted, the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act has helped some people, but often times people lose their homes in forclosure and still owe significant amounts of money on their mortgage. If the bank decides that they do not want to forgive the remaining value of your mortgage, then you are essentially homeless with a mortgage payment. I wouldn't wish this upon anybody.
Fourth, where did you get the $60 dollar per hour average from American Axle? You lost a little bit of credibility when you pulled that one out of thin air. I'll agree, they make too much, but they make nowhere close to $60 per hour.
Finally, if I were this gentleman and had worked for forty years to essentially lose everything within the last five, I would be bitter. A lot of people have worked very hard to ultimately lose everything through no fault of their own.
I agree that many people live beyond their means. However, many have lost everything even though they were fiscally responsible. These are the people that I feel for. People like the gentleman in this newscast who have lost everything but have reached the age of market rejection - they have reached an age where they do not have the time to consider a change in professions, and even if they did, they would lose out to younger and more experienced competition.
Once again, your points have some validity to them. However, they are over-generalized. Not every displaced worker is a fat, lazy, welfare-succling idiot who lacks fiscal responsibility. Many people have worked hard and done the right things their entire lives only to lose everything. But many of you are quick to pass judgment as to the reasons they've become disadvantaged. Shame on those of you who do. You are truly something less than human.

[Jason]

Unpopular Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>
You make some good points, but I will counter on several.
First, there are many people who were living within their means who are now displaced. I don't care if you saved 25% of your income. If you go unemployed over a long period of time you are going to quickly dissipate any savings or "nest egg" that you have accumulated.
Second, you are right about houses selling. There is still a market, especially for young buyers. However, many people are losing money on their home investments. There are many factors that contribute to this (giving people with 650 credit ratings excessive credit, for example), but the bottom line is that people are being hit hard and its not necessarily due to mistakes that they have made. Some situations are simply out of the control of the workers.
Third, you must not deal too much with the legal aspect of real estate. Granted, the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act has helped some people, but often times people lose their homes in forclosure and still owe significant amounts of money on their mortgage. If the bank decides that they do not want to forgive the remaining value of your mortgage, then you are essentially homeless with a mortgage payment. I wouldn't wish this upon anybody.
Fourth, where did you get the $60 dollar per hour average from American Axle? You lost a little bit of credibility when you pulled that one out of thin air. I'll agree, they make too much, but they make nowhere close to $60 per hour.
Finally, if I were this gentleman and had worked for forty years to essentially lose everything within the last five, I would be bitter. A lot of people have worked very hard to ultimately lose everything through no fault of their own.
I agree that many people live beyond their means. However, many have lost everything even though they were fiscally responsible. These are the people that I feel for. People like the gentleman in this newscast who have lost everything but have reached the age of market rejection - they have reached an age where they do not have the time to consider a change in professions, and even if they did, they would lose out to younger and more experienced competition.
Once again, your points have some validity to them. However, they are over-generalized. Not every displaced worker is a fat, lazy, welfare-succling idiot who lacks fiscal responsibility. Many people have worked hard and done the right things their entire lives only to lose everything. But many of you are quick to pass judgment as to the reasons they've become disadvantaged. Shame on those of you who do. You are truly something less than human.

The auto parts maker, a major supplier for General Motors, is seeking to cut wages and benefits by nearly two-thirds. The company wants to reduce “all-in” hourly labor costs—which include wages and health, retiree and other benefits—from around $70 an hour to $27 an hour for production workers and $35 an hour for skilled trades workers, according to the Wall Street Journal. That would take hourly wages down from $27 an hour to $14, bringing them on par with wage cuts negotiated by the UAW with Delphi and for new hires at Detroit’s Big Three automakers—GM, Ford and Chrysler LLC.
Taken from this website: http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/20...
You're right I was wrong, it's $70 per hour! Anyone that can sleep at night thinking they deserve $70 an hour for unskilled labor is the one that is less than human! Face it union labor is the root of the problems in this country. The big Three can't compete with a nation like China's developing 2 billion population willing to work for a TENTH or less than that. Any smart business owner would hire unskilled labor at a tenth of the going rate and ship their product three times around the world. It's basic laws of supply and demand, there is no demand for an unskilled workforce at $70 per hour! Thanks for the insult though!

[Unpopular Opinion]

Jason wrote:

<quoted text>
The auto parts maker, a major supplier for General Motors, is seeking to cut wages and benefits by nearly two-thirds. The company wants to reduce “all-in” hourly labor costs—which include wages and health, retiree and other benefits—from around $70 an hour to $27 an hour for production workers and $35 an hour for skilled trades workers, according to the Wall Street Journal. That would take hourly wages down from $27 an hour to $14, bringing them on par with wage cuts negotiated by the UAW with Delphi and for new hires at Detroit’s Big Three automakers—GM, Ford and Chrysler LLC.
Taken from this website: http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/20...
You're right I was wrong, it's $70 per hour! Anyone that can sleep at night thinking they deserve $70 an hour for unskilled labor is the one that is less than human! Face it union labor is the root of the problems in this country. The big Three can't compete with a nation like China's developing 2 billion population willing to work for a TENTH or less than that. Any smart business owner would hire unskilled labor at a tenth of the going rate and ship their product three times around the world. It's basic laws of supply and demand, there is no demand for an unskilled workforce at $70 per hour! Thanks for the insult though!

I did not intend to insult you. I tend to finish my posts with a general observation of many posts. Sorry if you took it that way, it was not intended. I believe that you make fair arguments and that's why I've been responding to your posts.

If you throw in the health care, pension, and additional benefits, then yes, the UAW worker could be "earning" $70 per hour. However, benefits do not pay mortgages. If your take-home wage is being cut in half it is going to adversely affect your lifestyle. And let's be honest...in today's day and age $14 per hour does not get you too far, especially if you have a family to feed. My father started working in a factory at close to that wage in the early seventies. The cost of living has increased slightly since then.

As a whole I am anti-union. The only reason I may appear to be defending them in this post is because the economic problems in MI extend far beyond union members. Factory workers have been displaced. College grads are working $10-12 per hour jobs. Many people are not in a situation that allows them to return to school. The point I've been trying to make is that not everyone is not in a position to sell a home and move to the city or to purchase a more fuel efficient vehicle because everybody's circumstances regarding unemployment and finances are unique. I agree that many people have been irresponsible. However, this does not apply to every unemployed worker who is losing their home, car, or whatever other property it may be.

[Robin]

This story is going to echo and echo repeatedly if things don't change, especially in areas already struck hard by job losses (like Greenville and most of Montcalm County). People are having to decide whether to put food on the table or put gas in their tanks so they can get to work. I live in Rockford but work in Sheridan (in Montcalm County). The morning commute is non-stop for west-bounders coming out of Greenville going towards GR. It is unbelievable.

[Glassy]

By the way these $70.00 an hour positions do not grow on trees. I would imagine if there poll done, most of them haven ever gone to college and do not have the skills to go out and get a non-factory job. Most of them should have seen this coming with all the Delco to Delphi and the other automotive factories going south. Unfortunately for me I am in the Building Trades business, have not seen a raise in 3 years, but I do have a job, oh and a college education, but there is no way I will ever see more then $20.00 an hour. Get a life and learn to live with-in your means, and this strike business is a joke! Not a good example to your children! Maybe if they don't want to clean their rooms they might strike too! A no win situation - and unions, well they are a waste of your money too, they have outlived there true reasons.