Compromise on raising revenues in DC

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Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#1 Nov 11, 2012
Washington Post editorial about increasing revenues:

"If, for example, Congress kept existing tax rates, including the top rate of 35 percent, while capping itemized deductions at $50,000, the result would be $749 billion in additional revenue over 10 years, according to the Tax Policy Center. That is consistent with Mr. Boehner’s no-rate-increase red line and delivers a total tax increase similar to the $800 billion one he entertained in the failed negotiations of 2011.(More revenue from other sources would also be necessary, in our view.)

Meanwhile, nearly 80 percent of the extra revenue generated by the $50,000 cap would come from the top 1 percent of the income structure — enabling the president and his fellow Democrats to strike their promised blow for tax fairness.

An added benefit would be that economic decisions would be based more on market forces than on tax considerations. Raising revenue through a high deductions cap also might minimize political resistance, since it leaves most tax breaks in place for most people. There would be pushback from charities that depend on donations from the wealthy, and from high-tax states that rely on state and local tax deductions. But assuming legitimate issues can be addressed, capping deductions could be part of a red-blue compromise."

Sounds like a solution to me....as far as additional revenue is concerned anyway.
sistersalvation

Beckley, WV

#2 Nov 11, 2012
Or eliminate EIC
Info

Saint Albans, WV

#3 Nov 11, 2012
Although I have never qualified for EIC, this would hurt poor to mid income families.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#4 Nov 11, 2012
sistersalvation wrote:
Or eliminate EIC
For 2011 the earned income credit (EIC)limits:

•$43,998 ($49,078 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children
•$40,964 ($46,044 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children
•$36,052 ($41,132 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
•$13,660 ($18,740 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children

Tax Year 2011 maximum credit:

•$5,751 with three or more qualifying children
•$5,112 with two qualifying children
•$3,094 with one qualifying child
•$464 with no qualifying children

If middle class wages had kept pace over the past 30 years then these credits wouldn't be necessary to keep people out of the poor house. There are spending cuts that can and should be made but I'm not sure these should be included.
captialist pig

Beckley, WV

#5 Nov 11, 2012
Lesson Learned wrote:
<quoted text>
For 2011 the earned income credit (EIC)limits:
•$43,998 ($49,078 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children
•$40,964 ($46,044 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children
•$36,052 ($41,132 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
•$13,660 ($18,740 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children
Tax Year 2011 maximum credit:
•$5,751 with three or more qualifying children
•$5,112 with two qualifying children
•$3,094 with one qualifying child
•$464 with no qualifying children
If middle class wages had kept pace over the past 30 years then these credits wouldn't be necessary to keep people out of the poor house. There are spending cuts that can and should be made but I'm not sure these should be included.
If it were to be cut out and I think it probably should, it certainly should be fazed out and not cut all at once. The working poor have come to count on this money. If they knew it was coming to an end, they may seek other ways to increase income. I would also advocated maybe waiting untile the economy is better so people can have a chance to increase their income. I also think that some of these programs that we use to help the working poor often artificially keep wages down and companies would have to pay people more so they could survive if the government wasnt subsidizing them. People are not going to work if the job wont let them survive. I could be wrong, but it is worth looking at.
sistersalvation

Danielson, CT

#6 Nov 11, 2012
I'm well aware of EIC credits and limits, but thanks any way.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#7 Nov 11, 2012
sistersalvation wrote:
I'm well aware of EIC credits and limits, but thanks any way.
Obviously, but my post was to give more information to those who might not be aware of what it stood for and how it would affect the lower and middle income people.

I too never received any type of credit or government handout but then my income kept going up every year and never stagnated....not to say I was well off but I got by.
nemesis

Charleston, WV

#8 Nov 11, 2012
How can you compromise when some rich Republicans have threatened to put their money in Gold and bury it, move it offshore, move to Central America or go to Europe to avoid paying taxes. There's no room for compromise here, they want it all, and don't intend to help support their own Country. Let them surrender their Citizenship when they leave.
captialist pig

Beckley, WV

#9 Nov 11, 2012
nemesis wrote:
How can you compromise when some rich Republicans have threatened to put their money in Gold and bury it, move it offshore, move to Central America or go to Europe to avoid paying taxes. There's no room for compromise here, they want it all, and don't intend to help support their own Country. Let them surrender their Citizenship when they leave.
yeah, just like all the liberals that were going to leave the country when Bush was re-elected. They are all still here.
Those Repubicans are not going anywhere either.
Now if they raise the taxes on investment and capital, then investors will take that money other places. People from all over the world invest money in the United States becasue it is a better place to invest than in their own country. Americans will do the same. Investing is not a moral issue, it is an economic issue. BTW, not all rich people are Republicans, Democrats and Liberals will also invest outside the country if investment income and capital are overtaxed.
On a side note, I always find it funny to see rich liberals talking about outsourcing of jobs, who is one of the biggest outsourcer of jobs right now - Rich Hollywood movie makers, who are making movies all over the world to cut labor costs. you libs should quit going to the movies.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#10 Nov 11, 2012
nemesis wrote:
How can you compromise when some rich Republicans have threatened to put their money in Gold and bury it, move it offshore, move to Central America or go to Europe to avoid paying taxes. There's no room for compromise here, they want it all, and don't intend to help support their own Country. Let them surrender their Citizenship when they leave.
If the Dems don't compromise then a bill will never get out of the House that the Dems will agree to....and the Republicans in the Senate will fillibuster anything the Dems there agree to pass. We can't take four more years of deadlock.

I hope Obama takes another look at the Simpson-Bowles plan.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#11 Nov 11, 2012
captialist pig wrote:
<quoted text>
yeah, just like all the liberals that were going to leave the country when Bush was re-elected. They are all still here.
Those Repubicans are not going anywhere either.
Now if they raise the taxes on investment and capital, then investors will take that money other places. People from all over the world invest money in the United States becasue it is a better place to invest than in their own country. Americans will do the same. Investing is not a moral issue, it is an economic issue. BTW, not all rich people are Republicans, Democrats and Liberals will also invest outside the country if investment income and capital are overtaxed.
On a side note, I always find it funny to see rich liberals talking about outsourcing of jobs, who is one of the biggest outsourcer of jobs right now - Rich Hollywood movie makers, who are making movies all over the world to cut labor costs. you libs should quit going to the movies.
The outsourcer that I find the most offensive is Apple...a company born and bred in the USA and as American as apple pie taking their production to China to fatten their pocketbooks. Shame on them, shame on Steve Jobs....he's no hero.
informed citizen

Beckley, WV

#12 Nov 11, 2012
Why Apple builds iPhones (and everything else) in China

President Obama reportedly once asked Steve Jobs what it would take to make iPhones in the U.S. Jobs' response wasn't encouraging..

What does China have that America lacks?
Quite a lot. China has more mid-level engineers, a more flexible workforce, and gigantic factories that can ramp up production at the drop of a hat. China also offers tech firms a one-stop solution. "The entire supply chain is in China now," a former high-ranking Apple executive tells The Times. "You need a thousand rubber gaskets? That's the factory next door. You need a million screws? That factory is a block away. You need that screw made a little bit different? It will take three hours."

It's not just about cheaper wages?
No. Wages actually aren't that big a part...


http://theweek.com/article/index/223580/why-a...

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#13 Nov 11, 2012
informed citizen wrote:
Why Apple builds iPhones (and everything else) in China
President Obama reportedly once asked Steve Jobs what it would take to make iPhones in the U.S. Jobs' response wasn't encouraging..
What does China have that America lacks?
Quite a lot. China has more mid-level engineers, a more flexible workforce, and gigantic factories that can ramp up production at the drop of a hat. China also offers tech firms a one-stop solution. "The entire supply chain is in China now," a former high-ranking Apple executive tells The Times. "You need a thousand rubber gaskets? That's the factory next door. You need a million screws? That factory is a block away. You need that screw made a little bit different? It will take three hours."
It's not just about cheaper wages?
No. Wages actually aren't that big a part...
http://theweek.com/article/index/223580/why-a...
Of course wages are the biggest reason...haven't you heard that as the Chinese make a little money in these factories and realize they can't afford to buy what they are producing they are demanding higher wages which will increase costs and that it will become cheaper to produce in the USA what is sold in the USA...and we get a better product.

I don't like outsourcers nor people who make excuses for them while our middle class is now low income because their well-paid jobs have been shipped overseas. I can sort of understand the rich wanting to put more money in their pockets but when did the middleclass start rooting for the rich instead of their fellow Americans? And I know damned well that nobody posting on Topix is more than middleclass, if that. I could puke!
informed citizen

Beckley, WV

#14 Nov 11, 2012
Btw - one-half of the equation of compromise was left from LL's cut and paste. The compromise is based on some tax increaases in exchange for comittment of drastic cuts in spending.

Per ----Washington Post

John Shea, Ellicott City

The writer served as a deputy assistant Treasury secretary from 2010 to 2011.

"Mr. Boehner’s willingness to consider this so-called compromise is contingent on Democrats’ willingness to cut entitlement spending"...

"Mr. Boehner’s remarks were designed to create the illusion of flexibility, without the reality. Unfortunately the media seem to have fallen for his ruse.

Any real compromise on the budget is going to require that both Democrats and Republicans risk the wrath of their base. That means that Democrats need to accept cuts in Social Security and Medicare benefits, and it means that Republicans need to accept higher tax rates on the rich."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mr-boe...

The Proposal - "President Barack Obama is proposing a grand bargain that would reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over 10 years, relying on a 3-to-1 mix of spending cuts and revenue increases."

The reality -

"At least on the surface, however, the status quo has prevailed. Boehner, Cantor and the GOP retain control of the House, Reid possesses a majority in the Senate but falls five votes short of a filibuster-proof Democratic contingent, and Obama is back in the White House. When Congress goes back into session on Tuesday, lawmakers will restart the hard-fought battles over taxes, entitlements and spending essentially from where they left off."

Fiscal Cliff Talks Will Likely Target Medicare, Social Security, Programs For The Poor

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/11/fisc...
informed citizen

Beckley, WV

#15 Nov 11, 2012
Lesson Learned wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course wages are the biggest reason...haven't you heard that as the Chinese make a little money in these factories and realize they can't afford to buy what they are producing they are demanding higher wages which will increase costs and that it will become cheaper to produce in the USA what is sold in the USA...and we get a better product.
I don't like outsourcers nor people who make excuses for them while our middle class is now low income because their well-paid jobs have been shipped overseas. I can sort of understand the rich wanting to put more money in their pockets but when did the middleclass start rooting for the rich instead of their fellow Americans? And I know damned well that nobody posting on Topix is more than middleclass, if that. I could puke!
Apparently on the phones wage isn't the issue. Read the article. When speed and changes are involved China gets out the product much quicker than American workers.

"It's not just about cheaper wages?

No. Wages actually aren't that big a part of the cost of making consumer electronics, according to The Times. Paying American wages to build iPhones would add only about $65 to the retail price of each handset, according to analysts' estimates. That's an amount Apple could likely afford. And in fact, China no longer offers rock-bottom wages. But when it did, it used that window "to innovate the entire way supply chains work," says Sarah Lacy at PandoDaily. China is now "a place other countries can beat on sheer cost, but not on speed, flexibility, and know-how."

What does China have that America lacks?

Quite a lot. China has more mid-level engineers, a more flexible workforce, and gigantic factories that can ramp up production at the drop of a hat. China also offers tech firms a one-stop solution. "The entire supply chain is in China now

http://theweek.com/article/index/223580/why-a...
captialist pig

Beckley, WV

#16 Nov 11, 2012
informed citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently on the phones wage isn't the issue. Read the article. When speed and changes are involved China gets out the product much quicker than American workers.
"It's not just about cheaper wages?
No. Wages actually aren't that big a part of the cost of making consumer electronics, according to The Times. Paying American wages to build iPhones would add only about $65 to the retail price of each handset, according to analysts' estimates. That's an amount Apple could likely afford. And in fact, China no longer offers rock-bottom wages. But when it did, it used that window "to innovate the entire way supply chains work," says Sarah Lacy at PandoDaily. China is now "a place other countries can beat on sheer cost, but not on speed, flexibility, and know-how."
What does China have that America lacks?
Quite a lot. China has more mid-level engineers, a more flexible workforce, and gigantic factories that can ramp up production at the drop of a hat. China also offers tech firms a one-stop solution. "The entire supply chain is in China now
http://theweek.com/article/index/223580/why-a...
liberals and union bosses have beat the slave wages drum so long and so loud that they are deaf to any other explaination for moving jobs overseas. They never want to talk about excessive taxation and over regulation.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#17 Nov 11, 2012
informed citizen wrote:
Btw - one-half of the equation of compromise was left from LL's cut and paste. The compromise is based on some tax increaases in exchange for comittment of drastic cuts in spending.
Per ----Washington Post
John Shea, Ellicott City
The writer served as a deputy assistant Treasury secretary from 2010 to 2011.
"Mr. Boehner’s willingness to consider this so-called compromise is contingent on Democrats’ willingness to cut entitlement spending"...
"Mr. Boehner’s remarks were designed to create the illusion of flexibility, without the reality. Unfortunately the media seem to have fallen for his ruse.
Any real compromise on the budget is going to require that both Democrats and Republicans risk the wrath of their base. That means that Democrats need to accept cuts in Social Security and Medicare benefits, and it means that Republicans need to accept higher tax rates on the rich."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mr-boe...
The Proposal - "President Barack Obama is proposing a grand bargain that would reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over 10 years, relying on a 3-to-1 mix of spending cuts and revenue increases."
The reality -
"At least on the surface, however, the status quo has prevailed. Boehner, Cantor and the GOP retain control of the House, Reid possesses a majority in the Senate but falls five votes short of a filibuster-proof Democratic contingent, and Obama is back in the White House. When Congress goes back into session on Tuesday, lawmakers will restart the hard-fought battles over taxes, entitlements and spending essentially from where they left off."
Fiscal Cliff Talks Will Likely Target Medicare, Social Security, Programs For The Poor
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/11/fisc...
It is not true that I left off some of my "cut & paste" that concerned cuts in spending. I posted everything that was in the article I was reading...that's why I didn't post a link. I also said in another comment that I hoped that Obama would take another look at Simpson-Bowles that specifically addresses cuts in spending as well as changes in tax structure. IC, you are the one who posts ONLY comments that support your rightwing opinions. I am realistic enough, after 4 years of rightwing deadlock, to realize that the Dems have to compromise some to get legislation passed that will increase revenue while it cuts spending. Of course Obama already had this same deal with Boehner in the summer of 2011 but Boehner has to walk away from it because his caucus wouldn't go along with it. Well, the Dems have picked up seven seats in the House and five seats in the Senate in this election so getting a deal might be easier this time around.

Democrats received more overall votes than the Republicans in Congress did, but due to gerrymandering by Republicans, Republicans retained more seats. What goes around comes around so don't plan on keeping those seats very long.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#18 Nov 11, 2012
informed citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently on the phones wage isn't the issue. Read the article. When speed and changes are involved China gets out the product much quicker than American workers.
"It's not just about cheaper wages?
No. Wages actually aren't that big a part of the cost of making consumer electronics, according to The Times. Paying American wages to build iPhones would add only about $65 to the retail price of each handset, according to analysts' estimates. That's an amount Apple could likely afford. And in fact, China no longer offers rock-bottom wages. But when it did, it used that window "to innovate the entire way supply chains work," says Sarah Lacy at PandoDaily. China is now "a place other countries can beat on sheer cost, but not on speed, flexibility, and know-how."
What does China have that America lacks?
Quite a lot. China has more mid-level engineers, a more flexible workforce, and gigantic factories that can ramp up production at the drop of a hat. China also offers tech firms a one-stop solution. "The entire supply chain is in China now
http://theweek.com/article/index/223580/why-a...
The Times was the only news source you posted that I recognized but of course you didn't post a link. Obama has been saying for four years that we need to ramp up education for Americans and hand out green cards to foreign students graduating from our universities but that of course hasn't come to pass yet. Maybe during the next four years.

But enough of defending companies that prefer to keep their production in this country against your defense of companies that take their production to other countries. Shame on you.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#19 Nov 11, 2012
captialist pig wrote:
<quoted text>
liberals and union bosses have beat the slave wages drum so long and so loud that they are deaf to any other explaination for moving jobs overseas. They never want to talk about excessive taxation and over regulation.
Over taxation and over regulation are just different words for putting more money in the pockets of the rich folk. I really cannot understand why people in the same economic strata as myself defend these corporations. You praise them for taking their factory jobs to other countries such as China yet criticize American companies like Walmart for selling these same products that are made in China or India, etc. Schizophrenic anybody?
informed citizen

Beckley, WV

#20 Nov 11, 2012
Lesson Learned wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not true that I left off some of my "cut & paste" that concerned cuts in spending. I posted everything that was in the article I was reading...that's why I didn't post a link. I also said in another comment that I hoped that Obama would take another look at Simpson-Bowles that specifically addresses cuts in spending as well as changes in tax structure. IC, you are the one who posts ONLY comments that support your rightwing opinions. I am realistic enough, after 4 years of rightwing deadlock, to realize that the Dems have to compromise some to get legislation passed that will increase revenue while it cuts spending. Of course Obama already had this same deal with Boehner in the summer of 2011 but Boehner has to walk away from it because his caucus wouldn't go along with it. Well, the Dems have picked up seven seats in the House and five seats in the Senate in this election so getting a deal might be easier this time around.
Democrats received more overall votes than the Republicans in Congress did, but due to gerrymandering by Republicans, Republicans retained more seats. What goes around comes around so don't plan on keeping those seats very long.
Here's the editorial from the Washington Post (Exactly the same except for the "missing" information.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/puttin...

The VERY first paragraph says:

"AS THE FISCAL cliff looms, leaders in Washington draw red lines. President Obama is “asking the wealthiest to pay a little more in taxes,” as he repeated Friday. House Speaker John A. Boehner is “open” to more revenue but

*****only in exchange for significant spending cuts — and raising existing tax rates is “unacceptable,” the Ohio Republican insisted."

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