Doctors need to be put in check!!!
For the record

Beckley, WV

#84 Feb 12, 2013
Some of you are real fools about drug addiction. You think if you fight a little harder then the war on drugs will work. You don't have a clue. You perpetuate the problem.
In case you don't get it, the answer to addiction is treatment, not punishment. Who in the hell tries to get addicted?

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#85 Feb 13, 2013
For the record wrote:
Some of you are real fools about drug addiction. You think if you fight a little harder then the war on drugs will work. You don't have a clue. You perpetuate the problem.
In case you don't get it, the answer to addiction is treatment, not punishment. Who in the hell tries to get addicted?
Clueless young people who think they are smoking a joint or having a drink when they start this crap, that's who..

There are plenty of people who became addicted to pills who had NO problem with pain, etc. before they started pills.

There should be NO punishment for those who push this crap on other people, sell it to them, and create scores of others who rob from others and even worse?...ALL of the above is a CRIME!
For the record

Beckley, WV

#86 Feb 13, 2013
Addiction is a health issue. Period. They should be treated no differently because of the means they got there.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#87 Feb 13, 2013
For the record wrote:
Addiction is a health issue. Period. They should be treated no differently because of the means they got there.
No it isn't when the "addiction" is caused by someone else pushing or selling the addicting agent to others..
A person who is addicted isn't necessesarily a criminal because they have an addiction, but the criminal acts many commit on others to fund their addiction IS...
When someone gives "pills' or sells pills to others creating addicts, that is a criminal act.

A person who gets drunk and beats his wife (for example) is committing a crime, whether he is drunk or not...It's STILL a crime..
"I was drunk" isn't an excuse or defense.

A drug addict entering your home, stealing your goods, and hocking them at the nearest pawn shop is a criminal..How they got to be a criminal is most definitely germane to the point.
1 post removed

“One fish... Two fish... ”

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Opportunity is everywhere

#89 Feb 13, 2013
Shootist wrote:
<quoted text> When someone gives "pills' or sells pills to others creating addicts, that is a criminal act.
No you are wrong. If you are referring to prescription drugs that were "given" by a licensed physician, and "sold" by a licensed pharmacist to a patient in accordance with established standards of care. Neither one can be held out to be a criminal if the patient becomes addicted, especially when the addiction is the result of misuse by the patient. Class II narcotics by FDA standards include warning labels AND instructions. Written instructions include the maximum frequency and amount to be taken.

“One fish... Two fish... ”

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Opportunity is everywhere

#90 Feb 13, 2013
Shootist wrote:
<quoted text>
There are plenty of people who became addicted to pills who had NO problem with pain, etc. before they started pills.
That same statement could be said about alcohol. Nobody ever starts out intending to become an addict.
Level 7

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#91 Feb 13, 2013
It seems a drug addict cannot take responsibility for their own behavior and some people won't let them. Doctors don't show up at people's houses or places of employment and force them to take a prescription, then force them to go to a pharmacy and get it filled, then go home (hopefully) and take the meds. It ALL starts with patients showing up at a doctor, advanced practice registered nurse, PA's office and doing their song and dance routine to get drugs. Many of these addicts were made addicts by their parents using drugs while pregnant, or in the case of some drugs, the man's use of some drugs can permanently damage the telomeres so the sperm is damaged. The damage is not specific to prescription drugs either. OTC drugs can cause harm. If a baby misses this exposure, some people drink and drug and smoke(whick is a drug) around their children without regard to exposure of young lungs. So, doctors are the last line in the blame chain.
Brian

Glen Carbon, IL

#92 Feb 13, 2013
I have taken percosets for ...omg ...5 years now.
I am not addicted. I take trhem when I need them and on perscription renewal date I didpose of the unused ones. I take them "as needed" per the label. Let me tell you some times I need the ($^(^@) things...other times I make do.
Doctors do not addict you in most cases...people do it to themselves

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#93 Feb 13, 2013
Natalie_ wrote:
<quoted text>
No you are wrong. If you are referring to prescription drugs that were "given" by a licensed physician, and "sold" by a licensed pharmacist to a patient in accordance with established standards of care. Neither one can be held out to be a criminal if the patient becomes addicted, especially when the addiction is the result of misuse by the patient. Class II narcotics by FDA standards include warning labels AND instructions. Written instructions include the maximum frequency and amount to be taken.
So, but, and?

How does that differ from what I posted..

IF I get pain meds and give or sell them to someone, I am creating an addict and committing a crime...The person is not blameless here either.

Your IF's are correct, in your first sentence, but that isn't what's happening is it?

IF a bullfrog had wings he wouldn't be bumping his "A" all of the time would he?

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#94 Feb 13, 2013
Natalie_ wrote:
<quoted text>
That same statement could be said about alcohol. Nobody ever starts out intending to become an addict.
True, but SOME people are alcoholics from the first drink they drink.. Is that not so?

Other's can develope an addiction for alcohol later of course, but the overwhelming majority never do..

PILLS.. I am talking about are addicting to everyone if they are abused and sometimes if they aren't abused...Plus, Alcohol doesn't require a Doctor to be be a pusher:)

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#95 Feb 13, 2013
Brian wrote:
I have taken percosets for ...omg ...5 years now.
I am not addicted. I take trhem when I need them and on perscription renewal date I didpose of the unused ones. I take them "as needed" per the label. Let me tell you some times I need the ($^(^@) things...other times I make do.
Doctors do not addict you in most cases...people do it to themselves
From what I have read, YOU definitely need them and take them as intended... You are NOT one of those I speak of:)

“One fish... Two fish... ”

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Opportunity is everywhere

#96 Feb 13, 2013
Shootist wrote:
<quoted text>So, but, and?
How does that differ from what I posted..
IF I get pain meds and give or sell them to someone, I am creating an addict and committing a crime...The person is not blameless here either.
Your IF's are correct, in your first sentence, but that isn't what's happening is it?
IF a bullfrog had wings he wouldn't be bumping his "A" all of the time would he?
I cannot make sense out of anything you've been posting on this thread recently, the above comment included.

Yes, my "IF's" were correct. The rest of your comment is babble.

“One fish... Two fish... ”

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Opportunity is everywhere

#97 Feb 13, 2013
Shootist wrote:
<quoted text>True, but SOME people are alcoholics from the first drink they drink.. Is that not so?
No.
Shootist wrote:
<quoted text>
PILLS.. I am talking about are addicting to everyone if they are abused and sometimes if they aren't abused...Plus, Alcohol doesn't require a Doctor to be be a pusher:)
Of course opioids are addictive (especially when abused). Just in case you were not warned of that by your doctor or pharmacist, there are FDA warning labels on the product itself. Nobody is arguing that they are not. The difference is YOU want to criminalize doctors--my question is WHY--just have the FDA ban the sale if these products have no legitimate purpose.

Wouldn't that be the logical approach? Why even put physicians in the position of having to decide who really needs it, and who should go without.

BTW--I don't believe I've ever had a bartender serve me a drink with either a verbal addiction caution OR a written warning label pasted to the glass. Nor does the DEA track alcohol consumption by consumer. Maybe they should.

“One fish... Two fish... ”

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Opportunity is everywhere

#98 Feb 13, 2013
Shootist wrote:
<quoted text>From what I have read, YOU definitely need them and take them as intended... You are NOT one of those I speak of:)
How do you know he's not addicted... because he says so? How do you know he's not selling or giving away excess pills between those refills? What if someone steals them from him... isn't that just going to "make another addict" that his doctor is responsible for creating?

It's so comforting to know that YOU believe he DEFINITELY NEEDS them and takes them as intended.

I suggest you write an article for JAMA on how YOU can tell the legitimate patient from the pillhead.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#99 Feb 13, 2013
Natalie_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot make sense out of anything you've been posting on this thread recently, the above comment included.
Yes, my "IF's" were correct. The rest of your comment is babble.
What is to understand about what I am saying?

A Doctor prescribes "pills"...Addicting pills, to someone.

They take the pills according to directions and for not too long a period...then everything is hunky dory.

That isn't what is going on in epidemic proportions is it?.. People, in many instances are SELLING some of the pills to other people..Some even give them away to start with...Classic DOPE DEALER..

Don't give me the regulation; blah, blah, blah, nonsense.. I know better:)

SOME younger people get them from unsavory characters to get high on, LIKE some did with alcohol or marijuana, AND get hooked on the pills...What is so hard to get about that?

People who get hooked, lie, bum and STEAL to support their habit do they not?

I could go on and on but I think you should get the picture by now.
You're position seems to be, ONLY those with life threatening diseases or pain is getting these things and all are taking them exactly the way prescribed.

IF you were even in the ballpark of being correct, we would have NO or not nearly the amount of addicts we do have..
Do the math here.. there are too many pills on the market and there are too many doctors, prescribing or "dispensing" these pills for things they shouldn't... Isn't that what the ABC story I posted said?

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#100 Feb 13, 2013
Natalie_ wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
<quoted text>
Of course opioids are addictive (especially when abused). Just in case you were not warned of that by your doctor or pharmacist, there are FDA warning labels on the product itself. Nobody is arguing that they are not. The difference is YOU want to criminalize doctors--my question is WHY--just have the FDA ban the sale if these products have no legitimate purpose.
Wouldn't that be the logical approach? Why even put physicians in the position of having to decide who really needs it, and who should go without.
BTW--I don't believe I've ever had a bartender serve me a drink with either a verbal addiction caution OR a written warning label pasted to the glass. Nor does the DEA track alcohol consumption by consumer. Maybe they should.
YES some people ARE alcoholics from the first drink they take..That's a FACT..You are wrong:)

I'm not criminalizing Doctors in general, though I am others....They aren't God you know.. They are human like the rest of us.
You don't believe some Doctors may get incentives from drug companies to prescribe certain medications?.. How naive of you:)

The FDA banning them?.... I'm for that except in extreme cases or cancer..Things like that, I agree with...PUT that isn't WHO is getting them entirely.
I can't believe you are so blind you can't see the affect these pills are having on our entire society, and wish to defend the abuse of them, because that is what you are doing.

Doctors prescribing them?.. Why should they be in the position of prescribing them?...They are supposed to be the one's with the brains concerning health issues aren't they?
Who else should make the decisions?...Joe the barber, Jim the Lawyer, Mary the school teacher?:)

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#101 Feb 13, 2013
Natalie_ wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know he's not addicted... because he says so? How do you know he's not selling or giving away excess pills between those refills? What if someone steals them from him... isn't that just going to "make another addict" that his doctor is responsible for creating?
It's so comforting to know that YOU believe he DEFINITELY NEEDS them and takes them as intended.
I suggest you write an article for JAMA on how YOU can tell the legitimate patient from the pillhead.
LOL.. talk about reaching for a point here:)

I don't know the man and considering we're are posting on an open venue, and we don't know his real identity, he can tell the truth or lie through his teeth.

He did explain previously what he took them for and that was a category I agreed with.. Were'nt you paying attention:)

If he was lying, then liar, liar, pants on fire to him:)

I can only go by what he says HERE

“Ain't you got a jack?”

Level 5

Since: Nov 11

Deepest Darkest Appalachia

#102 Feb 13, 2013
Brian wrote:
I have taken percosets for ...omg ...5 years now.
I am not addicted. I take trhem when I need them and on perscription renewal date I didpose of the unused ones. I take them "as needed" per the label. Let me tell you some times I need the ($^(^@) things...other times I make do.
Doctors do not addict you in most cases...people do it to themselves
No, not everyone on addictive substances become addicted. You just get to walk around, assuming you *can* walk, with the stigma associated with taking them. Unfortunately, for some, "as needed" can become all the time. What are you supposed to do, though? I mean, if you need it, you need it. Physical dependence is just an unfortunate side effect for many, and they're the ones who suffer because of elective drug addicts...that's why I was saying, "prove it".

“One fish... Two fish... ”

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Opportunity is everywhere

#103 Feb 13, 2013
Shootist wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.. talk about reaching for a point here:)
I don't know the man and considering we're are posting on an open venue, and we don't know his real identity, he can tell the truth or lie through his teeth.
He did explain previously what he took them for and that was a category I agreed with.. Were'nt you paying attention:)
If he was lying, then liar, liar, pants on fire to him:)
I can only go by what he says HERE
As can only his doctor, to a large extent, rely on what he says in his office. His doctor has no idea if he's been taking his medication, or selling it or giving it away. His doctor has no idea if his pain is extreme, severe or moderate. His doctor has no idea if he's storing it securely at home or if it is sitting out on his kitchen counter. In short, his doctor has as much information as YOU do on these things.

However, YOU are DEFINITELY SURE Brian has needed auto refills on a Class II drug for the past five years.

Yet the doctor who relies on his patient's honesty, is a criminal "drug pusher" when it turns out the patient's been lying through his teeth.

Is that correct?
Level 7

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#104 Feb 13, 2013
I know several reputable doctors who do random drug screenings on all patients who are prescribed any schedule II drugs by that doctor. The patient signs agreement to this stipulation prior to the first prescription and during each subsequent visit. So, if someone is diverting their drugs by selling/trading, etc, then they will not have the right concentration of that drug in their urine when tested and may have other drugs not prescribed. It does not erradicate all drug diversion by a patient, but it does catch some.

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