Stop teaching erroneous creationism t...

Level 4

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#190 Sep 2, 2012
Let's face it folks...I have seen many debates on here on this subject and truth is no one is going to change the other's mind. By the time we are adults our opinions are formed and that is that.

Laying aside religious and scientific points of view, let's look at this from a objective point of view.

In reality it takes more faith to believe that this universe, the world and all the living things in it, were brought about by chance. Do you realize the mathematical requirements for all of this to happen by chance? It is far more easier to believe in an intelligent design and a creator.

As far as Christians arguing about this with people who REFUSE to see your viewpoint (I am guilty of this myself) but want you to swallow theirs I say, shame on you!! Here's why...

1 Timothy 6:20-21 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen."
Bill-y

Ogden, AR

#191 Sep 2, 2012
If no damned body on here agrees with any other bodies then this entire thing has been a ludricrous debate.

Billy

Level 2

Since: May 12

Greensboro, NC

#192 Sep 2, 2012
There is no sense in telling children that Nothing + Noone
= all of creation .
That is just too much for any adult to really believe.
The greatest minds on earth are smart enough to realize that we humans are not the greatest of all creation.
Nor did we have to do with the creation of all things
Children are better to learn. There is a God. and He created all that is. Because we cannot duplicate creation , we try to figure it out,but we only have ideas and theories.
You cannot proove that God didn't create the world, and all in it.
No matter how smart you think you are....... The truth is
IN THE BEGINNING ...... GOD
and thats the truth.

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#193 Sep 2, 2012
turdledove wrote:
There is no sense in telling children that Nothing + Noone
= all of creation .
That is just too much for any adult to really believe.
The greatest minds on earth are smart enough to realize that we humans are not the greatest of all creation.
Nor did we have to do with the creation of all things
Children are better to learn. There is a God. and He created all that is. Because we cannot duplicate creation , we try to figure it out,but we only have ideas and theories.
You cannot proove that God didn't create the world, and all in it.
No matter how smart you think you are....... The truth is
IN THE BEGINNING ...... GOD
and thats the truth.
Actually the truth is your statement is a classic example of an uneducated opinion stated as an absolute truth. I can only assume you simply have no interest in truth.

If you really want to have some fun, google "logical fallacies" and see just how many you made in the above post.
It is a gold mine.

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#194 Sep 2, 2012
Anon77 wrote:
Let's face it folks...I have seen many debates on here on this subject and truth is no one is going to change the other's mind. By the time we are adults our opinions are formed and that is that.
The dramatic increase in the number of ex-believers indicates people are, in fact, changing their minds. In droves. In fact the vast majority of atheists and agnostics were once believers. "Non religion" is the 3rd largest group (by a very small percentage) behind Christianity and Islam.
Anon77 wrote:
Laying aside religious and scientific points of view, let's look at this from a objective point of view.
In reality it takes more faith to believe that this universe, the world and all the living things in it, were brought about by chance. Do you realize the mathematical requirements for all of this to happen by chance? It is far more easier to believe in an intelligent design and a creator.[QUOTE]

I'm sorry but that view point is anything but objective. The amount of faith it requires to believe something has absolutely no bearing on its underlying validity. None.

Your statement about the mathematical odds of all this happening by chance are also irrelevant to the truth. If you shuffle a deck of a billion cards, what are the odds they'll end up in exactly the order they do? Beyond astronomical. Should I now believe they're magic or the order was designed by a creator?

Further, if you're having difficulty accepting the odds of imperfect life being random chance, how do you reconcile the odds of an all perfect entity being random chance?

[QUOTE who="Anon77"]
As far as Christians arguing about this with people who REFUSE to see your viewpoint (I am guilty of this myself) but want you to swallow theirs I say, shame on you!! Here's why...
1 Timothy 6:20-21 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen."
I find it a bit preposterous when people argue that having logical reasoned arguments is an exercise in futility, and then throw out scripture to prove a point. As if Timothy 6:20 is some nugget of greatness that no one has seen before your posting.

Seems intellectually lazy.
police one

Ardsley, NY

#195 Sep 2, 2012
Well there ya go wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the truth is your statement is a classic example of an uneducated opinion stated as an absolute truth. I can only assume you simply have no interest in truth.
If you really want to have some fun, google "logical fallacies" and see just how many you made in the above post.
It is a gold mine.
I'm afraid that one day not to distant in the future, you and many others are going to realize in about 3 seconds how wrong you really are. Good luck and god bless!

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#196 Sep 2, 2012
Anon77 wrote:
Laying aside religious and scientific points of view, let's look at this from a objective point of view.
In reality it takes more faith to believe that this universe, the world and all the living things in it, were brought about by chance. Do you realize the mathematical requirements for all of this to happen by chance? It is far more easier to believe in an intelligent design and a creator.
I'm sorry but that view point is anything but objective. The amount of faith it requires to believe something has absolutely no bearing on its underlying validity. None.

Your statement about the mathematical odds of all this happening by chance are also irrelevant to the truth. If you shuffle a deck of a billion cards, what are the odds they'll end up in exactly the order they do? Beyond astronomical. Should I now believe they're magic or the order was designed by a creator?

Further, if you're having difficulty accepting the odds of imperfect life being random chance, how do you reconcile the odds of an all perfect entity being random chance?

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#197 Sep 2, 2012
police one wrote:
<quoted text>I'm afraid that one day not to distant in the future, you and many others are going to realize in about 3 seconds how wrong you really are. Good luck and god bless!
Oh yeah? Tell me more.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#198 Sep 2, 2012
Well there ya go wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry but that view point is anything but objective. The amount of faith it requires to believe something has absolutely no bearing on its underlying validity. None.
Your statement about the mathematical odds of all this happening by chance are also irrelevant to the truth. If you shuffle a deck of a billion cards, what are the odds they'll end up in exactly the order they do? Beyond astronomical. Should I now believe they're magic or the order was designed by a creator?
Further, if you're having difficulty accepting the odds of imperfect life being random chance, how do you reconcile the odds of an all perfect entity being random chance?
LOL.. I was going to stay out of this discussion because I had nothing more to add to it, but I'll just jump in and then jump right out again:)

"Your statement about the mathematical odds of all this happening by chance are also irrelevant to the truth. If you shuffle a deck of a billion cards, what are the odds they'll end up in exactly the order they do? Beyond astronomical. Should I now believe they're magic or the order was designed by a creator?"

His statement is most definitely relevant to the truth....The rest of your statement only confirmed the truth of what he did state..

The odds are "astronomical?"..You will believe astronomical odds against a God can occur but you don't think astronomical odds FOR a God can occur?....Starting to get a little weak in your argument aren't you?:)

"Should I now believe they're magic or the order was designed by a creator?".. Why not, you're the one giving him as good as odds that he doesn't?:)

"Further, if you're having difficulty accepting the odds of imperfect life being random chance, how do you reconcile the odds of an all perfect entity being random chance?"
Again, the odds aren't any better in the other direction of "shit happens".)

Personally, I feel you made his argument for him and considering every post you have made is to discredit the existence of such and entity, you have had an do have an agenda to begin with, therefore, YOU, yourself haven't been OBJECTIVE from the first words out of your keyboard.. Just saying:)

P.S... I'll now leave again for awhile:)
it is I

Oak Hill, WV

#199 Sep 2, 2012
Well there ya go wrote:
<quoted text>
What bothers me is your comment suggests evolution is some sort of philosophy. It's not. It is a fact. It is supported with hard science. Not words, but actual physical data. To suggest it be a "choice" is akin to suggesting we have children choose if the Earth revolves around the Sun. Which is ludicrous.
The fact that you don't understand evolution is not offensive, but it is disheartening. Darwin published Origin of Species 153 years ago (and feared for his life). Yet you don't accept evolution w/ equal certainty as you accept the earth revolving around the sun. Why is that?
Galileo discovered the Sun is the center of our solar system and received a life sentence for his troubles. Imagine discovering some world changing truth that would significantly advance the human race and be jailed rather than admired. It certainly wasn't the scientists that imprisoned him and refused to "choose" the truth. Refused to allow humanity the information. It was the religious. The blindly faithful. The willfully ignorant. They couldn't prove him wrong (because he was right), they just "believed" he was wrong. How stupid is that?
You live in a time when evolution is actually taught in school and you still were persuaded to ignore it. Worse yet, you're not alone.
You read a whole lot of things into what I said, and I did not say those things, or imply them. I was talking about parents responsibility to teach kids to think. I guess you want robots turned out of our schools. Fine for your kids. I would rather see some come out with the ability to think, to reason, to make decisions based on knowledge and faith, yes, both things. Either way they believe is fine with me. Fine with me how you believe. You really like to lump people into groups that make you feel better about your beliefs. I love science, I hate to see the loss of our space program, I read constantly on the new advances in medicine. My mom and many in our family, though not doctors where RN's, paramedics. I never had that opportunity, but it fascinates me. I cannot help it with your bigoted attitude towards those who will not follow lockstep with what you want them to believe. That is sad in our day.

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#200 Sep 2, 2012
Shootist wrote:
<quoted text>"Your statement about the mathematical odds of all this happening by chance are also irrelevant to the truth. If you shuffle a deck of a billion cards, what are the odds they'll end up in exactly the order they do? Beyond astronomical. Should I now believe they're magic or the order was designed by a creator?"

His statement is most definitely relevant to the truth....The rest of your statement only confirmed the truth of what he did state..
The odds are "astronomical?"..You will believe astronomical odds against a God can occur but you don't think astronomical odds FOR a God can occur?....Starting to get a little weak in your argument aren't you?:)
Huh? Don't run off. Lets flesh this out. I don't follow your argument.

The poster pulls a god out of his arse to explain an event that he claims defies astrological odds. So I gave an example using cards to illustrate an astronomical odds defying event. Why not inject a god into that event? Or is god injection random?

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#201 Sep 3, 2012
Stop telling parents what to teach their kids.
police one

Ardsley, NY

#202 Sep 3, 2012
Well there ya go wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yeah? Tell me more.
You know exactly what I mean, there is no reason to tell you more.

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#203 Sep 3, 2012
it is I wrote:
<quoted text>
You read a whole lot of things into what I said, and I did not say those things, or imply them. I was talking about parents responsibility to teach kids to think. I guess you want robots turned out of our schools. Fine for your kids. I would rather see some come out with the ability to think, to reason, to make decisions based on knowledge and faith, yes, both things. Either way they believe is fine with me. Fine with me how you believe. You really like to lump people into groups that make you feel better about your beliefs. I love science, I hate to see the loss of our space program, I read constantly on the new advances in medicine. My mom and many in our family, though not doctors where RN's, paramedics. I never had that opportunity, but it fascinates me. I cannot help it with your bigoted attitude towards those who will not follow lockstep with what you want them to believe. That is sad in our day.
I probably did. My apologies.

“Ain't you got a jack?”

Level 5

Since: Nov 11

Deepest Darkest Appalachia

#204 Sep 3, 2012
When was evolution proven? All aspects of it, that is. Maybe they made that announcement during the power outage and that's why we all haven't heard about it. Anyway, I don't care what anyone says. I will remain steadfast in my beliefs, just as the non-believers will in theirs. One question though: if Stephen Hawking made an announcement that he'd met God and He is real, would you change your mind then?

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#205 Sep 3, 2012
Super Nifty Name wrote:
Anyway, I don't care what anyone says. I will remain steadfast in my beliefs,
Well that's just idiotic. And proudly stated too. Congrats! You just won the "I'm too dumb to know I just called myself dumb" award!!

And no, a testimonial wouldn't change my mind. Evidence would though. If a testimonial is enough to make you a believer, I'd strongly suggest you stay away from late night infomercials.

“ad hominem = ignorance”

Level 4

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#206 Sep 4, 2012
I read earlier in this thread that someone stated that you can "Throw Out" all the fossil records and that evolution can be proven without them. I would like to hear more about this seeing as it only through the investigation of such fossils that evolutionists say species evolve into completely different species.

BTW Wikipedia is NOT a source for legitimate data, and anyone can edit and change anything written in it.:)
Bill-y

Ogden, AR

#207 Sep 4, 2012
Intelligence and common sense would tell you that.

Billy
Bill-y

Ogden, AR

#208 Sep 4, 2012
SIGH-as much as I dislike you I am not attacking you.

The "fossils" you talk about Matt,fall under the category of Physical Anthropology. There is another field in Anthropology,Matt. It is called "Cultural Anthropology". Evolution can be clearly proven by that alone.

Billy
Bill-y

Ogden, AR

#209 Sep 4, 2012
This "Cultural Anthropology",Matt,has been studied since before the advent of reading and writing. Have you only read the Bible? Have you never read Socrates,Aristotle,any of the great thinkers back in antiquity?
Cultural Anthropology was being discussed then.

Billy

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