Economy is looking good

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#61 Apr 6, 2013
Food stamp has doubled under Obama because so many people have lost their jobs and because the jobs avilable don't pay enough to keep workers out of poverty. Is this Obama's fault? I don't think so. Middle income workers have been losing ground for the past 30 years and it's really coming home to roost now when other jobs have disappeared. I know several wealthy people who are getting their products from China because it's cheaper and they don't give a damn about their own country. That kind of person makes me sick to my stomach.

I will never vote again for Nick Rahall because of his kowtowing to the gun sellers, and if Manchin votes against background checks for gun owners I will never again vote for him. It might not put them out of congress but at least I can feel good about my vote. They're supposed to be Democrats but they're sure not acting like it.
capitalist pig

Beckley, WV

#62 Apr 6, 2013
Lesson Learned wrote:
Food stamp has doubled under Obama because so many people have lost their jobs and because the jobs avilable don't pay enough to keep workers out of poverty. Is this Obama's fault? I don't think so. Middle income workers have been losing ground for the past 30 years and it's really coming home to roost now when other jobs have disappeared. I know several wealthy people who are getting their products from China because it's cheaper and they don't give a damn about their own country. That kind of person makes me sick to my stomach.
I will never vote again for Nick Rahall because of his kowtowing to the gun sellers, and if Manchin votes against background checks for gun owners I will never again vote for him. It might not put them out of congress but at least I can feel good about my vote. They're supposed to be Democrats but they're sure not acting like it.
how are wealthy people buying products from china because they are cheaper any different than ordinary people buying products from china because they are cheaper. I see union people all the time driving their toyotas to walmart. Rahall will be like Byrd, he will still be there three years after he is dead.
I noticed that you just skipped over the fact that food stamp use has increased as the unemployment has gone down.
1 post removed

“Pissed off underwater tiger.”

Level 6

Since: Apr 12

Imitated but never duplicated

#64 Apr 6, 2013
capitalist pig wrote:
<quoted text>
how are wealthy people buying products from china because they are cheaper any different than ordinary people buying products from china because they are cheaper. I see union people all the time driving their toyotas to walmart. Rahall will be like Byrd, he will still be there three years after he is dead.
I noticed that you just skipped over the fact that food stamp use has increased as the unemployment has gone down.
Sorry to interject.

The difference is responsibility of ones role in how the system is intended to work.

Those expected to subsist on the economic fringes can be forgiven for succumbing to the use of necessary evils as for them there is no other alternative.

However those who exist in abundance who still chose to not use that abundance to help support their countrymen are reneging their place in that economic cycle of life serving only to make it that much harder for everyone to exist.

Nothing can trickle down if it is caught in a bucket to be re purposed elsewhere. Facts too often forgotten by those who would condemn those enduring the drought below who would have the audacity to ask for water.
2 posts removed
capitalist pig

Beckley, WV

#67 Apr 7, 2013
VirVoX Populi wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to interject.
The difference is responsibility of ones role in how the system is intended to work.
Those expected to subsist on the economic fringes can be forgiven for succumbing to the use of necessary evils as for them there is no other alternative.
However those who exist in abundance who still chose to not use that abundance to help support their countrymen are reneging their place in that economic cycle of life serving only to make it that much harder for everyone to exist.
Nothing can trickle down if it is caught in a bucket to be re purposed elsewhere. Facts too often forgotten by those who would condemn those enduring the drought below who would have the audacity to ask for water.
Where is it written that anyone has the responsibility to help support others with the fruits of their labor. That is a moral responsibility and not a legal or economic principal. The sole purpose of a corporation is to make a profit for the stockholders.
As for those who buy cheap products from China, they sell those products to Americans who buy them at a cheaper price than things made in America. Buying cheap foreign goods has kept down inflation which helps those at the lower rung of the ladder.
That being said, I hate the fact that we buy so much from China. I believe in Fortress America. We became a great nation by making great products and selling them to each other and then selling what was left over to the rest of the world; however, that world no longer exists. We now have a world economy run by multinational corporations who buy our politicians the way you or I would buy a can of soda.

“Pissed off underwater tiger.”

Level 6

Since: Apr 12

Imitated but never duplicated

#68 Apr 7, 2013
capitalist pig wrote:
<quoted text>

As for those who buy cheap products from China, they sell those products to Americans who buy them at a cheaper price than things made in America. Buying cheap foreign goods has kept down inflation which helps those at the lower rung of the ladder.
See what you said is all well and good, except you are missing the most important point here as illustrated in this quote. If the wealthy buys cheap products from China in order to sell to Americans it takes away the demand for an American produced product, in effect killing American jobs, pushing those on the lower rung off the ladder completely and stopping them from having any money to buy those cheaper products at all.

That is a part of every system, not just economic. You cant make an omelet if you catch and remove the egg between the point its cracked and it falls in the bowl. So too can you not remove economic assets from the system entirely and expect the system to continue to function.

You are incorrect in this. The ends do not justify the means. Inflation has continued on unabated and unhindered

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70yearsofpric...

To think it would have been worse is speculation at best and closer to delusion at its worst.

So there is no rational way to justify this, especially when out of the same mouth you hear the complaint of people need to go out there and get a job and pay their own way. How can you resolve being against a problem and supporting the cause of the problem?
capitalist pig

Beckley, WV

#69 Apr 7, 2013
VirVoX Populi wrote:
<quoted text>
See what you said is all well and good, except you are missing the most important point here as illustrated in this quote. If the wealthy buys cheap products from China in order to sell to Americans it takes away the demand for an American produced product, in effect killing American jobs, pushing those on the lower rung off the ladder completely and stopping them from having any money to buy those cheaper products at all.
That is a part of every system, not just economic. You cant make an omelet if you catch and remove the egg between the point its cracked and it falls in the bowl. So too can you not remove economic assets from the system entirely and expect the system to continue to function.
You are incorrect in this. The ends do not justify the means. Inflation has continued on unabated and unhindered
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70yearsofpric...
To think it would have been worse is speculation at best and closer to delusion at its worst.
So there is no rational way to justify this, especially when out of the same mouth you hear the complaint of people need to go out there and get a job and pay their own way. How can you resolve being against a problem and supporting the cause of the problem?
You seem to be missing a very big point. products did not start getting made in China and other low wage countrys overnight. More and more products were made in china becasue Americans were buying them and American products could not compete. It was not the capitalist who forced products to be made overseas, it was the American consumer. Americans more than willing to sell out their fellow workers by saving a few cents on items made in China. Only in the past few years have I finally quit calling China, Red China. I refused to buy products made in China and still resist as much as possible.
One bright spot for the American Economy might be natural gas.(if the damn communist, american hating tree huggers dont screw that up too). Companies are actually bringing jobs back to America and lower energy costs of natural gas may make more of that happen.
You can cry all the tears you want for the so called working man, but the proven fact remains, they will buy the cheapest product, no matter what god forsaken hell part of the world that it is made in.

“Pissed off underwater tiger.”

Level 6

Since: Apr 12

Imitated but never duplicated

#70 Apr 7, 2013
capitalist pig wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be missing a very big point. products did not start getting made in China and other low wage countrys overnight. More and more products were made in china becasue Americans were buying them and American products could not compete. It was not the capitalist who forced products to be made overseas, it was the American consumer. Americans more than willing to sell out their fellow workers by saving a few cents on items made in China. Only in the past few years have I finally quit calling China, Red China. I refused to buy products made in China and still resist as much as possible.
One bright spot for the American Economy might be natural gas.(if the damn communist, american hating tree huggers dont screw that up too). Companies are actually bringing jobs back to America and lower energy costs of natural gas may make more of that happen.
You can cry all the tears you want for the so called working man, but the proven fact remains, they will buy the cheapest product, no matter what god forsaken hell part of the world that it is made in.
And again your not seeing the entire picture. No manufacturing didnt move to China and telecom to India overnight. But was it the American consumer that bought and paid for legislation neutering tariffs and other economic roadblocks?

Its not chicken and the egg, Its simply a matter of looking to see who launched the first salvo in class warfare.

Was it the American consumer buying cheap imported products? Or was it the American businessman who saw people buying products from foreign exporters that had to deal with financial roadblocks and got jealous and figured out how to turn it to their advantage in order to start reselling those imported products themselves?

Yet you say thats just the way it is. You understand that is a defeatist mentality. We have the capacity to work to change things at any time we want, if we dont fall prey to naysayers who dupe us into thinking that the situation is hopeless and the only choice we have to remain faithful to the locust system that has already failed us and will always fail because it is unsustainable.

“One fish... Two fish... ”

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Opportunity is everywhere

#71 Apr 7, 2013
capitalist pig wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be missing a very big point. products did not start getting made in China and other low wage countrys overnight. More and more products were made in china becasue Americans were buying them and American products could not compete. It was not the capitalist who forced products to be made overseas, it was the American consumer. Americans more than willing to sell out their fellow workers by saving a few cents on items made in China.

You can cry all the tears you want for the so called working man, but the proven fact remains, they will buy the cheapest product, no matter what god forsaken hell part of the world that it is made in.
You're saying that it's OK if Americans have less money, because products cost less? Then why is the cost of living in America going up, as opposed to down?

How much can a pair of Nikes cost to produce when you are paying your labor force $5 a day with no bathroom breaks? Are those low costs really being passed down to consumers in terms of pricing? Isn't the real benefit going to the bottom line of the corporation and its shareholders?

To characterize the outsourcing of jobs as being purely "consumer driven" ignores economic reality. Corporations and their stockholders have profited immensely, that's why wealth has become so concentrated to a small segment of the American population.
Ron

Washington, DC

#72 Apr 7, 2013
Lesson Learned wrote:
Jobs created in February - 236,000
Unemployment rate 7.7%
Stockmarket at record highs
It appears the fatcats who have been hoarding their money have realized that Obama is here for another 4 years so they can't wait any longer to fatten their bank accounts by creating jobs for the poor and middle class. God bless them, we poor folk are so lucky to have such benefactors.
You do realize unemployment is based off whose drawing unemployment not whose actually working right? As for Wallstreet they were saved/fattened by our socialist el presidentes; I include GW Bush in this as well not just Obama. Fact is if Bush hadn't created TARP Obama couldn't have gotten away with his bail outs, because bitching bout "liberal" Obama is pointless when "conservative" Bush does the same things. And 200,000 job growth is good but how many of those jobs are private sector?

Look its simple the government (all governments state and federal are paid from taxes) police, politicians and all the people on a government check are paid from taxes coming in. Hiring a civilian plumber to fix a sink still uses taxes paid to the government so how many out of 200,000 jobs are government funded. Because with the exception of getting off the couch its little different then welfare in the source aspects and does nothing for the economy.
dunadd

Greensboro, NC

#73 Apr 8, 2013
a large portion of lumber used in manufacturing in China comes from US and Canada. plus the fact the Chinese are beginning to realise the importance of American creativeness and manufacturing. A Chinese owned furniture manufacturing company is opening up a 47,000 sq foot manufacturing facility at Ringgold, Virginia east of Danville. A granddaughter of mine is warehouse manager of a Chinese owned furniture warehouse in High Point, North Carolina. the top two in the office are Chinese, the rest of the office crew and entire warehouse crew/drivers are American. everything has not been imported to China. it's a two way street. The Chinese are realising it is more economical to pay higher American wages than making it in China and shipping it. the Chinese entrepreneurs and business people are capitalists, in it to make money and if that means bringing the jobs to America, so be it.

Since: Aug 12

Beckley, WV

#74 Apr 8, 2013
Can we start something called .....oh i don't know......Made in America?

“Pissed off underwater tiger.”

Level 6

Since: Apr 12

Imitated but never duplicated

#75 Apr 8, 2013
JamieWV wrote:
Can we start something called .....oh i don't know......Made in America?
Im all for that, but its far from that simple. You have to cure the disease before you can release the patient into the general populous.

The most severe vector driving this is electronics and advancement and the capitalistic, consumeristic notion of keeping up with the Jones`. We have electronic devices that have PLANNED obsolecence in a year or less. This consumes precious minerals like gold, silver, and rare earth minerals. We have to somehow balance technological advancements with durability and longevity. If we cannot do that, the only thing that will work is somehow alter human nature to not long for "bigger/smaller, better, faster, stronger, newer" as desirable

If you do not address that first, trying to correct the failings of a system based on greed will never work and you will see the same thing we saw in the last major national drive for Made in the USA in the 1980s, which fell by the wayside less than 5 years in and in fact opened the door to where we are now.
Brian

Glen Carbon, IL

#76 Apr 9, 2013
Eliminate welfar eand the minimum wage and jobs will come flocking to the usa.
capitalist pig

Beckley, WV

#77 Apr 9, 2013
Natalie_ wrote:
<quoted text>
You're saying that it's OK if Americans have less money, because products cost less? Then why is the cost of living in America going up, as opposed to down?
How much can a pair of Nikes cost to produce when you are paying your labor force $5 a day with no bathroom breaks? Are those low costs really being passed down to consumers in terms of pricing? Isn't the real benefit going to the bottom line of the corporation and its shareholders?
To characterize the outsourcing of jobs as being purely "consumer driven" ignores economic reality. Corporations and their stockholders have profited immensely, that's why wealth has become so concentrated to a small segment of the American population.
When did I ever suggest that it was OK for Americans to have less money? I certainly dont believe that. The price of a pair of Nikes has nothing to do with the cost of production. That is pure marketing. You can buy a pair of sneakers that are just as good for much less money.
This is a global economy and corporations have to go where they can compete globaly. That is proven by the fact that some corporations are coming back to America, especially for high tech manufacturing. You are ignoring all the comments that I have made stating that I hate the fact that we have a global economy. The fact that I hate it does not change the reality that it exists.
Economics is not your strong suit is it?

“Pissed off underwater tiger.”

Level 6

Since: Apr 12

Imitated but never duplicated

#78 Apr 9, 2013
Eliminate welfar eand the minimum wage and jobs will come flocking to the usa.

For the .... Ok, can someone explain to me how exactly this argument that keeps popping up could possibly be viewed as a good thing?

How can anyone ignore the pair of elephants in the room of
A: a person cannot sustain themselves on Minimum wage.
B: lowering cost of production (IE slave wages) will not cause corporations to lower their prices to accommodate decreased average of wages.
C: Everyone loses when you do this and lower the standard of living.

If I didnt know any better, I would almost think conservatives know this and are basically just wanting to create an economic slave class for them to own.

“One fish... Two fish... ”

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Opportunity is everywhere

#79 Apr 9, 2013
capitalist pig wrote:
<quoted text>
Economics is not your strong suit is it?
Of course it is. You're just too much of a dumb ass to understand.
capitalist pig

Beckley, WV

#80 Apr 9, 2013
Natalie_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it is. You're just too much of a dumb ass to understand.
\

You too often overestimate your intellegence and wit. I understand economics quite well. The fact that you dont know that the price of a pair of Nike tennis shoes is driven by marketing and not the corporate bottom line, proves that you dont know shit from shinola. if your thought process were correct, all sneakers would cost $100.00.
But go ahead and try another smart ass comeback and pat yourself on the back for beig so clever and continue on as a class warrior.
capitalist pig

Beckley, WV

#81 Apr 9, 2013
VirVoX Populi wrote:
<quoted text>
And again your not seeing the entire picture. No manufacturing didnt move to China and telecom to India overnight. But was it the American consumer that bought and paid for legislation neutering tariffs and other economic roadblocks?
Its not chicken and the egg, Its simply a matter of looking to see who launched the first salvo in class warfare.
Was it the American consumer buying cheap imported products? Or was it the American businessman who saw people buying products from foreign exporters that had to deal with financial roadblocks and got jealous and figured out how to turn it to their advantage in order to start reselling those imported products themselves?
Yet you say thats just the way it is. You understand that is a defeatist mentality. We have the capacity to work to change things at any time we want, if we dont fall prey to naysayers who dupe us into thinking that the situation is hopeless and the only choice we have to remain faithful to the locust system that has already failed us and will always fail because it is unsustainable.
You are correct, I do have a bit of a dereatist attitude on this issue, which is unusual for me as I have tilted at many windmills in my lifetime. I don't know an answer as long as most Americans dont know the difference between price and cost.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#82 Apr 9, 2013
Isn't marketing driven by the corporate bottom line??
capitalist pig

Beckley, WV

#83 Apr 9, 2013
Lesson Learned wrote:
Isn't marketing driven by the corporate bottom line??
I guess you are even more dense that natalie.
Of course marketing is driven by the corporate bottom line.
The point was that it costs X number of dollars to make a pair sneakers. Making sneakers is unskilled labor, so they are going to be made where there is plenty of unskilled labor. It does not cost more to make a pair of Nikes, than another sneaker. I can buy a good pair of sneakers for much less than the cost of a pair of Nikes. My youngest son once asked me why I didnt wear Nikes and i explained that i didnt wear Nikes so I could afford for him to wear Nikes. The high cost of a pair of Nikes is the great advertising that Nike has done over the years.
Here is a very simple econimic theory - People make value, what people want or need or think they need creates value. Nike has been so successful that they no longer have to put their name on their product or advertising.

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