Ambulance Collides With Tractor-Trailer While Responding To Crash; EMT Killed

Jan 15, 2013 Full story: WCHS-TV Charleston 248

Bethany Simmons Web Producer: Bethany Simmons Reported: Jan. 15, 2013 9:20 AM EST Updated: Jan.

Full Story
EMS FAN

Beckley, WV

#129 Jan 27, 2013
Insider.........your a piece of work.
Truth

Charleston, WV

#130 Jan 27, 2013
redbone wrote:
<quoted text>
Your wrong on the mandate for 24 hour shifts, DOT has no law on 24 hour shifts. If we had a union here a couple of weeks ago, Mark would probably still be with us! Unions promote safety. Vote for safety, vote UNION!
Currently you are right, there is no mandate on 24 hour shifts from the DOT. However starting July 1st 2014 it is my understanding that will change. Due to studies in fatigue and in the increase in EMS fatalities the DOT will require that EMS agencies do away with 24 hour shifts for all EMS responders. Fire departments are exempt from this as they fall outside the realm of the DOT. Whether or not Jan Care had a union has no bearing on the death of Mark Kinder. If I had turned blue and swelled up I would probably have been a blueberry. Unions do not always mean safety as accidents do occur but one would hope that incidents like this can be avoided by changing the way we work in this field. It is not an issue of union vs non union more a safety issue with the way we force ourselves to the limits of human endurance. It is a horrible thing to lose a co-worker but to use it in this way to promote something this way is opportunistic and wrong. If the employees of Jan Care vote to institute a union I wish them all the best. If they do not then I once again wish them the best. I have friends and family that work there and want them to have the best opportunities and safest work environment.
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#131 Jan 27, 2013
redbone
wife of a medic
EMS FAN

Let me get this straight because I want to make sure I understand your arguments! It's ok for redbone to bring up Kevin and Mark and argue that that they "would still be alive" if JC had had a union, but it's NOT ok for me to respond that he shouldn't exploit their deaths to push his agenda??!! I am the ass?? I'm the parasite?? I'm the piece of work??

My God! I've honestly never seen a more delusional, self-righteous, selfish, egotistical, and twisted group of people in my entire life!!

The three of you are so wrapped up in your desire to "punish" Jan-Care for some perceived wrong, to get the "fair share" you feel you're entitled to, to make them "pay" for all the success they've had, that you have managed to construe and contort your sense of reality to a new level of psychotic. If you are EMS workers for Jan-Care or another company, I question your abilities to provide adequate patient care because of your warped views on the company. At best, you are insane and at worst, dangerous. God help the people to whom you respond!!
NoOne

Charleston, WV

#132 Jan 27, 2013
So sad
Lets face the facts

Beckley, WV

#133 Jan 27, 2013
http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/civil...

On November 18, 2011, in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of California, the Department filed suit against the National Emergency Medical Services Association (NEMSA), located in Modesto, Calif.
The Department alleges that the union failed to hold its regular officer election in June 2011. By failing to allow members to elect their union
officers at least once every three years, as required by Title IV of the LMRDA and the union's constitution, the Department contends that the union violated Sections 401(b) and 401(e) of the LMRDA. To remedy these violations, the Department seeks to supervise an election for vice president, treasurer, and five regional director positions. The lawsuit follows an investigation by the OLMS San Francisco District Office.

NEMSA is a union that has no problem breaking laws and even ignoring the rules of their own constitution. Is this really who you want to be paying to represent you?
Lets face the facts

Beckley, WV

#134 Jan 27, 2013
I found this on a different forum and thought that it should be shared here is the link if you'd like to check out where I found it. http://www.emtcity.com/topic/3918-nemsa-wins-...
The following is a quote from a forum on emtcity.com
This is my first post here, so please go easy on me.
I am a a career Paramedic who has been in EMS for 25 years. I work for a private ambulance company in Sacramento, CA. My company has two divisions, a really small non-emergency one in Sacramento and a rather large 9-1-1 division throughout all of Solano County.
NEMSA came to us about 1.5 years ago. Both divisions voted for and certified NEMSA to represent them individually (rather than together as a single large unit). I started working here just after NEMSA got started in our division.
Everything seemed positive and upward-bound particularly because NEMSA touted their dedication toward EMS needs, which is something LONG overdue for folks like us in the private sector. In the beginning, the union's co-founders, Torren Colcord and Tim Bonifay, along with the vice-president Aaron Pelican, met with us employees directly and rather frequently. The employees and NEMSA drafted a rather impressive contract to propose. Then came the negotiations. In the second full negotiation session, the employer's attorney said they would be standing pat with the terms of the previous union's contract (expired). To my surprise, the NEMSA rep (henceforth Tim Bonifay), quickly acquiesced and we went forward with negotiating a sort of hybrid contract between what we developed and what the company wanted to stick with. The rationale was to obtain a quick settlement as opposed to duking it out over a long period for what we really wanted. This was in particular deference to the fact that our 5% raises in April were postponed (with NO retro) in favor of pursuing a higher percentage NEMSA felt we could get.
Then there was a two-month delay during which-literally-nothing got done. While Tim Bonifay was supposedly out working on fine-tuning our contract negotiating points and getting information regarding insurance, we heard nothing from him. During that period, there was one negotiation meeting scheduled in which he never showed up. No call for heads-up. No email. No nothing. In fact, OUR negotiating team member employees had to track him down to find out what was going on. In a subsequent meeting, Tim called two hours before it was to start and say that he couldn't attend. This was the first in a series of disappointing and shocking actions by NEMSA.
Continued below
Lets face the facts

Beckley, WV

#135 Jan 27, 2013
continued

After more delays, the employees complained to Torren and Aaron regarding the lack of representation, citing his prolonged absence and lack of communication. Furthermore, the employees found out that NEMSA would be charging no less than $26, possibly $30 and more, a month for union dues. Why this wasn't discussed up front in the first place is beyond me. Anyway, that set off the EMTs because they make practically peanuts, especially the part-time folks. Then we found out that Torren and Aaron were both also working for AMR, our largest and most serious competitor in Sacramento County. This to us seemed a grave conflict of interest. More and more, we began to have serious concerns about NEMSA's ability to function professionally. We discovered that Tim attempted-at least once or twice-to get our manager to quickly sign the contract we had discussed up to that point and "get it over with" behind our backs when the two of them met up during other union matters (keep in mind all this time they were in negotations regarding Solano County employees' contract). Our manager declined, saying she felt it wasn't right because the action would have circmvented the employees' negotiating team knowledge and participatin (she smartly recognized that would have caused her more trouble than for NEMSA). That, plus the limited, wishy-washy representation we were getting, prompted a series of discussions pertaining to possible de-certification of NEMSA. Torren and Aaron suggested we hold an in-house vote and they would gracefully "bow out" if the employees decided not to retain them. This was said at a shop meeting with the majority of employees attending. So, a vote was held and by a 1-point margin, it was decided we didn't want NEMSA after all.

Sadly, NEMSA didn't back out gracefully as they promised. In fact, they basically had told the management that no such statement was made by them, essentially implicating a dozen people as liars. This ruffled our feathers even more. As the weeks went by we waited patiently for the certification date to arrive in order to apply to the National Labor Relations Board for de-certification. Weeks became months. During that time, nobody on the negotiating team received any phone calls or emails from anyone at NEMSA. This was despite the last thing NEMSA needed was for everyone in Solano County to find out that our tiny little Sacramento division gave them the boot. After all, it seemed, we were the ones who stood to gain the most out of having a union.
Lets face the facts

Beckley, WV

#136 Jan 27, 2013
continued
During this long period of silence, we learned that our Solano County counterparts have been (and continue) paying $30 to $40 a month in union dues for nearly a year WITHOUT A CONTRACT. Yes, NEMSA continues to collect dues when they're technically not supposed to. Then we learned that Tim got up and walked out of a contract session at least once all flustered, etc. under the pressure of questions and concerns aired. We had been hearing a lot of interesting and appalling things occurring in Solano County with regard to NEMSA. Unfortunately, our fellow employees there are still diving headlong into whatever NEMSA says they stand to gain. We have heard and still hear that it's looking more and more like a strike is on the horizon. Well, a strike DID happen at Piner's Ambulance in Napa County at the behest of NEMSA and failed negotiations. That was settled a while ago and, from what I've heard, it sounds like the employees there didn't actually gain much of anything. Oh, the icing on the cake: AMR, a fellow NEMSA unit, was kicking overflow calls to local competitors in our county who are NOT members of NEMSA and NEMSA didn't say a word to them. In fact, someone at NEMSA said "There's nothing we can do about it." During that time, we lost some business. Here's another interesting point: I recently discussed with my boss in retrospect what we all went through here and she mentioned a discussion she had with Torren some time ago. She brought up to him the possibility that our company could eventually bid for the lucrative local 9-1-1 contracts in the future and asked him if he, as NEMSA, would back our company up at that time. He said "no" (essentially because of his ties with AMR). If THAT didn't kick us in the seat of our pants...after all, ours is a much older -albeit smaller- established operation in this area (since 1979, in place long before AMR even existed!).

The certification date came and went so we contacted the NLRB and filed or application for de-certification. The NLRB informed NEMSA but got no reply for a very long time. After the hearing date was pushed back and more waiting, NEMSA finally sent a letter withdrawing their interest in representing our Sacramento division. So by default, we are no longer represented by NEMSA or anyone else. Interestingly, we as employees have approached our boss and have accomplished some good things in negotiating with her directly. We FINALLY-just now- got the really nice raise (though not retro) we wanted that NEMSA couldn't get for us (it all stalled at 5%, which was the rock bottom). Things are moving forward once again and we're all happier and less stressed here.

Meanwhile, we've learned that NEMSA's Aaron Pelican has been showing up for the negotiation meetings and not saying a single word. He just sits there, taking notes and NOT making eye contact with anyone. In fact-and this is very interesting-NEMSA has HIRED AN OUTSIDE INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY to speak for them at these meetings. It appears NEMSA won't even speak for itself and our fellow employees are paying for this??? Aren't NEMSA negotiators supposedly "experienced attorneys who will represent you" as advertised in their brochures and web site? Apparently, our counterparts in Solano County are blind, stupid or just brainwashed by NEMSA because they're going along with it and a bunch of other amazingly unrealistic stuff without saying anything (that we know of). Apparently, from what we heard, they turned down our company's offer of 16% in favor of something much more lucrative. Wow. Hell, even 5% is better than what most people get!
1 post removed
curious

Beckley, WV

#138 Jan 27, 2013
I don't understand why EMS workers are allowed to work more than 12 hours at a time? They should have the same shifts as people working in the hospital you wouldn't have a nurse work 24 hours straight so why would you have someone who has to drive with a patient who could be dying?
answer

Beckley, WV

#139 Jan 28, 2013
Nurses work the complete time they are there other than a couple short breaks. An EMT comes to work and in a 24 they may actually only be away from station 40% of the time which is about 9.5 hours, some much less and a few a little more. An EMS station is like a home with couches tv beds where they can rest anytime they are there.
Truth

Charleston, WV

#140 Jan 28, 2013
answer wrote:
Nurses work the complete time they are there other than a couple short breaks. An EMT comes to work and in a 24 they may actually only be away from station 40% of the time which is about 9.5 hours, some much less and a few a little more. An EMS station is like a home with couches tv beds where they can rest anytime they are there.


You obviously have ever worked EMS. Yes our station has couches, tv's, beds. and a lot of other very homey things. One of these days it might be nice to utilize them too. That said there are some stations that are slower than others where you may get more down time. However all EMS companies pride themselves on having a low UHU. That is Unit Hour Utilization. The optimal number for this is 1. There is 1440 minutes in a day and you want your trucks to be busy 1440 minutes. If they are busy for only 960 for instance, that is a UHU of 1.5. Most EMS providers find that is not being busy enough. It used to be a big joke EMS, Earn Money Sleeping. That just is not the case anymore especially in West Virginia. With an aging population and an increase in emergency room abuse (the ole I will get in faster if I call 911 for a toothache) we are seeing an increase in the amount of time spent off station. To say that only a little bit more than 40% is away from the station most of the time is a great inaccuracy. I cannot not quote you numbers but I would like to know where you got yours. My truck averages a UHU of 1 to 1.1. Admittedly I do not work for Jan Care anymore but I do know that there are Jan Care owned ambulances that run just as hard.
EMS FAN

Beckley, WV

#141 Jan 28, 2013
The Insider wrote:
redbone
wife of a medic
EMS FAN
Let me get this straight because I want to make sure I understand your arguments! It's ok for redbone to bring up Kevin and Mark and argue that that they "would still be alive" if JC had had a union, but it's NOT ok for me to respond that he shouldn't exploit their deaths to push his agenda??!! I am the ass?? I'm the parasite?? I'm the piece of work??
My God! I've honestly never seen a more delusional, self-righteous, selfish, egotistical, and twisted group of people in my entire life!!
The three of you are so wrapped up in your desire to "punish" Jan-Care for some perceived wrong, to get the "fair share" you feel you're entitled to, to make them "pay" for all the success they've had, that you have managed to construe and contort your sense of reality to a new level of psychotic. If you are EMS workers for Jan-Care or another company, I question your abilities to provide adequate patient care because of your warped views on the company. At best, you are insane and at worst, dangerous. God help the people to whom you respond!!
You think it's about money......THAT'S SAD!
Paramedic 24

Oak Hill, WV

#142 Jan 28, 2013
And im a Paramedic that has worked 24 hours shifts for over twenty years. I wouldnt have it any other way. On a slow day i get time to rest and take care of a few personal things. Many nights i sleep all night or only get up once. On the other hand there are days and nights that we are busy and run all night. If we take a long trip at night and get sleepy our employer allows to stop and sleep for a few hours before we continue. At the end of my shift i get to go home for two days. So for all the people that say why work 24 hour shifts because a choose to along with many of my co-workers. I may not make 18.00 per hour like some the posters have said but my company dont get 5 million dollars a year from a levy so we cant afford it. We do get good benifits and a great place to work and thats worth more to us than lots of money or any union. My question for the JC people that want the union so bad and 12 hour shifts. Where are you going to get all the Paramedics to cover the shifts? It will take two per shift rather than one and with the shortage of Paramedics we already have in the state, where will you find them. I understand the unions and supporters feel its not your problem but when you dont have ALS crews to respond to calls then what happens? I dont work for JC and never will, so do what you think you must do. Just remember the owners also have the right to sell the business and take all the money and retire.
redbone

Beckley, WV

#143 Jan 28, 2013
The Insider wrote:
redbone
wife of a medic
EMS FAN
Let me get this straight because I want to make sure I understand your arguments! It's ok for redbone to bring up Kevin and Mark and argue that that they "would still be alive" if JC had had a union, but it's NOT ok for me to respond that he shouldn't exploit their deaths to push his agenda??!! I am the ass?? I'm the parasite?? I'm the piece of work??
My God! I've honestly never seen a more delusional, self-righteous, selfish, egotistical, and twisted group of people in my entire life!!
The three of you are so wrapped up in your desire to "punish" Jan-Care for some perceived wrong, to get the "fair share" you feel you're entitled to, to make them "pay" for all the success they've had, that you have managed to construe and contort your sense of reality to a new level of psychotic. If you are EMS workers for Jan-Care or another company, I question your abilities to provide adequate patient care because of your warped views on the company. At best, you are insane and at worst, dangerous. God help the people to whom you respond!!
If wanting a safer working environment is Punishment to an employer, then we shall "punish" the company until it gives us safer working conditions. I hope you get payed well for bashing the EMS personnel here wanting a safer working environment. what were your "KIND" words toward us? "delusional, self-righteous, selfish, egotistical" Its a shame that a union has to be used as a tool to get these safer working conditions.
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#144 Jan 28, 2013
EMS FAN wrote:
<quoted text>
You think it's about money......THAT'S SAD!
EMS fan

Where, in that entire quote, did I say ANYTHING about money? Did you read it, or did you just see the word "pay" and assume that I was refering to wages? A word of advice, if you're going to criticize someone for what they wrote, make sure you actually bother to READ it first.
ex company man

Beckley, WV

#145 Jan 28, 2013
Paramedic 24 wrote:
And im a Paramedic that has worked 24 hours shifts for over twenty years. I wouldnt have it any other way. On a slow day i get time to rest and take care of a few personal things. Many nights i sleep all night or only get up once. On the other hand there are days and nights that we are busy and run all night. If we take a long trip at night and get sleepy our employer allows to stop and sleep for a few hours before we continue. At the end of my shift i get to go home for two days. So for all the people that say why work 24 hour shifts because a choose to along with many of my co-workers. I may not make 18.00 per hour like some the posters have said but my company dont get 5 million dollars a year from a levy so we cant afford it. We do get good benifits and a great place to work and thats worth more to us than lots of money or any union. My question for the JC people that want the union so bad and 12 hour shifts. Where are you going to get all the Paramedics to cover the shifts? It will take two per shift rather than one and with the shortage of Paramedics we already have in the state, where will you find them. I understand the unions and supporters feel its not your problem but when you dont have ALS crews to respond to calls then what happens? I dont work for JC and never will, so do what you think you must do. Just remember the owners also have the right to sell the business and take all the money and retire.
I quote you: "On a slow day i get time to rest and take care of a few personal things. Many nights i sleep all night or only get up once." WOW!!! These would be great working conditions and I agree how nice your job must be. Great benefits would be nice for us too, ours are the worst in EMS. Sounds like everything you have is what we are fighting for. With everything you have posted about your job, I see that we are not asking for too much. Obviously, your employer is thinking of their employees. As far as them selling the business, it could only be a plus for the employees at this time. Thank you for the post, very informative!
Funny

Beckley, WV

#146 Jan 28, 2013
Fact of the matter is that Mark lost his life and it was a tragedy and should have never happened. However there is nothing anyone can do now to change that.
Tell me

Kinston, NC

#147 Jan 28, 2013
The Insider wrote:
<quoted text>
It is my sincerest hope that everyone at JC reads this post. I'm telling you these people will stop at nothing. They have no sense of decency, no morality, no boundaries-they will use any tragedy large or small if it furthers their agenda. They DO NOT CARE! For them, the ends justify the means. If that means exploiting a terrible, tragic accident, like the death of a community hero, they have no qualms about it.
NEMSA was contacted before Mark's death-they were already attempting to unionize the workforce well before January 15. It was going slowly. However, once the wreck happened, they were given a golden opportunity to scare JC's workers into supporting the "safety measures" a union "promises" to supply. Nevermind that despite the millions of miles JC ambulances have traveled over the past forty two years, only ONE ambulance wreck has taken the life of a JC worker (Kevin Richie, God rest his soul, was on a call when he died, but it WAS NOT an ambulance wreck).
So redbone, don't give us this crap. It not only insults our intelligence, but it trivializes and exploits the two tragedies that Kevin and Mark, their families, and Jan-Care have had to endure.
I would like to hear more about all the safety measures the union promises to supply. The union supporters keep talken safety but fail to explain what they are.
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#148 Jan 29, 2013
redbone wrote:
<quoted text>
If wanting a safer working environment is Punishment to an employer, then we shall "punish" the company until it gives us safer working conditions. I hope you get payed well for bashing the EMS personnel here wanting a safer working environment. what were your "KIND" words toward us? "delusional, self-righteous, selfish, egotistical" Its a shame that a union has to be used as a tool to get these safer working conditions.
Jan-Care IS safe! We have an excellent safety record! I've written about it in numerous posts; apparently, you didn't read them or you've chosen to disregard them. Ignoring something doesn't make it go away. In spite of the two tragedies the company has experienced in its forty two years, Jan-Care is still one of the SAFEST EMS companies in the entire country!

The fact that you're still attempting to make this about "safety" should tell everyone that you are grasping at straws to justify this union. Just admit it-you feel you deserve "a bigger piece of the pie;" you think that those "greedy corporate fat-cat Cornetts" owe you something because they've been successful; you feel "entitled to your fair share" because they are the "haves" and you are the "have nots"-they are the "1%" and your the "99%"!
Occupy South Fayette Street, right?

Make no mistake about it-these people don't care about "safety." If they did, they would be praising the safety measures JC has instituted on its own accord, without the help of a "union."

Level 1

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149 Jan 29, 2013
Really? You just showed your complete ignorance on what unions have done for EVERY working man and woman in this country. Here is a bit of history for you Mr. Insider.

What have unions done for the american worker:

OSHA - Occupational SAFETY and Health Administration
Workers Comp
Overtime
Week Ends
Ended Child Labor
Unemployment Benefits
Health Insurance
Fair Labor Standards Act
Maternity leave - Later expanded into FMLA
Medicare (Where Jan Care gets most if not ALL of its revenue) Thank you Unions

Need I go on?

Union Yes!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Beckley Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Rahall-Jenkins House race remains tight 1 hr mike 30
Body parts 4 hr Born That Way 71
Senator Mike Green (Mar '09) 4 hr Listening 57
As a employee of beckley olive garden how do yo... 5 hr Cant get right 9
It's All Obama's Fault. 5 hr aka 8
Jeff Mullins And A Coach's Overheard Comment 6 hr scratchin backs 30
Beckley pediatrics 6 hr Momma too 3
Mullins plan.....does anyone know? 9 hr Vote Muillins 62
why do black men prefer white women? 10 hr Beautiful Woman 279
Beckley Dating
Find my Match

Beckley Jobs

Beckley People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Beckley News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Beckley

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]