Family Worship center
Skeptic

Mount Hope, WV

#165 Oct 6, 2009
I just realized that this forum is like in the "old days" when church people got on the telephone and ran the pastor and the church down, but now instead of the telephone it's done via the internet.
Forgiven

Mount Hope, WV

#166 Oct 6, 2009
Hey, I've got a novel idea. Why don't we all get on our knees and lift everyone involved in this mess up to the Lord...the pastor, deacons, church members, everyone. It's God we should be talking to about this because He's the only one who can bring perfect resolution to it. Call me crazy, but I vote for prayer.
whatchootalkinbo ut

Oak Hill, WV

#167 Oct 6, 2009
A Thought wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand what you are saying, but one thing I do know first hand. On two occasions when he was supposed to hold revivals at other churches he simply didn't show up! No phone call, no apology just left the pastor's and churches waiting. Then later said he forgot! Not much of a heart of evangelism....In fact was using the time to slip off to Ohio to visit familiy and this is not hearsay but fact and he cant deny it or he would be calling two area pastors and their churches liars....Im sorry to start feeling this way about any man, but it seems he is there for SELF....
wow! i had no idea that had happened. very, very disturbing....
JustWantTheTruth

Beckley, WV

#168 Oct 6, 2009
TO "YES":

YOU SAY: "The pastor of fwc has never made the statement "Satan and his people are gone." If so name the service he said it in."

I SAY: 9/27/09 a.m. service ... He also said, "we'll be known from the east to the west";
"if you have any questions on whether you should be here or not, you shouldn't" ... such a loving, kind shepherd he is ... don't ya think?

YOU SAY: "Pastor has in no way got up and said anything that could be considered self glorification." AND "Pastor never said that the church is God's gift to him."

I SAY: In addition to the previously mentioned letter posted above being read to the congregation twice ... on two separate occasions, I HEARD him say from the pulpit while addressing the congregation, "I am your gift from God and you are my gift from God"! You either missed church on these 4 different occasions or you are flat out lying! The truth is the truth!

YOU SAY: "Name me one insult he has said about anyone."

I SAY: "Satan and his people are gone."

YOU SAY: "I recall when the church had the Wednesday night meeting that dealt with this mess that pastor got up and said he had no ill will or malice toward any of the men who came agaisnt him. Yes, he has addressed the evil spirit that has come against the church, but he never makes reference to a man because we do not wrestle against flesh and blood."

I SAY: Yes, he made that statement. He has no ill-will or malice so he just calls them, "Satan and his people ..." and I think that when he says "people he means PEOPLE so yes he does make reference to "a man" eventhough as you say, we do not wrestle against flesh and blood ... being a pastor, you would think he would know the difference, too.

YOU SAY: "In other words, we are not to get on topix and run our mouths about people."

I SAY: You mean like when you said, "I just want to start by saying WOW, you are pathetic. You apparently have no life and you must be in jr high." and "JustWantTheTruth, you are probably one of these people who go to church to criticize everything about it." and "They started the church out of bitterness toward the pastor of fwc and the COG of West Virginia." ... I see what you mean ...

YOU SAY: Name specific examples from his messages that is against the truth of the Word of God. I predict you won't.

I SAY: Too numerous to count ... if you thoroughly read all posts you will see lots of references to this from both sides of the fence ... I suggest you do that, go online and look up "Restoration of the five-fold ministry", research it for yourself and you will find almost direct quotes from some of pastor's sermons ... if you agree with it, then you are where you should be. I don't, so I left.

FOR EVERYONE: Just a thought here ...I understand the church is having financial difficulty since a lot of their biggest tithers have left ... so much so that pastor called an "emergency meeting" to discuss it ... it seems October was the month that they would start having touble making the loan payment on the building ... then fwc starts having thse immediately placed special services, guest speakers and such ... with huge postings on facebook asking all of beckley to come, don't want to miss it ... lots of hype ... claiming revival and such ... just wondering ... maybe just manipulation to get people in to pay extra offerings this month or true revival ... just a thought here ... I hate that I have to even question the pastor's motives, but I do. Another reason I left.

AND FINALLY: As I said before, There are still good people at FWC who deserve to know thw whole truth ... folks, I am here to tell you that if you seek, you will find ... examine this man and see if he bears the fruit of the spirit, check his words against the Word of God ... don't be manipulated. There is too much at stake!
Question

Mount Hope, WV

#169 Oct 6, 2009
JustWantToKnowtheTruth mentions the five-fold ministry as being a false doctine. Does anyone know the official COG position on the five-fold ministry because I read an article by a COG minister in TN who attended a COG sponsored function which promoted the five-fold ministry. So, if the COG stands behind this doctrine, then the pastor is not teaching/preaching anything contrary to their position. Just curious about your thoughts on this.
Skeptic

Mount Hope, WV

#170 Oct 6, 2009
Question wrote:
JustWantToKnowtheTruth mentions the five-fold ministry as being a false doctine. Does anyone know the official COG position on the five-fold ministry because I read an article by a COG minister in TN who attended a COG sponsored function which promoted the five-fold ministry. So, if the COG stands behind this doctrine, then the pastor is not teaching/preaching anything contrary to their position. Just curious about your thoughts on this.
So, I guess no one know the answer to this question. It seems to me that before you go accusing a pastor of preaching false doctrine you would at least bother to find out what the position of the denomination is on the subject.
whatchootalkinbo ut

Oak Hill, WV

#171 Oct 6, 2009
Question wrote:
JustWantToKnowtheTruth mentions the five-fold ministry as being a false doctine. Does anyone know the official COG position on the five-fold ministry because I read an article by a COG minister in TN who attended a COG sponsored function which promoted the five-fold ministry. So, if the COG stands behind this doctrine, then the pastor is not teaching/preaching anything contrary to their position. Just curious about your thoughts on this.
i, too, think this is an interesting question. one, to my knowledge, that has not been formally answered.

i have read the very article that you are talking about and, to be honest, i found it quite disturbing. it very much leads one to believe that, if the cog hasn't made an official stance against this doctrine, they certainly could be said to have approved it based on their acquiescence.

i know that these five former deacons sent a very detailed letter to the general overseer in cleveland, tn listing their concerns over a month ago and have not been contacted in any way; not even to say that they had received the letter and were reviewing it. there has been complete silence.

herein very much lies the problem for me. not only is the preaching of this doctrine unacceptable from a pastoral viewpoint in my opinion, but it is equally troubling that the cog has seemingly refused to take an official stance on this issue. for my family, this, coupled with the horribly ineffective leadership of the associate bishop of wv, helped us decide to not only to leave family worship center, but to have nothing further to do with the cog organization. how could we possibly when we feel so strongly about this?

one last point to reiterate, as mentioned before in this thread, this doctrine is not new. it's been around for quite a long time and whenever it is presented in many churches around the world, it usually rips them apart. such is the case at fwc. the assemblies of God took a stand on this doctrine several years by banning it from their organization. i sincerely hope the cog will follow suit.

Since: Sep 09

AOL

#172 Oct 6, 2009
whatchootalkinbout wrote:
<quoted text>
i, too, think this is an interesting question. one, to my knowledge, that has not been formally answered.
i have read the very article that you are talking about and, to be honest, i found it quite disturbing. it very much leads one to believe that, if the cog hasn't made an official stance against this doctrine, they certainly could be said to have approved it based on their acquiescence.
i know that these five former deacons sent a very detailed letter to the general overseer in cleveland, tn listing their concerns over a month ago and have not been contacted in any way; not even to say that they had received the letter and were reviewing it. there has been complete silence.
herein very much lies the problem for me. not only is the preaching of this doctrine unacceptable from a pastoral viewpoint in my opinion, but it is equally troubling that the cog has seemingly refused to take an official stance on this issue. for my family, this, coupled with the horribly ineffective leadership of the associate bishop of wv, helped us decide to not only to leave family worship center, but to have nothing further to do with the cog organization. how could we possibly when we feel so strongly about this?
one last point to reiterate, as mentioned before in this thread, this doctrine is not new. it's been around for quite a long time and whenever it is presented in many churches around the world, it usually rips them apart. such is the case at fwc. the assemblies of God took a stand on this doctrine several years by banning it from their organization. i sincerely hope the cog will follow suit.
I agree with you:

The problem is the people who could solve the problem are not on this blog.

If the pastor would stand before the congregation and say: I swear to God that I

am not having any sexual or emotional relation with this staff member, and the congregation

is my witness. I have swarm before God that this statement is true.

The staff member should do the same.

Sorry but, you haven't caught me is not sufficient.

The leadership of the Church of God has committed a serious miscarriage of justice

to everyone at FWC and at the least owes the FWC an apology for failing to swiftly address the problem.

The leadership at all levels is aware of the doctrinal question.

However the leadership at all every level as simply refused to render a decision

on this doctrine. They will not endorse it or deny it.

Until they do there will be continued controversy and division. The leadership has had a moral failure.

They did not do the right thing and but an end to the doctrinal question.

Since: Sep 09

AOL

#173 Oct 6, 2009
Putting an end to this Blog.
The State oversear could send a letter to FWC and
the other group and simply ask that they announce to the people to please end
the posts. of course anyone is free to post any thing they want.
But those wanting to end it simply need not reply.
untouched angel

United States

#174 Oct 6, 2009
Just a question?
why bring this to topix's. It's something between The pastor ,family and church members. I for one dont think it is right to do this, but in todays age its really expected.
I know that if the LORD is not worship , he will not be in that church, he should not be mocked or made changes to the word of GOD.
As one of the Lords many, I hope for the sake of the church members this is solved. It's sad, we need to ban together in the Word of GOD, not make a fool of it. The bible is there to preach from , not take notes and change.
So this church is divided? Normal! when the faith and trust has left it. Worship and love Our Lord and he will in return shine his glorious lite on each of us.
I pray each of you will find it in your heart to pray for those involved in this, answers will only come when we hit our knees and believe in the word of god. God bless and know he will be there for each of you.

Since: Sep 09

AOL

#175 Oct 6, 2009
If you want the blog to stop, send an e-mail to

[email protected]

Tell him to do what ever it takes to get this settled and stopped.
hershey

Oceana, WV

#176 Oct 6, 2009
Just reading this forum. Wondering just exactly what your talking about when you say the five fold ministry is a false doctrine. Isn't it in the Bible? Why do you think it's false doctrine?
whatchootalkinbo ut

Oak Hill, WV

#177 Oct 6, 2009
hershey wrote:
Just reading this forum. Wondering just exactly what your talking about when you say the five fold ministry is a false doctrine. Isn't it in the Bible? Why do you think it's false doctrine?
seems we've come full circle :)

hershey, no offense intended friend, but you can't pick up a book and start reading in the 8th chapter and expect to know what's going on. my suggestion to you is to start reading this thread from the very beginning. there are several posts that go into great detail about the restoration of the five-fold ministry that will hopefully help you to better understand the position of those who consider it a false teaching.
old teacher

Oak Hill, WV

#178 Oct 6, 2009
God is not man made..but religion is.Lots of people wasting time on something man made.
untouched angel

United States

#179 Oct 7, 2009
God is the core of who we are, with out HIM we do not exist. The bible reads like a love story of our lives, you learn to love him and use only him not MAN for the answers. I know this is way off, but try and see this from the LORD view, he must be so sad that the words he preached and died for are being SLAMMED.
Not of man can understand the powers the Lord has to change our lifes, but it takes you giving your oldself , to lead a new one with him.
We all sin each day, but do we ask for forgiveness each day? and Thank him for each blessing and lesson he gives us.
I hope something is fixed within this poor,sad church.. Rivival is only good when the faith is strong,and not for Man for GOD ONLY.. GOD BLESS and lay it on the cross, bow in his blood, he died for us. We should worship and love for him!
Service

Sophia, WV

#180 Oct 7, 2009
Passed the church last night....didnt seem to be very many there.... why all of sudden so many special services, when he didnt even care about wednesday nights?....mmmmmm could it be money????
Truly Praying

Lubbock, TX

#181 Oct 7, 2009
I hear you SERVICE , the evening services have been cancelled for holidays (Christmas & Easter)Mother's Day, Father's Day, CLOSED to spend time with family. What happened to spending time with family after the morning service and getting back to church for the evening services. What a shame to see people passing this once wonderful church at church time and the lights are off and the doors are locked. sadly things have changed and not really for the better in any aspect. My prayer is for restoration of love and compassion in "GOD"S" house and the return of concern for lost souls dying and going to hell. My Bible tells me Whosoever come! No where does it say to run people off for any reason. I thought we were to go in search of the One little lost lamb to return to the 90 and 9 not to run 90 and 9 off! This all saddens me greatly that God's children have been referred to as Satan and His followers. All who left were standing up for Godliness, Descency and for Right! I would not want to be in the shoes of anyone touching God's annointed. I am praying for a Miracle!
agree

Oceana, WV

#182 Oct 7, 2009
Truly Praying wrote:
I hear you SERVICE , the evening services have been cancelled for holidays (Christmas & Easter)Mother's Day, Father's Day, CLOSED to spend time with family. What happened to spending time with family after the morning service and getting back to church for the evening services. What a shame to see people passing this once wonderful church at church time and the lights are off and the doors are locked. sadly things have changed and not really for the better in any aspect. My prayer is for restoration of love and compassion in "GOD"S" house and the return of concern for lost souls dying and going to hell. My Bible tells me Whosoever come! No where does it say to run people off for any reason. I thought we were to go in search of the One little lost lamb to return to the 90 and 9 not to run 90 and 9 off! This all saddens me greatly that God's children have been referred to as Satan and His followers. All who left were standing up for Godliness, Descency and for Right! I would not want to be in the shoes of anyone touching God's annointed. I am praying for a Miracle!
I agree, the church needs to get back to seeking FIRST the kingdom of God and His righteousness. The Bible says not to put mother, father, children or anybody else in front of God. The church also needs to get back to their calling and commission by God, which is to seek and reach lost souls. I think if any church does what its called to do, they wouldn't have to worry about money. They would be getting the souls saved and everything else would be added to them, just as the Word says. Maybe get back to their first love. You can be in church and lose your focus and vision. You can also be in a backslidden condition, and not even realize it. It becomes more like an organized club and you become involved in all thats going on, and actually lose your focus on God. I think we need to go back to what would Jesus do, in every situation.
Disgusted

Mount Hope, WV

#183 Oct 7, 2009
Talk about fleecing the flock! These special services have been an exercise in parting the faithful from their wallets. One service the pastor had everyone bring their offering to the front. He said the offering bags were too small and we should be taking the offering in baskets. Then after the evangelist gets through preaching he asks people to bring "jubilee" $50 offerings up front. Another night he wants you to bring your offering up front and wave it in the "fog" which represents the favor of God. Last night, he used a boat as an illustration in his message and afterward he asked people who had businesses going through a "storm" to bring $100 and put in the boat. After that he asked others in the congregation who were going through a storm to bring $20 and put in the boat. And it seems the evangelist is starting a church in FL and we're helping him out with money. Of course he could just pawn that $30,000 wrist watch he bragged about. Do they give these preachers classes somewhere on how to fleece the flock? I guess those who didn't have an offering to give just missed out on their blessings, huh? If there is going to be an emphasis every service on how we need to give and give more, count me out.
Skeptic

Mount Hope, WV

#184 Oct 7, 2009
I didn't see anyone holding gun to anyone's head. They can just say no.

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