Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 20 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: May 14

Location hidden

#75814 Aug 16, 2014
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
From where did Abraham, the pagan worshipper, come from?
From the land that is presently Israel? LOL.
I asked you where Joseph was born…focus
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75815 Aug 16, 2014
scirocco wrote:
<quoted text>

I asked you where Joseph was born…focus
Why skip to Joseph when the first Hebrew was his grandfather, Abraham, the pagan, who came from Ur or Chaldea?

So, since Abraham, the founding father of the Hebrews, came from outside the region that is now Israel thus the Hebrews are foreigners in the region and the native homeland of the Hebrews is Ur or somewhere in Iraq which is the original homeland of Abraham and his forefathers.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75816 Aug 16, 2014
CORRECTION:

ABRAHAM was the GREAT GRANDFATHER OF JOSEPH and came from Ur in Mesopotamia.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75817 Aug 16, 2014
Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Joseph.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75818 Aug 16, 2014
Logically speaking, since the first Hebrew, Abraham, originated in Ur thus modern Iraq is the original homeland of the Hebrews.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75819 Aug 16, 2014
scirocco wrote:
<quoted text>
Roseanne Barr reveals 'mental health issues'
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrit...
so does Joel

"Roseanne Barr, presidential candidate"

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75820 Aug 16, 2014
JOEL wrote:
ISRAEL - A MISTAKE
“The (Israeli) state idea is not according to my heart. I cannot understand why it is needed. It is connected with many difficulties and a narrow-mindedness. I believe it is bad.”
- Albert Einstein
he never said that.

try again another time
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75821 Aug 16, 2014
EINSTEIN OPPOSED ISRAEL

Source:‘Einstein on Israel’ reveals essential history of debate over Zionism and a Jewish state

Adam Horowitz on May 28, 2009

Fred Jerome begins his new book, "Einstein on Israel and Zionism", with a great quote from Albert Einstein to a close friend,“Though everybody knows me, there are very few people who really know me. I am a revolutionary.” Jerome’s book goes on to prove this very point. The book is a collection of Einstein’s letters, speeches and thoughts about Zionism and Israel, starting in 1919 until the end of life in 1955 (The translations were done by Michael Schiffmann, who includes a moving translator’s note written during the recent Israeli attacks on Gaza). These texts show Einstein’s shifting opinions and relationship to Zionism and his eventual dismay that Israel had become the “captive of narrow nationalism” that he had feared.

.........

Judge Hutcheson: It has been told to our committee by the Zionists that the passionate heart of every Jew will never be satisfied until they have a Jewish state in Palestine. It is contended, I suppose, that they must have a majority over the Arabs. It has been told to us by the Arab representatives that the Arabs are not going to permit such condition as that, they they will not permit having themselves converted from a majority to a minority.

Dr. Einstein: Yes.

Judge Hutcheson: I have asked these various persons if it is essential to the right or the privilege of the Jews to go to Palestine, if it is essential to real Zionism that a setup be fixed so that the Jews have a Jewish state and a Jewish majority without regard to the Arab view. Do you share that point of view, or do you think the matter can be handled on any other basis?

Dr. Einstein: Yes, absolutely. The state idea is not according to my heart. I cannot understand why it is needed. It is connected with many difficulties and a narrow-mindedness. I believe it is bad.

Judge Hutcheson: Isn’t it spiritual and ethical – I do not mean this particular Zionist movement, I do not mean the idea of insisting that a Jewish state must be created – isn’t it anachronistic?

Dr. Einstein: In my opinion, yes. I am against it ...

..........

NOTE: Einstein opposed partition and supported a bi-national state that would ensure equal rights for Palestinians and Jews.

LOL
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75822 Aug 16, 2014
LETTER TO NEW YORK TIMES - ALBERT EINSTEIN OPPOSED ISRAEL, JEWISH TERRORISM AND ZIONISM

PART 1

Letters to the Editor

New York Times

December 4, 1948

TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughoutthe world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement. The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

continued.....
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75825 Aug 16, 2014
PART 2

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240men, women, and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin. The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model. During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

continued....
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75827 Aug 16, 2014
PART 3

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75829 Aug 16, 2014
Google for the full letter
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75830 Aug 16, 2014
LMFAO. Bye, boyz. LOL.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75831 Aug 16, 2014
JOEL wrote:
EINSTEIN OPPOSED ISRAEL
Source:‘Einstein on Israel’ reveals essential history of debate over Zionism and a Jewish state
Adam Horowitz on May 28, 2009
Fred Jerome begins his new book, "Einstein on Israel and Zionism", with a great quote from Albert Einstein to a close friend,“Though everybody knows me, there are very few people who really know me. I am a revolutionary.” Jerome’s book goes on to prove this very point. The book is a collection of Einstein’s letters, speeches and thoughts about Zionism and Israel, starting in 1919 until the end of life in 1955 (The translations were done by Michael Schiffmann, who includes a moving translator’s note written during the recent Israeli attacks on Gaza). These texts show Einstein’s shifting opinions and relationship to Zionism and his eventual dismay that Israel had become the “captive of narrow nationalism” that he had feared.
.........
Judge Hutcheson: It has been told to our committee by the Zionists that the passionate heart of every Jew will never be satisfied until they have a Jewish state in Palestine. It is contended, I suppose, that they must have a majority over the Arabs. It has been told to us by the Arab representatives that the Arabs are not going to permit such condition as that, they they will not permit having themselves converted from a majority to a minority.
Dr. Einstein: Yes.
Judge Hutcheson: I have asked these various persons if it is essential to the right or the privilege of the Jews to go to Palestine, if it is essential to real Zionism that a setup be fixed so that the Jews have a Jewish state and a Jewish majority without regard to the Arab view. Do you share that point of view, or do you think the matter can be handled on any other basis?
Dr. Einstein: Yes, absolutely. The state idea is not according to my heart. I cannot understand why it is needed. It is connected with many difficulties and a narrow-mindedness. I believe it is bad.
Judge Hutcheson: Isn’t it spiritual and ethical – I do not mean this particular Zionist movement, I do not mean the idea of insisting that a Jewish state must be created – isn’t it anachronistic?
Dr. Einstein: In my opinion, yes. I am against it ...
..........
NOTE: Einstein opposed partition and supported a bi-national state that would ensure equal rights for Palestinians and Jews.
LOL
a little context would be helpful

read this first - then get back to us...

http://us.macmillan.com/einsteinonisraelandzi...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75832 Aug 16, 2014
JOEL wrote:
PART 2
Attack on Arab Village
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240men, women, and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin. The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.
Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model. During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.
continued....
BY using this as proof for your argument,

You are equating terrorists with zionists

thats like equating terrorists with Hindus

Yes, there are Hindu terrorists

but that doesnt mean all Hindus are terrorists, or Hinduism is terrorism per se

You commit a logical fallacy

sloppy thinking

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#75833 Aug 16, 2014
JOEL wrote:
Logically speaking, since the first Hebrew, Abraham, originated in Ur thus modern Iraq is the original homeland of the Hebrews.
And say that once you tried to convince us, although with no result, that Abe was from India...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75834 Aug 16, 2014
JOEL wrote:
Logically speaking, since the first Hebrew, Abraham, originated in Ur thus modern Iraq is the original homeland of the Hebrews.
Actually not Iraq but Babylonia

But really, if you want to biblically correct the origin of the Jewish people is Canaan. Thats were the collective originated.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#75835 Aug 16, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
And say that once you tried to convince us, although with no result, that Abe was from India...
I cant believe you actually pay attention to him. Impressed. lol

Shouldnt the world have ended by now?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#75836 Aug 16, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I cant believe you actually pay attention to him. Impressed. lol
Shouldnt the world have ended by now?
Entertaining things are easy to remember.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#75837 Aug 16, 2014
Yes, Abraham could have been from Ur or from Kashmir but he was certainly not from the region called Israel and so logically speaking the Hebrews had no right to be in the place (Israel) but should have relocated to Ur or Kashmir.

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