"Discussing" with Church of Christ
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

#41 Jul 22, 2013
All Christians before 1520 were Catholic? I think the Orthodox and Coptic churches might take issue with that statement.

And if you are really wondering why protestants don't confess to a priest, I can go into it, but I think you were asking the question rhetorically to make the point that the practice had been going on for a long time, and the fact that it had history made it the correct thing to do, even though it had no example in the Scriptures.

Understand this - I think confession to a person (priest or otherwise) is incredibly valuable. I think voicing a sin to another person gives you some power over that sin, it gives you accountability when you realize someone else knows about it, and it helps that person to whom you confess know how to best pray for you and the things with which you struggle.

I just question the NEED to have a priest (or a saint, or anyone) in between you and Christ when you need forgiveness. He's the one who paid the price for your sins, he's the one who forgives you.
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you know that the Bible is a Catholic book. It was created by the CC in the year AD 382. It was crated by Catholics for Catholics as all Christians before 1520 were Catholic.
The better question is why did Protestants decided 1500 years after Jesus to quit confessing your sins to a Priest.
The NT specifically says Jesus told the disciples they were to forgive or not forgive sins. How much do more do you need. Don't you think the disciples didn't listen to that.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#42 Jul 22, 2013
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
All Christians before 1520 were Catholic? I think the Orthodox and Coptic churches might take issue with that statement.
And if you are really wondering why protestants don't confess to a priest, I can go into it, but I think you were asking the question rhetorically to make the point that the practice had been going on for a long time, and the fact that it had history made it the correct thing to do, even though it had no example in the Scriptures.
Understand this - I think confession to a person (priest or otherwise) is incredibly valuable. I think voicing a sin to another person gives you some power over that sin, it gives you accountability when you realize someone else knows about it, and it helps that person to whom you confess know how to best pray for you and the things with which you struggle.
I just question the NEED to have a priest (or a saint, or anyone) in between you and Christ when you need forgiveness. He's the one who paid the price for your sins, he's the one who forgives you.
<quoted text>
Do you not understand that Scripture does not address or contain everything? It even declares that of itself! That is precisely why we have Sacred Tradition from the first and second centuries and infallible Ecumenical Councils in following centuries. All Christians in the West prior to 1517 were Catholic. The Copts have their own Pope except for the branch in communion with Rome. The Catholic/Orthodox reunification is well under way and I anticipate the horrid persecution by Muslims will speed this along. High end prots like Anglicans and Lutherans with whom I doubt you have contact can and do confess to a priest.

Anglican:
The Reconciliation of a Penitent
Form One

The Penitent begins

Bless me, for I have sinned.

The Priest says

The Lord be in your heart and upon your lips that you may truly and humbly confess your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Penitent

I confess to Almighty God, to his Church, and to you, that I have sinned by my own fault in thought, word, and deed, in things done and left undone; especially ______. For these and all other sins which I cannot now remember, I am truly sorry. I pray God to have mercy on me. I firmly intend amendment of life, and I humbly beg forgiveness of God and his Church, and ask you for counsel, direction, and absolution.

Here the Priest may offer counsel, direction, and comfort.

The Priest then pronounces this absolution

Our Lord Jesus Christ, who has left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him, of his great mercy forgive you all your offenses; and by his authority committed to me, I absolve you from all your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

or this

Our Lord Jesus Christ, who offered himself to be sacrificed for us to the Father, and who conferred power on his Church to forgive sins, absolve you through my ministry by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and restore you in the perfect peace of the Church. Amen.

The Priest adds

The Lord has put away all your sins.
Penitent Thanks be to God.

The Priest concludes

Go (or abide) in peace, and pray for me, a sinner.

Declaration of Forgiveness
to be used by a Deacon or Lay Person

Our Lord Jesus Christ, who offered himself to be sacrificed for us to the Father, forgives your sins by the grace of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#43 Jul 22, 2013
" I firmly intend amendment of life, and I humbly beg forgiveness of God and his Church, and ask you for counsel, direction, and absolution."

I John 1:9 says God is faithful to forgive us when we confess our sin to Him - if we are in Christ. So if God is faithful, it seems CC membership doesn't trust that He is true to His word?, that a priesthood authority is required to sort through intents of the hearts of members? Hardly.

Is there a place for a binding judgment today? Matters of fellowship and erring members is one such example, but we see clearly the CC cares not to touch this by the examples of their allowing some notable members to maintain communion their membership as they voted for abortion or gay marriage - which the CC does not approve of.

You really are quite deluded by their propaganda. The only cure is to study Y'shua for yourself and see what He actually taught. Spend some time with Jesus - sit at His feet and learn the real and unchanging eternal truth - the wonderful words of life.
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

#44 Jul 22, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you not understand that Scripture does not address or contain everything? It even declares that of itself! That is precisely why we have Sacred Tradition from the first and second centuries and infallible Ecumenical Councils in following centuries. All Christians in the West prior to 1517 were Catholic. The Copts have their own Pope except for the branch in communion with Rome. The Catholic/Orthodox reunification is well under way and I anticipate the horrid persecution by Muslims will speed this along. High end prots like Anglicans and Lutherans with whom I doubt you have contact can and do confess to a priest.
Sorry, MarkEden, but all Christians were not Catholic prior to 1517. The Copts are more Orthodox then Catholic (except for the branch that communes with Rome), and a simple Google search shows that the Orthodox and the Catholics had a definite split during the time of Pope Leo IX when he excommunicated the patriarch of Constantinople. Regardless of whether they reunify or not (which I doubt very seriously will happen - maybe increased ecumicism, but not reunification), they have been two very separate churches since well before 1517.

And by the way, I don't appreciate your snarkiness with comments like "I doubt you have contact"... dude, you don't know me, so don't presume things about me.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#45 Jul 23, 2013
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, MarkEden, but all Christians were not Catholic prior to 1517. The Copts are more Orthodox then Catholic (except for the branch that communes with Rome), and a simple Google search shows that the Orthodox and the Catholics had a definite split during the time of Pope Leo IX when he excommunicated the patriarch of Constantinople. Regardless of whether they reunify or not (which I doubt very seriously will happen - maybe increased ecumicism, but not reunification), they have been two very separate churches since well before 1517.
And by the way, I don't appreciate your snarkiness with comments like "I doubt you have contact"... dude, you don't know me, so don't presume things about me.
And sister all I need to know about you is revealed in your name.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#46 Jul 23, 2013
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
All Christians before 1520 were Catholic? I think the Orthodox and Coptic churches might take issue with that statement.
And if you are really wondering why protestants don't confess to a priest, I can go into it, but I think you were asking the question rhetorically to make the point that the practice had been going on for a long time, and the fact that it had history made it the correct thing to do, even though it had no example in the Scriptures.
Understand this - I think confession to a person (priest or otherwise) is incredibly valuable. I think voicing a sin to another person gives you some power over that sin, it gives you accountability when you realize someone else knows about it, and it helps that person to whom you confess know how to best pray for you and the things with which you struggle.
I just question the NEED to have a priest (or a saint, or anyone) in between you and Christ when you need forgiveness. He's the one who paid the price for your sins, he's the one who forgives you.
<quoted text>
Why do you question Jesus about the need to have a priest when he specifically tells us to that in the Scriptures. How can the successors of the apostles know what sins to forgive or retain unless he tell them.

I forget, you believe in SS. You can believe whatever you want. You help split the body of Christ up just like Jesus said not too.

You don't obey Christ a whole lot . Why is that?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#47 Jul 23, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
" I firmly intend amendment of life, and I humbly beg forgiveness of God and his Church, and ask you for counsel, direction, and absolution."
I John 1:9 says God is faithful to forgive us when we confess our sin to Him - if we are in Christ. So if God is faithful, it seems CC membership doesn't trust that He is true to His word?, that a priesthood authority is required to sort through intents of the hearts of members? Hardly.
Is there a place for a binding judgment today? Matters of fellowship and erring members is one such example, but we see clearly the CC cares not to touch this by the examples of their allowing some notable members to maintain communion their membership as they voted for abortion or gay marriage - which the CC does not approve of.
You really are quite deluded by their propaganda. The only cure is to study Y'shua for yourself and see what He actually taught. Spend some time with Jesus - sit at His feet and learn the real and unchanging eternal truth - the wonderful words of life.
I think you have your yarmulke on upside down.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#48 Jul 23, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you know that the Bible is a Catholic book. It was created by the CC in the year AD 382. It was crated by Catholics for Catholics as all Christians before 1520 were Catholic.
The better question is why did Protestants decided 1500 years after Jesus to quit confessing your sins to a Priest.
The NT specifically says Jesus told the disciples they were to forgive or not forgive sins. How much do more do you need. Don't you think the disciples didn't listen to that.
Up ti that time in history, the bible was forbidden to read. The CC said it was to complicated to understand, therefore listen to us. Then came Gutenberg. He printed the Bible to a point that the "common" people were able to buy and read. This lead to questing some of the "pagan" beliefs that the CC was teaching. the rest is history.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#49 Jul 23, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you have your yarmulke on upside down.
High level CC leader still wear a yarmulke. Pope, Cardinal, Archbishop, Bishop. We just don't see that it a yarmulke. Remember the original Christian were Jews.
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Chengdu, China

#50 Jul 23, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
And sister all I need to know about you is revealed in your name.
And brother, that makes absolutely no sense, except that perhaps you have no more arguments.

I'm disappointed.
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Chengdu, China

#51 Jul 23, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you question Jesus about the need to have a priest when he specifically tells us to that in the Scriptures. How can the successors of the apostles know what sins to forgive or retain unless he tell them.
I forget, you believe in SS. You can believe whatever you want. You help split the body of Christ up just like Jesus said not too.
You don't obey Christ a whole lot . Why is that?
This is just like debating with a church of Christ person. When the arguments run their course, personal attacks come out.

I do have my faults, and moments of disobedience to the Lord, but I'm grateful for His grace, which covers my multitude of sins, and for which he forgives me directly, without the need of a man in a black robe sitting in between.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#52 Jul 23, 2013
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
<quoted text>
This is just like debating with a church of Christ person. When the arguments run their course, personal attacks come out.
I do have my faults, and moments of disobedience to the Lord, but I'm grateful for His grace, which covers my multitude of sins, and for which he forgives me directly, without the need of a man in a black robe sitting in between.
Not a personal attack. I don't know you . Just what you say on this forum. All Protestants protest the Church Jesus started.

Everybody sins and falls short. But Jesus created a Church , a system with Sacraments to handle these thing.

There is no need to figure anything out. It was decided by Jesus and the Apostles and they left all of these truths into the Church which is the pillar and foundation of truth.

There is only way that the CC could still be in existence today. Jesus promised it would. There have been too many sinners from within, invading armies from outside and all the heretics and protesters over the years.

I was a Protester in my early life too.

He left us a Church , not a book.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#53 Jul 23, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a personal attack. I don't know you . Just what you say on this forum. All Protestants protest the Church Jesus started.
Everybody sins and falls short. But Jesus created a Church , a system with Sacraments to handle these thing.
There is no need to figure anything out. It was decided by Jesus and the Apostles and they left all of these truths into the Church which is the pillar and foundation of truth.
There is only way that the CC could still be in existence today. Jesus promised it would. There have been too many sinners from within, invading armies from outside and all the heretics and protesters over the years.
I was a Protester in my early life too.
He left us a Church , not a book.
I am sorry, but if your talking about the book "bible", I'll take the book anytime over the church. The church is lead by people who are sinners just like myself. Mistake can and did happen.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#54 Jul 23, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a personal attack. I don't know you . Just what you say on this forum. All Protestants protest the Church Jesus started.
Everybody sins and falls short. But Jesus created a Church , a system with Sacraments to handle these thing.
There is no need to figure anything out. It was decided by Jesus and the Apostles and they left all of these truths into the Church which is the pillar and foundation of truth.
There is only way that the CC could still be in existence today. Jesus promised it would. There have been too many sinners from within, invading armies from outside and all the heretics and protesters over the years.
I was a Protester in my early life too.
He left us a Church , not a book.
Please tell us what the word church means???
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#55 Jul 23, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text>I am sorry, but if your talking about the book "bible", I'll take the book anytime over the church. The church is lead by people who are sinners just like myself. Mistake can and did happen.
So you say Jesus was wrong in starting a Church first. The book came 350 years after the Church was started.

Of course the Church has sinners, the men that wrote the scriptures were sinners but you still read them dont you, but the Church is still here just like Jesus promised, until the end of ages, protected from all evil.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#56 Jul 23, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So you say Jesus was wrong in starting a Church first. The book came 350 years after the Church was started.
Of course the Church has sinners, the men that wrote the scriptures were sinners but you still read them dont you, but the Church is still here just like Jesus promised, until the end of ages, protected from all evil.
No, I am saying that what jesus gave to peter, Peter never handed down the authority. Then 350 odd years later a Roman Caesar Started the Church that we know today has the CC. therefore the word of the bible goes before the word of the Church.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#57 Jul 23, 2013
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
<quoted text>
And brother, that makes absolutely no sense, except that perhaps you have no more arguments.
I'm disappointed.
You were unaware some protestants, in fact the original protestants, can and do confess their sins to a priest and receive absolution. I'm sure you never met any of those since no Anglican or Lutheran would name their child Yolanda. Just a fact of life.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#58 Jul 23, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> Up ti that time in history, the bible was forbidden to read. The CC said it was to complicated to understand, therefore listen to us. Then came Gutenberg. He printed the Bible to a point that the "common" people were able to buy and read. This lead to questing some of the "pagan" beliefs that the CC was teaching. the rest is history.
I've never met anyone who gets dumber by the minute.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#59 Jul 23, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> Up ti that time in history, the bible was forbidden to read. The CC said it was to complicated to understand, therefore listen to us. Then came Gutenberg. He printed the Bible to a point that the "common" people were able to buy and read. This lead to questing some of the "pagan" beliefs that the CC was teaching. the rest is history.
Markeden, You have got to be kidding me that you don't know this. The CC went after Galileo for what he said, the CC went after Columbus because he said the world was round. There is no way you don't know this. This is history. Christmas celebration was also forbidden at one time by the CC. Please, maybe you'll learn something today, look it up. WOW, I am really shock that you don't know this. If this didn't happen, how did the protestant and the Lutheran come about.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#60 Jul 23, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never met anyone who gets dumber by the minute.
Please, get your head out of the sand and read more of history instead of relying on what you were told.

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