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61 - 80 of 163 Comments Last updated May 6, 2013
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#62 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
"These are not COMMANDS Mark"
Thanx for all the scriptures you gave to back up your statement.
I will take Pauls words...1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Context Mark. He is not saying that everything is commanded. Context- doing all things decently, in order, and for edification is the command. He is not commanding them to speak in tongues, prophesy, interpret, pray, sing, or anything else. He does command them in verse one to pursue love and spiritual gifts. Verse 12 he appears to command seeking to excel for edification. He commands the speaker of tongues to pray for interpretation in verse 13. Verse 20 has a command. Verse 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 34, 35, 38-40 all appear to have commands. This is just off the top of my head. I haven't verified from the Greek yet. You do know what the imperative mode in the Greek language is don't you?

The command in verse 37 appears to be, "let him acknowledge". PS-what is a psalm? And is it a charismatic gift as Johnny Robertson alluded to in "New Guys instrumental Debate"?
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#63 Apr 29, 2013
Let's think about something else here. Who has the authority to bind and loose, to allow or forbid? Do we?

Matthew 16:19, 18:18.
Mark

Danville, VA

#64 Apr 30, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
That has nothing to do with "specific worship for the church". He is simply stating he is a part of the Way. If you are going to make a point, you need to do it from a different place. This scripture doesn't make a case for you. othing here about the services of the assembly.
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
That has nothing to do with "specific worship for the church". He is simply stating he is a part of the Way. If you are going to make a point, you need to do it from a different place. This scripture doesn't make a case for you. othing here about the services of the assembly.
I made my point even though you may not have picked up on it.

New Guy asked this question: "Does worship involve more than 5 acts done on a certain day in a certain place?

Then after I posted Acts 24:10ff New Guy wrote: "obviously he speaks of the church" affirming there is a specific worship for the church. That is the reason New Guy wants to change subjects.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#65 Apr 30, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I made my point even though you may not have picked up on it.
New Guy asked this question: "Does worship involve more than 5 acts done on a certain day in a certain place?
Then after I posted Acts 24:10ff New Guy wrote: "obviously he speaks of the church" affirming there is a specific worship for the church. That is the reason New Guy wants to change subjects.
Mark that statement Paul is making has nothing to do with an assembly or "pattern of worship". Paul is making the simple statement that he is of the Nazarene sect. He is affirming that he is indeed part of that group. He is not describing worship practices. I have no need to attempt to change subjects; you need to find an argument that actually makes sense. You're forcing a round peg into a square hole here.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#66 Apr 30, 2013
The Way was a title of the church in those days.
Mark

Danville, VA

#67 Apr 30, 2013
Dave P wrote:

"Mark that statement Paul is making has nothing to do with an assembly or "pattern of worship"."

Then Dave P wrote:
"The Way was a title of the church in those days."

I'm so glad that everyone can see this.

First you say: The way "has nothing to do with an assembly"

Then you say: "The way was a title of the church"(the assembly)

And we have already established there is a specific worship for the church.

Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
mopman

United States

#68 Apr 30, 2013
Is Mark the fellow tha t Johnny trained? If he is that explains his replied. He is just parroting his teacher
ChadBTW

Martinsville, VA

#69 Apr 30, 2013
Mark wrote:
Dave P wrote:
"Mark that statement Paul is making has nothing to do with an assembly or "pattern of worship"."
Then Dave P wrote:
"The Way was a title of the church in those days."
I'm so glad that everyone can see this.
First you say: The way "has nothing to do with an assembly"
Then you say: "The way was a title of the church"(the assembly)
And we have already established there is a specific worship for the church.
Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
David answered you already.
He said, "That has nothing to do with "specific worship for the church". He is simply stating he is a part of the Way. If you are going to make a point, you need to do it from a different place. This scripture doesn't make a case for you. othing here about the services of the assembly."
ChadBTW

Martinsville, VA

#70 Apr 30, 2013
"nothing here about the *services* of the assembly."
that part you combed over.
Mark

Danville, VA

#71 Apr 30, 2013
ChadBTW wrote:
"nothing here about the *services* of the assembly."
that part you combed over.
No, I didn't "comb over" any part.
You simply came in late and haven't noticed his previous statement which he said:
"the Ephesians and Colossians passages are not addressing the "worship service" (language of Ashdod), and singing is not COMMANDED in the greek. The commands are be not filled with wine, but be filled with the Spirit; and let the word of Christ dwell in you richly. None of the 5 acts are called worship in the NT."

What he is trying to affirm is that there is NO specific worship commanded for the church. Do you agree or disagree?

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#72 Apr 30, 2013
Are you saying that you can't assemble on Sunday without performing all 5 acts? Singing is s command in the sense that it flows from one "filled with the Spirit"....Is "be filled with the Spirit", a command?
Dave P

United States

#73 Apr 30, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I didn't "comb over" any part.
You simply came in late and haven't noticed his previous statement which he said:
"the Ephesians and Colossians passages are not addressing the "worship service" (language of Ashdod), and singing is not COMMANDED in the greek. The commands are be not filled with wine, but be filled with the Spirit; and let the word of Christ dwell in you richly. None of the 5 acts are called worship in the NT."
What he is trying to affirm is that there is NO specific worship commanded for the church. Do you agree or disagree?
I disagree with your assumption of what I am trying to say. You know what happens when you assume? You aren't a mind reader Mark.

Work break
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#74 Apr 30, 2013
Mark wrote:
The command is to "sing"
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Ro 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Heb 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
NO mech. instr. of music mentioned in New Testament church worship and if you can add them to the worship then you cannot forbid anyone from adding peanut butter and jelly to the Lord's supper.
Not everything that was taught by Jesus is in the Bible.

The "Lord's Supper" is his real flesh and real blood. That it is the Bible and you don't believe it.

That is why Jesus left us a Church and not a book with authority to decide all things on faith and morals.

The Church existed for 350 years without a Bible.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#75 Apr 30, 2013
New Guy wrote:
Let's think about something else here. Who has the authority to bind and loose, to allow or forbid? Do we?
Matthew 16:19, 18:18.
The successors of the Apostles led by the successors of Peter. The Church. The only one that has existed since 32 AD and Jesus promised would not fail
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#76 Apr 30, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I didn't "comb over" any part.
You simply came in late and haven't noticed his previous statement which he said:
"the Ephesians and Colossians passages are not addressing the "worship service" (language of Ashdod), and singing is not COMMANDED in the greek. The commands are be not filled with wine, but be filled with the Spirit; and let the word of Christ dwell in you richly. None of the 5 acts are called worship in the NT."
What he is trying to affirm is that there is NO specific worship commanded for the church. Do you agree or disagree?
What I am affirming is that the terminology of "worship service" is the language of Ashdod-not scriptural. Where do we read anywhere that we assemble to have a worship service? The passages I mentioned are not speaking of things occurring on Sundays-they are things occurring in the everyday walk of the Christian. I see no scriptures in the NT where the imperative verb, a command to sing, is used. I also affirm that "5 acts" of worship in the new temple is unscriptural as well. We do worship the Lord on Sundays-but we also worship Him every day of our lives, or we should be. There are things to go on during our assemblies-and they must be done with the right frame of mind and attitude.

Forget about what you think I am trying to do. Instead of tearing down someone's ideas, let yours see the light of day. Tell us how to do it. Address my statement you quoted. Prove it wrong if possible.

*Is Ephesians and Colossians dealing with the "worship service"?
*Is there an imperative in the original language commanding us to sing?
*What is worship, when do we do it?

Mark, I've been on Topix for quite a while now. I've answered these questions before. Your turn.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#77 Apr 30, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
Are you saying that you can't assemble on Sunday without performing all 5 acts? Singing is s command in the sense that it flows from one "filled with the Spirit"....Is "be filled with the Spirit", a command?
Randy, how can all be worshipping when one man is preaching? Heaven forbid we have solos, or a church choir. But one individual is teaching or preaching at a time. All the rest are just listening, if they aren't asleep. How is it any different for all to be listening to a sermon, and all listening to a solo performance?

Singing is but one way that we are filled with the Spirit. We agree on this I am sure. I still wonder-did the first century church take up an offering weekly from Pentecost onward? Or did this start with the needy saints at Jerusalem? Any thoughts-I know you and I think alike on many things. If offerings didn't begin until later, were they truly "worshipping" before then?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. So many questions...
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#78 Apr 30, 2013
The verb "be filled with the Spirit" in Ephesians 5:18 is a present passive plural imperative.

Plural-all believers.
Present-ongoing, continuous.
Imperative-command.
Passive-the force of all of this is that we as Christians must always, continuously allow the Holy Spirit to saturate us, to fill us.

Do we only do this on the Lord's Day, or every day of our lives? If it's only on Sundays, then perhaps Paul is speaking of the assembly. I believe this is for our lives everyday, not just once a week.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#79 May 1, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Randy, how can all be worshipping when one man is preaching? Heaven forbid we have solos, or a church choir. But one individual is teaching or preaching at a time. All the rest are just listening, if they aren't asleep. How is it any different for all to be listening to a sermon, and all listening to a solo performance?
Singing is but one way that we are filled with the Spirit. We agree on this I am sure. I still wonder-did the first century church take up an offering weekly from Pentecost onward? Or did this start with the needy saints at Jerusalem? Any thoughts-I know you and I think alike on many things. If offerings didn't begin until later, were they truly "worshipping" before then?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. So many questions...
My very points, Dave. Sunday isn't limited to 5 acts, nor is Sunday the ONLY day that a Christian should be filled [controlled] with the Spirit. As you noted, the passages often used of those who promote the "worship service", actually address every day living.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#80 May 1, 2013
Dave P wrote:
The verb "be filled with the Spirit" in Ephesians 5:18 is a present passive plural imperative.
Plural-all believers.
Present-ongoing, continuous.
Imperative-command.
Passive-the force of all of this is that we as Christians must always, continuously allow the Holy Spirit to saturate us, to fill us.
Do we only do this on the Lord's Day, or every day of our lives? If it's only on Sundays, then perhaps Paul is speaking of the assembly. I believe this is for our lives everyday, not just once a week.
I heard a sermon once on "filled with the Spirit" which addresses your very points. Being "filled" means led-by-controlled-by the Spirit presently-ongoing-continuously -everyday. This is a command that is to be carried out daily in the life of the believer- a command built on love not a legal code.

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#81 May 1, 2013
mopman wrote:
Is Mark the fellow tha t Johnny trained? If he is that explains his replied. He is just parroting his teacher
Mark is a man who was fired by the school system in Danville. Johnny started paying him money to go on TV as a CoC puppet/mouthpiece. Mark gets paid but he sold his soul to Johnny. He says he was fired by the schools for his beliefs. What he won't talk about is at he was going into classrooms with teachers and students and interfering with classes. That's what he was fired for.

The schools fired Mark for disrupting people trying to learn. Then, Johnny hired Mark to disrupt people trying to worship.

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