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41 - 60 of 163 Comments Last updated May 6, 2013
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#42 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Do I need to read "New Guys instrumental debate" in order to know what God's word says? I don't think so.
New Guy wrote:
"None of the 5 acts are called worship in the NT."
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
How do we worship "in spirit"?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
How do we worship in truth?
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
In order to worship God in spirit and in truth we must worship Him according to His word, therefore ALL of the "5 acts" are called worship in the NT.
Does worship involve more than 5 acts done on a certain day in a certain place?
Mark

Danville, VA

#43 Apr 29, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe I did Mark. I do not believe that instrumental music is a sin for a Christian, and I do not believe we are commanded to "sing only". This is a tradition of men, not a commandment from God. How does the use, or non use, of musical instruments invalidate "singing and making melody in our hearts to the Lord"? Does God not hear me singing? Is He old, and cannot hear with all the racket? Traditions of men are not necessarily sinful, unless we make them binding and "the law", or we nullify one of His commands by doing so.
Ok New Guy, I am simply using your logic.
How does the use, or non use of peanut butter and jelly invalidate "bread and fruit of the vine"? Does God not see me taking the Lord's supper? In your words "Is He old, and cannot see with all the peanut butter and jelly?"
Mark

Danville, VA

#44 Apr 29, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Does worship involve more than 5 acts done on a certain day in a certain place?
I agree but Paul also refers to a "specific" worship which involve the "5 acts done on a certain day"...Ac 24:10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:
11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.
12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#45 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree but Paul also refers to a "specific" worship which involve the "5 acts done on a certain day"...Ac 24:10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:
11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.
12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Mark, we have a small hermeneutical problem here. All the way back in Acts 20, we see that Paul is trying to get to Jerusalem for Pentecost. After he arrived there, he went in to James and all of the elders. They told him to take four men who had made a vow and be purified with them and have their heads shaved. He then went into the temple, and chaos ensued. Pauls statements in Acts 24 refer to that episode. Yes, he mentions that he worships God, but there is nothing in this text to suggest he is speaking of the Lords Day services or the 5 acts. He wasn't in the temple causing a disturbance-but they did in fact find him in the temple.

You're putting something into the text that isn't there.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#46 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok New Guy, I am simply using your logic.
How does the use, or non use of peanut butter and jelly invalidate "bread and fruit of the vine"? Does God not see me taking the Lord's supper? In your words "Is He old, and cannot see with all the peanut butter and jelly?"
Is the Lords Supper merely a tradition of man, or a command from the Lord? Makes a big difference doesn't it-as well as the typological significance? Apples and oranges, the Lords Supper and instrumental music. If its simply a tradition, then unleavened bread or peanut butter makes no difference. The whole "pizza and coke, pb & j" argument about the LS is a tired old strawman. We also have a pretty specific idea about what sort of bread and fruit of the vine were present at passover too. Instruments are a different story altogether.
Mark

Danville, VA

#47 Apr 29, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Mark, we have a small hermeneutical problem here. All the way back in Acts 20, we see that Paul is trying to get to Jerusalem for Pentecost. After he arrived there, he went in to James and all of the elders. They told him to take four men who had made a vow and be purified with them and have their heads shaved. He then went into the temple, and chaos ensued. Pauls statements in Acts 24 refer to that episode. Yes, he mentions that he worships God, but there is nothing in this text to suggest he is speaking of the Lords Day services or the 5 acts. He wasn't in the temple causing a disturbance-but they did in fact find him in the temple.
You're putting something into the text that isn't there.
New Guy, can you tell us what Paul meant when he says, "the way which they call heresy"
Mark

Danville, VA

#48 Apr 29, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the Lords Supper merely a tradition of man, or a command from the Lord? Makes a big difference doesn't it-as well as the typological significance? Apples and oranges, the Lords Supper and instrumental music. If its simply a tradition, then unleavened bread or peanut butter makes no difference. The whole "pizza and coke, pb & j" argument about the LS is a tired old strawman. We also have a pretty specific idea about what sort of bread and fruit of the vine were present at passover too. Instruments are a different story altogether.
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Is singing merely a tradition of man, or a command from the Lord?

You do err, not knowing the scripture.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#49 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
New Guy, can you tell us what Paul meant when he says, "the way which they call heresy"
He said he worships according to the way. Obviously he speaks of the church. Don't ignore his testimony or that of Acts of what he was doing when the commotion occurred. He is absolutely not speaking or thinking of the Lords day service or 5 acts of worship there. He is simply saying he is a member of that sect, the Nazarenes.

I have to get ready for work now. Post your comments, I will answer later.
mopman

United States

#50 Apr 29, 2013
Mark, try answering the points made by NG. I bet you were good at dodge ball when you were in School ;-)
mopman

United States

#51 Apr 29, 2013
Everything you just posted has been answered in the New Guy musical debate thread. Where have you been? Go there and read
Mark

Danville, VA

#52 Apr 29, 2013
mopman wrote:
Mark, try answering the points made by NG. I bet you were good at dodge ball when you were in School ;-)
I love it when you all can't answer, you accuse us of playing "dodge ball" and using "strawman" arguements when you are so ashamed of your positions you wont even post your real name.

Mr 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Mark

Danville, VA

#53 Apr 29, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
He said he worships according to the way. Obviously he speaks of the church. Don't ignore his testimony or that of Acts of what he was doing when the commotion occurred. He is absolutely not speaking or thinking of the Lords day service or 5 acts of worship there. He is simply saying he is a member of that sect, the Nazarenes.
I have to get ready for work now. Post your comments, I will answer later.
Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Mark

Danville, VA

#54 Apr 29, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
He said he worships according to the way. Obviously he speaks of the church. Don't ignore his testimony or that of Acts of what he was doing when the commotion occurred. He is absolutely not speaking or thinking of the Lords day service or 5 acts of worship there. He is simply saying he is a member of that sect, the Nazarenes.
I have to get ready for work now. Post your comments, I will answer later.
"He said he worships according to the way. Obviously he speaks of the church.

"Obviously"? "Obviously"? "Obviously"?
So, "Obviously" you can see there is a specific worship for the church.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#55 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
I love it when you all can't answer, you accuse us of playing "dodge ball" and using "strawman" arguements when you are so ashamed of your positions you wont even post your real name.
Mr 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Headed out the door. By the way, I said my name was Dave P. Mike Conner a poster here knows my entire name as well as the wife's name. I have answers, but no time now. Later.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#56 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Is singing merely a tradition of man, or a command from the Lord?
You do err, not knowing the scripture.
These are not COMMANDS Mark. Singing is acceptable. But commanded, nor needed to be. You do err. These are not imperatives in the Greek. Every statement is not a command.
Mark

Danville, VA

#57 Apr 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
These are not COMMANDS Mark. Singing is acceptable. But commanded, nor needed to be. You do err. These are not imperatives in the Greek. Every statement is not a command.
"These are not COMMANDS Mark"
Thanx for all the scriptures you gave to back up your statement.

I will take Pauls words...1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#58 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
The command is to "sing"
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Ro 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Heb 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
NO mech. instr. of music mentioned in New Testament church worship and if you can add them to the worship then you cannot forbid anyone from adding peanut butter and jelly to the Lord's supper.
Why not use the same kind of rationalization when you disobey the command for "holy kiss" by substituting the handshake?
Mark

Danville, VA

#59 Apr 29, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not use the same kind of rationalization when you disobey the command for "holy kiss" by substituting the handshake?
Bobby, Paul was not present with the brethren he was writing this to, so when he says "the churches of Christ salute you" was he going against his own command? No! Therefore we can see there are various ways of greeting. He pronounced a salutation on them through his writen letter without an "holy kiss" but when he met them physically he could greet them with an embrace, hand shake or an holy kiss which would have been the custom of that time. Ro 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#60 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Bobby, Paul was not present with the brethren he was writing this to, so when he says "the churches of Christ salute you" was he going against his own command? No! Therefore we can see there are various ways of greeting. He pronounced a salutation on them through his writen letter without an "holy kiss" but when he met them physically he could greet them with an embrace, hand shake or an holy kiss which would have been the custom of that time. Ro 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
Then why don't you just obey it to the letter?

Rom 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

In fact maybe you should institute the military salute?

Another fallacy is when you quote " The churches of Christ salute you" and then claim that every one but you and a few other "perfect" men are the only true church. Oh I left out "of Christ" didn't I:-)

You will never find the peace of God that surpasses all understanding with your Pharisaical approach to scripture. God knows what is in our hearts-we can't fool him...
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#61 Apr 29, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
"He said he worships according to the way. Obviously he speaks of the church.
"Obviously"? "Obviously"? "Obviously"?
So, "Obviously" you can see there is a specific worship for the church.
That has nothing to do with "specific worship for the church". He is simply stating he is a part of the Way. If you are going to make a point, you need to do it from a different place. This scripture doesn't make a case for you. othing here about the services of the assembly.

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