Did the Pope nullify the redemtive wo...
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Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#103 Jun 2, 2013
William wrote:
"Nobody creates mental health issues for somebody else, even you and her other boyfriends and husbands could not have. If she had those no wonder she has been divorced twice."
Wrong.
The guilt that they've laid on her is overwhelming. And guilt is a strong motivator.
I am guessing it is her own sin that laid the guilt on her. The CC has taught the same thing for 2000 years. The teaching is sometimes hard. That is why many Catholics leave. Just like those in John 6. But forgiveness is always there.

Divorce and remarry is a grave sin in the Bible so therefore the Church. She can get forgiveness but she probably wants more than that.

Satan is always at work on us.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#104 Jun 2, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the CCC. It is based on sacred scripture and sacred tradition.You are free to read it at anytime. At least you will no what the official teachings are.
It is simple. Come home to Jesus' Church. Partake in the Sacraments and dont die in the state of unrepentant mortal sin and you should be on way
Why stay in a place where there is only partial truth? The Church is clear on that. non Catholic religious communities are can only be called Christian because the Church Jesus started says so.
They can only be saved in those communities because the CC says so.
Whoever hears the Church hears Jesus.
Take some time and
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm#II
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p6.htm

986 By Christ's will, the Church possesses the power to forgive the sins of the baptized and exercises it through bishops and priests normally in the sacrament of Penance.

987 "In the forgiveness of sins, both priests and sacraments are instruments which our Lord Jesus Christ, the only author and liberal giver of salvation, wills to use in order to efface our sins and give us the grace of justification" (Roman Catechism, I, 11, 6).

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#II
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#X
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a5.htm

All of these are from the CCC and are enough for me to say no to the RCC.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#105 Jun 3, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm#II
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p6.htm
986 By Christ's will, the Church possesses the power to forgive the sins of the baptized and exercises it through bishops and priests normally in the sacrament of Penance.
987 "In the forgiveness of sins, both priests and sacraments are instruments which our Lord Jesus Christ, the only author and liberal giver of salvation, wills to use in order to efface our sins and give us the grace of justification" (Roman Catechism, I, 11, 6).
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#II
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#X
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a5.htm
All of these are from the CCC and are enough for me to say no to the RCC.
The new covenant teaches repentance not do penance.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#106 Jun 3, 2013
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#107 Jun 3, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
The new covenant teaches repentance not do penance.
I thought your "Bible" church accepts all " points of views".

So everybody is right in your Church. Why am I wrong?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#108 Jun 3, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
I just thought of how often we are still living in the shadows.

Zechariah's Song
…78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high has visited us, 79To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. 80And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his showing to Israel.

Now our light has come and we seem to still prefer the shadows. What a paradox.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#109 Jun 3, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm#II
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p6.htm
986 By Christ's will, the Church possesses the power to forgive the sins of the baptized and exercises it through bishops and priests normally in the sacrament of Penance.
987 "In the forgiveness of sins, both priests and sacraments are instruments which our Lord Jesus Christ, the only author and liberal giver of salvation, wills to use in order to efface our sins and give us the grace of justification" (Roman Catechism, I, 11, 6).
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#II
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#X
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a5.htm
All of these are from the CCC and are enough for me to say no to the RCC.
It impresses me that you are learning what the Church really teaches instead of the what somebody told you. That is is great. You at least can argue from a point of truth.

Now you don't believe that Jesus told the Church that it had the power to forgive or not forgive sins?

"‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them,‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23).(This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#110 Jun 3, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought your "Bible" church accepts all " points of views".
So everybody is right in your Church. Why am I wrong?
It seems to me that you have more faith in the catholic church than in the author of life.

I had a nice visit with our french speaking missionary last night. He is moving his mission work from France as they have become become hostile to the gospel because of their growing muslim population, to Quebec. France has passed new legal restrictions on missionaries that make it very difficult to operate. They have passed tax laws that give them the right to take even his family farm in the US. In other words they are saying get out!

Quebec is a place where people have little interest in the gospel. We talked a lot about the catholic church there, which is their majority religion. Faith in God is on the decline there as it is in most parts of the world.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#111 Jun 3, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I just thought of how often we are still living in the shadows.
Zechariah's Song
…78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high has visited us, 79To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. 80And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his showing to Israel.
Now our light has come and we seem to still prefer the shadows. What a paradox.
That's no different than saying man prefers bondage over freedom in spiritual senses. Of all people, Chuck Swindoll had the best lesson on that topic I have heard. Not done much in coc :)

Anyway, he ended it by telling a story of a freed slave in the south following the Civil War. The freed slave stayed as a slave working for his master. He was asked why he didn't leave because he was emancipated. "Don't know nothing about that" he said. He was asked how he felt to be free. "Don't know nothing about that either" he said. I have never forgot that sermon, and it's been at least 5-6 years since I heard it.

Bondage, darkness- sometimes we just prefer this over something better.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#112 Jun 3, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
France has passed new legal restrictions on missionaries that make it very difficult to operate. They have passed tax laws that give them the right to take even his family farm in the US. In other words they are saying get out!
Quebec is a place where people have little interest in the gospel. We talked a lot about the catholic church there, which is their majority religion. Faith in God is on the decline there as it is in most parts of the world.
Sad. You are right, the message being sent is "get out!" France has been hostile to the truth for a long time, and with Muslims now the gospel light is flickering out there. The world is a darker place.
mopman

United States

#113 Jun 3, 2013
SS is the grounds for which darkness has come.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#114 Jun 3, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
It impresses me that you are learning what the Church really teaches instead of the what somebody told you. That is is great. You at least can argue from a point of truth.
Now you don't believe that Jesus told the Church that it had the power to forgive or not forgive sins?
"‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them,‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23).(This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)
I have no problem discussing things from the real point of view and not from what somebody else said. I will say this-but don't get too excited Mike-there are several things that I think most all of us posters here could agree with you about. Some things I agree closer to you than others do-as in baptism (I am coc, the closest church to the RCC on the subject). This is why I picked up books on the history of the papacy.

*I find that this happens a lot, that people often argue and debate about things that really have no basis. Example-here much was made of "sinless perfection" about 8 years ago-but no one was teaching it. John Wesley, the "founder" of this teaching, was upset because he did not believe where others took his teaching to, because it wasn't what he believed!

As for "penance", no I don't believe in it because it's not scriptural. There wasn't an institution of a "sacrament" in that text-that was simply the same idea he had told Peter in Matthew 16, and all the apostles in Matthew 18. Whatever they bound on earth had ALREADY BEEN BOUND IN HEAVEN BEFOREHAND. God made the decision, the apostles simply announced it. Only God can forgive sins. Men can preach the terms of pardon-announce what God had decided beforehand. But man cannot dispense forgiveness of sin, only God.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#115 Jun 3, 2013
mopman wrote:
SS is the grounds for which darkness has come.
Drive by hit and run poster. Heath imitator!
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#116 Jun 3, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems to me that you have more faith in the catholic church than in the author of life.
I had a nice visit with our french speaking missionary last night. He is moving his mission work from France as they have become become hostile to the gospel because of their growing muslim population, to Quebec. France has passed new legal restrictions on missionaries that make it very difficult to operate. They have passed tax laws that give them the right to take even his family farm in the US. In other words they are saying get out!
Quebec is a place where people have little interest in the gospel. We talked a lot about the catholic church there, which is their majority religion. Faith in God is on the decline there as it is in most parts of the world.
Is the missionary a member of a Cult?

This was form a Pew Institute Report. They have separation of state and religion similar to ours.

Every country studied has some restrictions on religion, and there may be strong public support in particular countries for laws aimed, for example, at curbing “cult” activity (as in France), preserving an established church (as in the United Kingdom) or keeping tax-exempt religious organizations from endorsing candidates for elected office (as in the United States).

The most controversial part of the report was the appendix, where a list of purported cults compiled by the general information division of the French National Police (Renseignements généraux) was reprinted. It contained 173 groups, including Jehovah's Witnesses, the Theological Institute of Nîmes (a fundamentalist Christian Bible college), and the Church of Scientology. Although this list has no statutory or regulatory importance, it is at the background of the criticism directed at France with respect to freedom of religion.

Major concerns listed in these official reports and other discussions include: the well-being of children raised in religious communities that isolate themselves from the rest of society, or, at least, ask their members to avoid social interaction with the rest of society; child abuse, especially abusive corporal punishment or sexual abuse;the defrauding of vulnerable members by the religious management; suicides and killings in destructive cults; the advocacy of medical practices that are generally considered unsafe, and the prohibition of some "mainstream" medical practices; the aggressive proselytizing of minors and vulnerable persons; the hidden influence peddling of certain groups in the administration and political circles.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#117 Jun 3, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the missionary a member of a Cult?
This was form a Pew Institute Report. They have separation of state and religion similar to ours.
Every country studied has some restrictions on religion, and there may be strong public support in particular countries for laws aimed, for example, at curbing “cult” activity (as in France), preserving an established church (as in the United Kingdom) or keeping tax-exempt religious organizations from endorsing candidates for elected office (as in the United States).
The most controversial part of the report was the appendix, where a list of purported cults compiled by the general information division of the French National Police (Renseignements généraux) was reprinted. It contained 173 groups, including Jehovah's Witnesses, the Theological Institute of Nîmes (a fundamentalist Christian Bible college), and the Church of Scientology. Although this list has no statutory or regulatory importance, it is at the background of the criticism directed at France with respect to freedom of religion.
Major concerns listed in these official reports and other discussions include: the well-being of children raised in religious communities that isolate themselves from the rest of society, or, at least, ask their members to avoid social interaction with the rest of society; child abuse, especially abusive corporal punishment or sexual abuse;the defrauding of vulnerable members by the religious management; suicides and killings in destructive cults; the advocacy of medical practices that are generally considered unsafe, and the prohibition of some "mainstream" medical practices; the aggressive proselytizing of minors and vulnerable persons; the hidden influence peddling of certain groups in the administration and political circles.
If it had anything to do with cults, they would be ousting all the catholics and muslims who live there.

This man had been there for 25 years and his four children were born there. He could have stayed if he was willing to pay the price of the new legislation.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#118 Jun 3, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
If it had anything to do with cults, they would be ousting all the catholics and muslims who live there.
This man had been there for 25 years and his four children were born there. He could have stayed if he was willing to pay the price of the new legislation.
So he is not willing to sacrifice for saving souls? Tell him good luck in Canada. You said he was going to Quebec. He will be treated well there. Lots of converts to Catholicism there.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#119 Jun 3, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So he is not willing to sacrifice for saving souls? Tell him good luck in Canada. You said he was going to Quebec. He will be treated well there. Lots of converts to Catholicism there.
It could have wiped him out financially and left him with no home to come home to.

We hope to see many catholics in Quebec convert to Christianity. I am one of his supporters.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#120 Jun 3, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
We hope to see many catholics in Quebec convert to Christianity. I am one of his supporters.
That sentence says a lot. I agree with the terminology. Catholic converting to Christianity.

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