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Since: Jul 11

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#1
Apr 16, 2013
 
There has been ongoing comments from both sides on the topic of imputed righteousness. The reason I decided to post a thread on this is so I can weigh arguments from both sides and determine who is right. I havenít looked into this a great deal but have always believed that we are credited with the righteousness of Jesus.

Dave and Barnswebs comments have made me rethink my position on this. My beef at this point mainly concerns the comments about our righteousness exceeding the Scribes and Pharisees. Their righteousness was outward show and seemingly meritorious on their part so Iím guessing to exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, we must have a righteousness that comes from the heart, and not one that we deem as meritorious; yet, a righteousness that strives daily to fulfill the law of God through love.ďIf we love Jesus, we are to keep His commandments.Ē However, we all fall short as Bobby has pointed out thus we must reply on Jesus. Does this mean our faith rest on Jesusí righteousness?
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#2
Apr 16, 2013
 
2 Corinthians 5:19

Since: Jul 11

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#3
Apr 16, 2013
 
2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Okay, so by this verse you are making a case for imputed righteousness? Connect the dots for me, please.

Since: May 10

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#4
Apr 16, 2013
 
William wrote:
2 Corinthians 5:19
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and [i]He has [j]committed to us the word of reconciliation.
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#5
Apr 16, 2013
 
Now read verses 20 and 21.

Who was made sin for us?
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#6
Apr 16, 2013
 
I would say your idea about how to exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees is correct. Jesus told the people basically to "do as they say, but not as they do". Jesus was clear that their worship was vain because their heart was far from Him. Who was it Jesus said went to his house justified or righteous? The tax collector who said "God be merciful to me a sinner!"

The idea that we are credited with Jesus' personal righteousness is dug out of a few of Paul's writings. Jesus Himself says no such thing, Paul in context says no such thing, no other NT writer mentions it, and nowhere in the OT do we find such an idea of righteousness.

Here is what Paul actually says. Romans 3:21 says "but now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed...even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe." Our righteousness does come FROM God, as Philippians 3:9 also states. But does that mean Christ's righteousness is credited to our account? Some people rely on translations saying the "faith OF Christ" instead of "faith IN Christ". But if you read more of Romans, you see differently.

Read Romans 4:3, and 4:5. Paul clearly states that the BELIEVERS faith is credited to him for righteousness, not that of Christ. Verses 13-25 tell us about Abraham and his faith, and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness. Paul then says it was written for our sakes as well, and that our faith shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus from the dead.

If Christ's righteousness is credited to us, it leads down the rabbit trails of sinless perfection, the idea that God only sees Jesus when He sees us. OSAS is a necessary result of this.

Since: Jul 11

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#7
Apr 16, 2013
 
Iíve read these verses many times. Are you contending this shows Jesusí righteousness imputed to our account? Furthermore, by this, are you saying God looks at Jesusí righteousness when He looks upon the saved sinner?
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#8
Apr 16, 2013
 
Wiliam's verses are talking of sins and trespasses. Eventually we may become the righteousness of God in Christ, but this does not say we are credited with the righteousness of Christ Himself. I believe my previous post explains quite well.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#9
Apr 16, 2013
 
Randy, who are you addressing in your last post?
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#10
Apr 16, 2013
 
When you believe and trust the gospel of Jesus Christ, that Christ died for your sins and was resurrected for your justification, then you have been baptized BY the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. You are made righteous by what Christ did, not by anything that you could hope to ever do. His righteousness is now YOUR righteousness, and that is what God sees.

Welcome to the gospel that Paul was given by the resurrected Christ. Hidden in God from BEFORE the foundation of the world. Not in the OT, and not in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

But don't take my word for it. Go read it for yourself. I am not selling some denomination's take on it.
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#11
Apr 16, 2013
 
It's called "the free gift" by the way.

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#12
Apr 16, 2013
 
New Guy wrote:
Randy, who are you addressing in your last post?
William. My phone delayed my comment- sorry
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#13
Apr 16, 2013
 
Yeah mine does that to, depending on signal strength.

Since: Jul 11

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#14
Apr 16, 2013
 
William wrote:
When you believe and trust the gospel of Jesus Christ, that Christ died for your sins and was resurrected for your justification, then you have been baptized BY the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. You are made righteous by what Christ did, not by anything that you could hope to ever do. His righteousness is now YOUR righteousness, and that is what God sees.
Welcome to the gospel that Paul was given by the resurrected Christ. Hidden in God from BEFORE the foundation of the world. Not in the OT, and not in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
But don't take my word for it. Go read it for yourself. I am not selling some denomination's take on it.
You state God sees Jesusí righteousness when a sinner becomes saved. Please cite me the passages that teach this. Dave [New Guy] seems to make a good case as does Barnsweb in refuting your position. I studied Calvinism many moons ago and through that came to understand as you but after looking at things from a neutral standpoint Iím leaning more so to what Dave and Barnsweb are saying because its right there in the Bible.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#15
Apr 16, 2013
 
Mine too. When I first posted on this thread,it said only one comment. But after it came up, there was like 6 or 7.
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#16
Apr 16, 2013
 
You need to read the Bible and make up your own mind about what you believe, and not side with anyone else in what they believe.

1 Corinthians 2 will show you who your teacher should be, and I stand by what that teacher says as part of my testimony.

And I'm no Calvinist either.

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#17
Apr 16, 2013
 
Thats what I am doing, William. Thats why my statement in post 14 says: "because its right there in the Bible."
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#18
Apr 16, 2013
 
How does what they say, or what I say, line up with what the Holy Spirit teaches.

Because that is the litmus test of any person's testimony.

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#19
Apr 16, 2013
 
Respond to Daveís post:

ďI would say your idea about how to exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees is correct. Jesus told the people basically to "do as they say, but not as they do". Jesus was clear that their worship was vain because their heart was far from Him. Who was it Jesus said went to his house justified or righteous? The tax collector who said "God be merciful to me a sinner!"

The idea that we are credited with Jesus' personal righteousness is dug out of a few of Paul's writings. Jesus Himself says no such thing, Paul in context says no such thing, no other NT writer mentions it, and nowhere in the OT do we find such an idea of righteousness.

Here is what Paul actually says. Romans 3:21 says "but now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed...even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe." Our righteousness does come FROM God, as Philippians 3:9 also states. But does that mean Christ's righteousness is credited to our account? Some people rely on translations saying the "faith OF Christ" instead of "faith IN Christ". But if you read more of Romans, you see differently.

Read Romans 4:3, and 4:5. Paul clearly states that the BELIEVERS faith is credited to him for righteousness, not that of Christ. Verses 13-25 tell us about Abraham and his faith, and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness. Paul then says it was written for our sakes as well, and that our faith shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus from the dead.

If Christ's righteousness is credited to us, it leads down the rabbit trails of sinless perfection, the idea that God only sees Jesus when He sees us. OSAS is a necessary result of this.Ē
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

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#20
Apr 16, 2013
 
Well, Christ died for your sins and was resurrected for your justification if you choose to believe and trust that for your salvation.

I'm just the messenger. What you do with that intel is up to you, and you alone.

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