Understanding the purpose of Baptism?

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William

Birmingham, AL

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#221
May 21, 2013
 
"Let's see, they are a Christian without the seal. The seal is the Holy Spirit. Paul said if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His. We are sealed unto the day of redemption. BUT-as long as we're baptized in name of Father, Son, and Spirit we're Christians-but don't have the seal. But we have to convert to catholicism to receive it. What if we don't convert, and Jesus shows up, and we're Christians but not sealed? Are we ok, or out of luck? And we're Christians, but not in the REAL body of Christ. Just like unbelievers aren't really married, but are in concubinage right?

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is catholic logic at it's best. Uggh."

There is always "one more thing" to do. One more sacrament. One more tithe. One more penance. One more One more. And it never ends.

I like to call it the "Title Pawn Religion." You never, ever get out of debt to it.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#222
May 21, 2013
 
William wrote:
"Let's see, they are a Christian without the seal. The seal is the Holy Spirit. Paul said if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His. We are sealed unto the day of redemption. BUT-as long as we're baptized in name of Father, Son, and Spirit we're Christians-but don't have the seal. But we have to convert to catholicism to receive it. What if we don't convert, and Jesus shows up, and we're Christians but not sealed? Are we ok, or out of luck? And we're Christians, but not in the REAL body of Christ. Just like unbelievers aren't really married, but are in concubinage right?
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is catholic logic at it's best. Uggh."
There is always "one more thing" to do. One more sacrament. One more tithe. One more penance. One more One more. And it never ends.
I like to call it the "Title Pawn Religion." You never, ever get out of debt to it.
Whoever hears his Church hears him.

From the CCC.

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
Doctor Da Truth

New York, NY

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#223
May 22, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Whoever hears his Church hears him.
Sir I have to ask this question of you "Is the Catholic Church the church of the Christ?" It appears that when you discuss the subject of baptism you ignore a very important fact involving the Catholic Church which is the changing of Matthew 28:19. The original church of Jesus (Peter and the apostles) followed the command of the Lord Jesus and baptized into his name. The reason I wonder if your church could be considered the church of Christ is because your church does not baptize into Jesus. Since your church chooses to baptize into a manmade doctrine created by your church, have you not decided to separate yourselves from Christ? You claim Peter as your apostle but that is far from the truth as Peter baptized into the name of Jesus thus remaining in the true church. A completely different church than the Catholic Church. Since you admit that baptism of the bible saves you, how can your church deviate from what the bible teaches and even go as far as to change the verses in the word of God. Your own church admits this sir, this is not an assumption on my behalf. I pray you consider the truth presented before you and repent by joining the real church.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#224
May 22, 2013
 
There have been claims it was changed, but the Aramaic, who rejected RCC, have 'Father, Son and Holy Spirit' in the Matthew text as a quote from Jesus Christ and claim that is the way it was received from Matthew.

Just sayin'....
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#225
May 22, 2013
 
Doctor Da Truth wrote:
<quoted text>Sir I have to ask this question of you "Is the Catholic Church the church of the Christ?" It appears that when you discuss the subject of baptism you ignore a very important fact involving the Catholic Church which is the changing of Matthew 28:19. The original church of Jesus (Peter and the apostles) followed the command of the Lord Jesus and baptized into his name. The reason I wonder if your church could be considered the church of Christ is because your church does not baptize into Jesus. Since your church chooses to baptize into a manmade doctrine created by your church, have you not decided to separate yourselves from Christ? You claim Peter as your apostle but that is far from the truth as Peter baptized into the name of Jesus thus remaining in the true church. A completely different church than the Catholic Church. Since you admit that baptism of the bible saves you, how can your church deviate from what the bible teaches and even go as far as to change the verses in the word of God. Your own church admits this sir, this is not an assumption on my behalf. I pray you consider the truth presented before you and repent by joining the real church.
Okay. I will consider it. What is the real Church? When did it start and what man started it? Give me some names of the Church leaders from 100 AD to 1500 AD. I will look up their writings and see what they have to say.
Doctor Da Truth

New York, NY

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#226
May 22, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
There have been claims it was changed, but the Aramaic, who rejected RCC, have 'Father, Son and Holy Spirit' in the Matthew text as a quote from Jesus Christ and claim that is the way it was received from Matthew.
Just sayin'....
I am interested in the source of your claim. Obviously the Aramaic claim or the Catholic claim that they changed Matt 28:19 is wrong. I know of no way this admission by the church benefits them in any way and they do not openly dispute this claim by their own people. Please share your source if you do not mind, sir.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#227
May 22, 2013
 
Doctor Da Truth wrote:
<quoted text>Sir I have to ask this question of you "Is the Catholic Church the church of the Christ?" It appears that when you discuss the subject of baptism you ignore a very important fact involving the Catholic Church which is the changing of Matthew 28:19. The original church of Jesus (Peter and the apostles) followed the command of the Lord Jesus and baptized into his name. The reason I wonder if your church could be considered the church of Christ is because your church does not baptize into Jesus. Since your church chooses to baptize into a manmade doctrine created by your church, have you not decided to separate yourselves from Christ? You claim Peter as your apostle but that is far from the truth as Peter baptized into the name of Jesus thus remaining in the true church. A completely different church than the Catholic Church. Since you admit that baptism of the bible saves you, how can your church deviate from what the bible teaches and even go as far as to change the verses in the word of God. Your own church admits this sir, this is not an assumption on my behalf. I pray you consider the truth presented before you and repent by joining the real church.
Are you talking about Iglesia ni Cristo? I heard a debate with them one time.
Doctor Da Truth

New York, NY

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#228
May 22, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay. I will consider it. What is the real Church? When did it start and what man started it? Give me some names of the Church leaders from 100 AD to 1500 AD. I will look up their writings and see what they have to say.
Jesus started the church by dying and shedding his blood for it. The real church is made up of those that follow him. You will find the truth not in the writings of man but the word of God. You say "Give me some names of the Church leaders from 100 AD to 1500 AD."? LOl, my friend that is your problem. This is exactly where the Catholic Church does err, by looking to the words of man rather than the words of God. Repent my friend while there is still time.
Doctor Da Truth

New York, NY

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#229
May 22, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you talking about Iglesia ni Cristo? I heard a debate with them one time.
Yes sir, I am speaking of the church of Christ that Jesus died for. The one and only true church. The church you read of in the bible.
Doctor Da Truth

New York, NY

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#230
May 22, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you talking about Iglesia ni Cristo? I heard a debate with them one time.
I humbly pray you will consider my words and may you have a wonderful evening, my friend.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#231
May 23, 2013
 
Doctor Da Truth wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus started the church by dying and shedding his blood for it. The real church is made up of those that follow him. You will find the truth not in the writings of man but the word of God. You say "Give me some names of the Church leaders from 100 AD to 1500 AD."? LOl, my friend that is your problem. This is exactly where the Catrholic Church does err, by looking to the words of man rather than the words of God. Repent my friend while there is still time.
So when Jesus said the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth, which of those that follow him have this truth? How do I pick out them out.

I know you must be one. Who else?

I have a Bible question for you? Who wrote the book of Mark and how do you know?
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#232
May 23, 2013
 
Doctor Da Truth wrote:
<quoted text>I am interested in the source of your claim. Obviously the Aramaic claim or the Catholic claim that they changed Matt 28:19 is wrong. I know of no way this admission by the church benefits them in any way and they do not openly dispute this claim by their own people. Please share your source if you do not mind, sir.
There was a sect of Christians in the East (Netzarim) who preserved the texts as originally received. Their oldest extant manuscript (167 AD) was translated from Aramiac to English in 2010 and published as the Aramaic English New Testament (AENT). There is a section that discusses textual sources, previous Aramaic translations, Church history, and such. It's a wonderful source for study.

aent.org

See the video interviews (2) to get a better 'flavor' from the translator and publisher. It's a bit pricey, but well worth the cost - the only thing I've found to question is his viewpoint on circumcision, as Jesus said the real circumcision is that of the heart. I'd recommend every student of the Lord get a copy for their studies.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#233
May 23, 2013
 
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#234
May 23, 2013
 
Doctor Da Truth wrote:
<quoted text>Yes sir, I am speaking of the church of Christ that Jesus died for. The one and only true church. The church you read of in the bible.
I am confused. The only one I read about is the Catholic Church.

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