Does God want everyone…to be Catholic?

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New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#46
Apr 21, 2013
 
http://www.bible.ca/sola-scriptura-proof-text...

These are good to show us that Jesus expects man himself to know and understand the word of God, and not just let the "church" explain it to him.
Mike Peterson

Madison, MS

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#47
Apr 21, 2013
 

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Dave P wrote:
Know enough about it to hate its doctrine and try to convince you to leave it for your souls sake.
"Through Your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way". Psalm 119:104.
By the way, what makes you think the RCC is any different than any of the protesters out there? It started the same way they did, with man going his own way. It's just the oldest of those fallen away.
I figured that you didn't know anything about it. "Know enough" by people who tell you. You dont really know what is a false way or not. You just have a Catholic book and then try to twist the scriptures to fit your beliefs.

Please tell me the man that started the Catholic Church? I can name the person that started every Christian Church other than the CC.
Name any other Christian Church between 100 AD and 1500 AD. Name any Church of Christ member between 100 AD and 1800.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#48
Apr 21, 2013
 
You're wrong sir. I speak from a place of knowledge.

Here's some info for you:

"The exact date of the beginning of the RCC is indeterminable. While the belief system recognized as Christianity is in place by the first century, institutional structures developed over time. Nor is it possible to distinguish Catholicism as a separate tradition until it can be differentiated from other Christian traditions (most notably, Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism). Scholars recognize a variety of significant institutional, theological, and cultural markers in this development:

First one, Council of Nicea, 325 AD.

This is from patheos.com .

Many historians suggest Pope Leo I is the first to claim universal jurisdiction over the worldwide church.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#49
Apr 22, 2013
 
nobody wrote:
Britannica Encyclopedia, 11th Edition, Volume 3, page 365 – Baptism was changed from the name of Jesus to words Father, Son & Holy Ghost in 2nd Century.
Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53 – The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century.
Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume 2 – Christian baptism was administered using the words, "in the name of Jesus." page 377. Baptism was always in the name of Jesus until time of Justin Martyr, page 389.
I never paid much attention to this verse because I always believed the trinity was invented by man and the name was obviously Jesus anyway, so no problem. WIL brought this up a lot, I checked into it and what of these sources?
Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 2, page 263 – Here the authors acknowledged that the baptismal formula was changed by their church.
Schaff – Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 435 – The New Testament knows only the baptism in the name of Jesus.
Hastings Dictionary of Bible, page 88 – It must be acknowledged that the three fold name of Matthew 28:19 does not appear to have been used by the primitive church, but rather in the name of Jesus, Jesus Christ or Lord Jesus.
'Jesus' is not the name of the Christ, and everything you read that says so should be suspect. Constantly searching for more truth, the other day I came across an article dealing with first century Jews dropping a letter from the end of His hame to show disrespect for the man, which lead to the development of the change of name in Greek that came to be further changed to 'Jesus' through the years. I'm not going to pretend that I know the mind of God to judge others unsaved for not using the right 'Name', and trust that God does uphold His word higher than His Name, but it seems everyone is afraid to call Him by His name? Yehoshua or Y'shua would be better, or even if we transliterate the name into English - there is no way to arrive at 'Jesus' without using the name the disrespectful and unbelieving Jews gave to Him later.

It was an eye-opening article....

But do you care?? Most people like to be called by their name and not some disrespectful slang word instead....?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#50
Apr 22, 2013
 

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Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the Church was given the Scriptures as they were written and distributed throughout the brotherhood. The Roman Church even prevented the layity from having access to the word of God and went even further to kill those who translated it so they could read it in their own tongues.
If anyone is to blame for obscuring the Scriptures, it's the RCC, so your line that somehow they are now the only true Church is nothing but a very bad joke for anyone who knows its history.
It is a joke for those who do not know history. First of all 90% of the world could not read until the printing press was invented in 1470. They couldn't read one if they had one.

It took a flock of sheep and 2-3 years for a monk to make a copy of the Bible by hand. They cost a fortune. If a Church owned one they had to chain it so it was available for the few that could read or it would be stolen.

That is why Churches had statures and pictures and crucifixes in the Churh.

A family could bring their children to Church to hear the word of God and show them the art and teach them about Jesus through that.Here is what Jesus had to endure for our sins, the crucifix. There was no empty cross, there was an empty tomb.

THEY COULD NOT READ.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#51
Apr 22, 2013
 

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And to add to this, those who could read were murdered for translating the text into the language people could understand and hear the word of God in!

THEY COULDN'T HEAR THE WORD OF GOD SPOKEN IN THEIR LANGUAGE SO THEY COULD BOTH HEAR AND DO WHAT THE LORD SAID!!!!!!!

It isn't a joke, and your ignorance of the truth is making YOU deaf;-)
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#52
Apr 22, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
And to add to this, those who could read were murdered for translating the text into the language people could understand and hear the word of God in!
THEY COULDN'T HEAR THE WORD OF GOD SPOKEN IN THEIR LANGUAGE SO THEY COULD BOTH HEAR AND DO WHAT THE LORD SAID!!!!!!!
It isn't a joke, and your ignorance of the truth is making YOU deaf;-)
You are right, salvation is not a joke. That is why Jesus did not teach sola scriptura. That is the joke. He left a Church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth, to teach the 90% of the world who could not read and out of the other 10% maybe a few % could afford a bible.

The Church taught what the Apostles taught , not their personal interpretation up until today 2000 years later

You still have not named one non Catholic member of any christian church from 100 AD to 1500 AD. Was Jesus wrong for those 1500 years? He promised it would not fail and he has kept that promise.

If you have a problem with the Catholic Church take it up with Jesus in your prayers tonite. Tell him how he screwed up
nobody

Morehead, KY

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#53
Apr 22, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
'Jesus' is not the name of the Christ, and everything you read that says so should be suspect. Constantly searching for more truth, the other day I came across an article dealing with first century Jews dropping a letter from the end of His hame to show disrespect for the man, which lead to the development of the change of name in Greek that came to be further changed to 'Jesus' through the years. I'm not going to pretend that I know the mind of God to judge others unsaved for not using the right 'Name', and trust that God does uphold His word higher than His Name, but it seems everyone is afraid to call Him by His name? Yehoshua or Y'shua would be better, or even if we transliterate the name into English - there is no way to arrive at 'Jesus' without using the name the disrespectful and unbelieving Jews gave to Him later.
It was an eye-opening article....
But do you care?? Most people like to be called by their name and not some disrespectful slang word instead....?
HaMashiach Yeshua is considered to be Jesus Christ by this site and in a paper I used to get back in the nineties from messianic Jews.
In this link which has nothing to do with that paper they do not consider it to be pagan.
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d...
I don't know enough about it but it seems if anything with the name Jesus is suspect then the bible would have to be included in that wouldn't it? I just visited your site and I see the word Jesus an awful lot, NKJV I believe. I believe being baptized in Jesus name is correct and because of the way it happened with me it would be really hard to convince me it was invalid. I don't know in this state of anyone that invokes the name Yeshua when they baptize. It all depends on whether it is a valid translation I guess. I don't see how Yeshua would be wrong and it may be more correct but the way Christianity is in this world they have taught Jesus as the same and the vast majority would not recognize Yeshua. I seriously doubt if the majority of preachers would know the name. But if God does make it a difference then there are an awful big group of people who thought they were Christians that were not simply because of ignorance. Probably everyone for a 1700 or 1800 year period. I pray that is not the case for my sake and theirs.
nobody

Morehead, KY

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#54
Apr 22, 2013
 
I am not saying you are right or wrong on this because you are dealing with actual names, I don't think or haven't heard of anyone that says they are incorrect. I do see different names though and even you listed two spellings ( Yehoshua or Y'shua) and I have saw other spellings in a web search. I just don't know. I would hate to think the translators were wrong all these years.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#55
Apr 22, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
That is why Jesus did not teach sola scriptura.
Jesus made over 100 references to scripture.

"Have you not read" Matthew 12:3
"have you not read in the Law" Matthew 12:5
"Did you never read in the Scriptures" Matthew 21:42

Jesus expected the scriptures to be understood by the average man, even his enemies:

"What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" (Luke 10:26)
Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?(Mark 12:24)
But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.(Matthew 22:29)
"The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him" There were any oral traditions as to who the messiah was. All were wrong! Some thought he was merely a king, some merely a prophet, some merely a priest!(Matthew 26:24)
"What then is this that is written:'The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone'?(Luke 20:17)
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me (John 5:39)
"How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?" (Matthew 26:54)

Jesus never taught anyone to depend on the religious interpretations of even His disciples. He wanted people to know the truth themselves.

From bible.ca
Mike Peterson

United States

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#56
Apr 23, 2013
 
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus made over 100 references to scripture.
"Have you not read" Matthew 12:3
"have you not read in the Law" Matthew 12:5
"Did you never read in the Scriptures" Matthew 21:42
Jesus expected the scriptures to be understood by the average man, even his enemies:
"What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" (Luke 10:26)
Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?(Mark 12:24)
But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.(Matthew 22:29)

"The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him" There were any oral traditions as to who the messiah was. All were wrong! Some thought he was merely a king, some merely a prophet, some merely a priest!(Matthew 26:24)
"What then is this that is written:'The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone'?(Luke 20:17)
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me (John 5:39)
"How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?" (Matthew 26:54)
Jesus never taught anyone to depend on the religious interpretations of even His disciples. He wanted people to know the truth themselves.
From bible.ca
The average man could not read or write until when the printing press was invented in the 1400s so your statement about Jesus wanted the average man to learn by themselves is not very good. s Jesus was not talking about them. He was taking to the Priests of the Jews.

He didn't depend on his disciples to teach? What?

Did Jesus say any writings are the pillar and ground of Truth? Nope. Out of his own mouth, he said the Church is the pillar and ground of truth.

The only scriptures Jesus mentioned was the OT. You can live by that, only, if you want.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#57
Apr 23, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right, salvation is not a joke. That is why Jesus did not teach sola scriptura. That is the joke. He left a Church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth, to teach the 90% of the world who could not read and out of the other 10% maybe a few % could afford a bible.
The Church taught what the Apostles taught , not their personal interpretation up until today 2000 years later
You still have not named one non Catholic member of any christian church from 100 AD to 1500 AD. Was Jesus wrong for those 1500 years? He promised it would not fail and he has kept that promise.
If you have a problem with the Catholic Church take it up with Jesus in your prayers tonite. Tell him how he screwed up
May I suggest you read 'The Great Controversy' and 'From Sabbath to Sunday'? Those who dared to bring the words of our Savior to the people so that they also might understand were a few Christians of note. Do you know who they were? Are you totally unaware of their names - that you bring such charges against the Set-Apart believers of Master Y'shua? Or all those who died as they simply sought to do the will of God when the Popes taught against the once revealed faith? You are exhibiting a profound disregard for those dear brothers in the Lord, as you uphold and condone those who murdered them in the name of God and their Pope.

I'll also invite you to pray. I won't tell Him how He screwed up, but I thank God for those who uphold and also get His word out to as many people as possible, that the purpose for which He sent it will be fulfilled.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#58
Apr 23, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The average man could not read or write until when the printing press was invented in the 1400s so your statement about Jesus wanted the average man to learn by themselves is not very good. s Jesus was not talking about them. He was taking to the Priests of the Jews.
He didn't depend on his disciples to teach? What?
Did Jesus say any writings are the pillar and ground of Truth? Nope. Out of his own mouth, he said the Church is the pillar and ground of truth.
The only scriptures Jesus mentioned was the OT. You can live by that, only, if you want.
'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God'

John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words, and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me."

Jesus said it is about keeping and abiding in His word - not the word of a Pope. The Apostles knew what He taught and God has not left the world without witness of what He taught.

Can you tell us one thing any Pope has said that is needful for the true faith as revealed by the Son of God that is needful for us to hear because the teachings of the Christ and the Twelve who testified of Him were deficient?
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#59
Apr 23, 2013
 
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus made over 100 references to scripture.
"Have you not read" Matthew 12:3
"have you not read in the Law" Matthew 12:5
"Did you never read in the Scriptures" Matthew 21:42
Jesus expected the scriptures to be understood by the average man, even his enemies:
"What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" (Luke 10:26)
Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?(Mark 12:24)
But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.(Matthew 22:29)
"The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him" There were any oral traditions as to who the messiah was. All were wrong! Some thought he was merely a king, some merely a prophet, some merely a priest!(Matthew 26:24)
"What then is this that is written:'The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone'?(Luke 20:17)
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me (John 5:39)
"How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?" (Matthew 26:54)
Jesus never taught anyone to depend on the religious interpretations of even His disciples. He wanted people to know the truth themselves.
From bible.ca
NKJV John 8:12; "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

AENT (Aramaic English New Testament) "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but he will find the light of life for himself."

John 8: 31,32; "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Christians, as disciples of Y'shua, follow Him, not the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests or earthy men called 'Father'. Christains have but one Father - the same Father as Y'shua - the Father in heaven.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#60
Apr 23, 2013
 
Maybe we should think about WHY the average man in the 1400s couldn't read or write. In the first century man apparently didn't have that problem, in the Middle East no less. The Arabs were once the math and science geniuses of the world, until Islam came along and set society back a thousand years. The Jews educated their children, and taught them the law from a young age. What happened to Europe? Why such ignorance for centuries?
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#61
Apr 23, 2013
 
The RCC?

Note the end of this article, that the Eastern Orthodox is about 2000 years old and was founded by Peter and Paul. Just sayin'

http://rt.com/news/orthodox-bishops-abducted-...
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#62
Apr 23, 2013
 

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If you read the Bible, there shouldn't be any doubt that those in Turkey and the east can claim to be as old as Rome. The seven churches in Asia are all in modern Turkey. According to Paul's letter to the Romans, no apostle had been to Rome, but they had been everywhere else. That quote I had the other night said Roman Catholicism couldn't be proven to exist until it separated from the eastern orthodox and other movements.

On a side note, the Jews and Arabs didn't have a printing press either, but they had plenty of knowledge. The Jews had numerous copies of scriptures. I don't think the printing press can be blamed for Europe's ignorance.
Mike Peterson

United States

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#63
Apr 23, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
If you read the Bible, there shouldn't be any doubt that those in Turkey and the east can claim to be as old as Rome. The seven churches in Asia are all in modern Turkey. According to Paul's letter to the Romans, no apostle had been to Rome, but they had been everywhere else. That quote I had the other night said Roman Catholicism couldn't be proven to exist until it separated from the eastern orthodox and other movements.
On a side note, the Jews and Arabs didn't have a printing press either, but they had plenty of knowledge. The Jews had numerous copies of scriptures. I don't think the printing press can be blamed for Europe's ignorance.
I have no idea what you are you talking about here. The Apostles were spread out all over the know world. Peter still had the keys to the Kingdom.

When Constantine move the world's center from to Constantinople, the Eastern Catholic churches grew in prominence and eventually refused to accept the Pope anymore. The Eastern and Orthodox Churches still have the succession from the Apostles and their teaching and worship is basically the same as the RCC. I almost became an Othordox Catholic but had to to with authority that Jesus set up.

What are you talking about knowledge? Show me where the Jews and Arabs could read more than the Europeans.

If you live by a college, go audit a class on Western Civilization and learn that the fall of the Roman empire created the "Dark Age" and the Catholic Church almost single handily preserved education, the sciences and the arts. Most of that were in the monasteries. The monks also produced almost all of the copies of the Bibles by hand for the 1100 years after the Church canonized it in 382.
Mike Peterson

United States

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#64
Apr 23, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
May I suggest you read 'The Great Controversy' and 'From Sabbath to Sunday'? Those who dared to bring the words of our Savior to the people so that they also might understand were a few Christians of note. Do you know who they were? Are you totally unaware of their names - that you bring such charges against the Set-Apart believers of Master Y'shua? Or all those who died as they simply sought to do the will of God when the Popes taught against the once revealed faith? You are exhibiting a profound disregard for those dear brothers in the Lord, as you uphold and condone those who murdered them in the name of God and their Pope.
I'll also invite you to pray. I won't tell Him how He screwed up, but I thank God for those who uphold and also get His word out to as many people as possible, that the purpose for which He sent it will be fulfilled.
The first 29 Popes knew when they were selected to be Pope it meant death. All of these holy men were put to death by the Roman Empire because the Romans knew who were leaders of the Christian religion were. You kill all the leaders and you destroy the Catholic Church. Boy were they wrong. The Roman Empire was imploded and the Catholic Church is still here 2000 years later.

The Church is getting Jesus word all over the world, 1.2 billion strong and growing like crazy in Africa and South America where the good news had been stifled. While she is doing that, she is feeding, clothing, educating and giving Medical care to more people in the World than any other organization that ever existed.

Whatever you do to the least of them , you do to me. God is so proud of the Church he created.

Satan has attacked the Church from within by bad priests, bishops and even a few Popes, from without by invading arrmies and from those protesters that started the reformation. Jesus has protected her from all these evils just like he said he would. It will be here until the end of ages.

Protestantism is devouring itself because of sola scriptura and within a 100 years will not exist as it is. For those believers left it will be the "Bible and Me".
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#65
Apr 24, 2013
 
So now you're prophecying?

You might do a google video search for 'brotherhood of darkness' and watch it.

Ever hear of the 'black pope'?

I know there are many sincere and faith filled Catholics, but we can all see the difference in attendance on Christmas and Ester comparied to other services:-) The vast number are not active.

From what I've heard, you're on your last Pope now.
(according to a prophecy by a Catholic of the 112 Popes to come)

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