Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#870 Aug 30, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
I get all that, but Jesus didn't die for symbolism. That is where Catholicism fails miserably and this has been taken up by the protestant religions.
He also didn't die so that he could "come into our hearts and help us live better". That is a lie of the flesh. The heart is deceitful above all things a desperately wicked. Who can know it.
When you get your flesh completely and totally out of the picture, then you can understand, appreciate, and trust what Christ did for you on that cross. Symbolism only puts the focus back on your "observance" of something, and on the "faithfulness" of someone baptizing you. Who gets the credit and glory in all of this ceremony?
100% complete belief, faith, and trust that Christ died for YOUR sins, was.buried, and resurrected for YOUR justification removes the need for ceremony. That faith and trust should be your testimony each and every day. No bathtub required.
I see your points, but the bible is full of symbols and they are there for a reason. Even Peter teaches this;

1 Pet 3:21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

He says that it is the answer of a good conscience. Of course those who teach baptismal regeneration can't see the difference or prefer the physical things over the spiritual.

Remember this, a new convert needs something that he can, as he gets older, look back on as a point of his faith coming alive. This is why you and I remember our water baptism. It is a good thing not a bad thing unless we begin to worship water baptism as some do...
Dave P

Plummers Landing, KY

#871 Aug 30, 2014
Took me a long time to see baptism is the ANSWER of a good conscience and not the SOURCE of a good conscience toward God.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#872 Aug 30, 2014
Bobby wrote:
Those who believe that water saves cannot accept the fact that the thief on the cross was not water baptized, so they try to explain it away. The same for battlefield conversions.
People who try to use the letter of the law miss the spiritual concept behind spiritual baptism. After all how could the God of the universe live in us and guide us. That is why we are supposed to live and walk by faith and not by sight...
We're supposed to walk by the light of His word, that seeing as He sees things lightens our pathway in the darkness of this age. Part of the Light of God is the Commandments of God, and the Spirit was sent to write them on the heart - not to lead away from them to something else.

As for Luke, I believe Matthew. Matthew said both thieves cursed Yeshua, not that one was saved by saying 'Remember me when you come into your kingdom.' I used to think Luke was just adding details Matthew didn't note, but now I see other passages that lead people away from the truth Yeshua taught in Matthew, so I reject Luke to be a liar, as he also lied and twisted history to favor Paul in Acts. Two peas in a pod in my opinion...
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#873 Aug 30, 2014
Dave P wrote:
Took me a long time to see baptism is the ANSWER of a good conscience and not the SOURCE of a good conscience toward God.
Well said! We respond to the great commission - baptism is the center of life, not the end of the life of a disciple of Yeshua.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#874 Aug 30, 2014
Well, Yeshua is center, but it's in the middle of the final words of our Lord.
William

Montgomery, AL

#875 Aug 31, 2014
Bobby wrote:
Remember this, a new convert needs something that he can, as he gets older, look back on as a point of his faith coming alive. This is why you and I remember our water baptism. It is a good thing not a bad thing unless we begin to worship water baptism as some do.
When I came to the full realization that Christ died for my sins, then I knew that me getting water baptized wasn't the thing to focus on.

The cross is to be the object of remembrance, not the bathtub or the so-called Lord's Supper. It is the only thing that we can boast of.

I've seen baptism turn into an object of boasting. "Well, my family and I all got baptized in the Jordan River when our church group went to Israel last summer!" and "You know Rev. So-and-So baptized me, right? He went to Divinity School at Duke University, after all."

You can see how stupid this gets, pretty quick, and where the actual focus ends up being. Like all works of the flesh, it just gives us an opportinity to boast. God will never permit us to glory in ANYTHING that we could do, because he knows that we will do just that when given the opportunity.
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#876 Aug 31, 2014
William, in my opinion its just as wrong to reject symbols God has given us-like baptism and communion-as it is to worship the symbol and not the reality. Baptism and communion are obviously important or Jesus would have never spoke of both.

Don't reject something God gave us because some folks don't know how to handle the symbolism. If you do, it goes from being their problem to being your problem. They're both Gods will for us regardless of how others handle them.
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#877 Aug 31, 2014
At the last supper Jesus said "do this in remembrance of Me". When we participate in the Lords supper we are remembering and preaching the death of Jesus-the cross.

Why not remember that?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#878 Aug 31, 2014
Dave P wrote:
At the last supper Jesus said "do this in remembrance of Me". When we participate in the Lords supper we are remembering and preaching the death of Jesus-the cross.
Why not remember that?
This morning we had a fantastic sermon titled "white noise". The message was about hearing from God. The white noise is the things going on, in and around our lives. It's like trying to have a conversation with someone at a football game. We are often distracted and can't hear when God speaks.

When God speaks through his word our lives may be so disrupted by the things going on we cannot concentrate on what we read. There is the problem of sin in our lives that can cause us to turn down the volume, so to speak. Often it is because that we are not living a life of obedience that God does not answer when we call.

Hearing and Doing
26If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. 27Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Not my intention to judge others just a short synopsis on the sermon.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#879 Sep 8, 2014
"There is the problem of sin in our lives that can cause us to turn down the volume, so to speak."

You are a low ender. You don't worry about sin. Your ticket is punched I thought?. Why even go to Church. The preacher is not talking to you.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#880 Sep 8, 2014
RCIA is starting at a Church near you. If you hate the Church, go find out what it really teaches so you don't sound so ignorant.

We have 30 signed up at our new parish. BTW we just added a new Christian to the Church this past weekend . Baptism.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#881 Sep 9, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
When I came to the full realization that Christ died for my sins, then I knew that me getting water baptized wasn't the thing to focus on.
The cross is to be the object of remembrance, not the bathtub or the so-called Lord's Supper. It is the only thing that we can boast of.
I've seen baptism turn into an object of boasting. "Well, my family and I all got baptized in the Jordan River when our church group went to Israel last summer!" and "You know Rev. So-and-So baptized me, right? He went to Divinity School at Duke University, after all."
You can see how stupid this gets, pretty quick, and where the actual focus ends up being. Like all works of the flesh, it just gives us an opportinity to boast. God will never permit us to glory in ANYTHING that we could do, because he knows that we will do just that when given the opportunity.
When I got baptized it was the most memorable day of my life - even though I was only 9. How could it be that anyone receiving the promises of God and the gift of His Spirit at the same time could not note the experience as a wonderfully supernatural and spiritual event of their life? And if it was a wonderful and memorable event in the life of another believer, it only serves to show their joy when recalling their baptism. I didn't hear those you spoke of, and perhaps for them it was only an "outward sign of an inward grace" or something like that, but as one who believes the promises of God, as one who has experienced the promises of God - I'm not going to put someone down or think any less of them because of who or where they were baptized. That just seems odd to me.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#882 Sep 9, 2014
For me the most memorable event is the resurrection of Master Yeshua. If He just died on the cross and stayed dead - how would He have made such a difference in the world if He just stayed dead like everyone else - although quite the cruel death on the cross. Baptism symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection to new life, and we enter into that by faith and belief and turn to Him for life that is eternal in full hope of the resurrection of the just and that God is true to His promises and covenants as He is to all His words of life and judgment/precept/promises/comm andments.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#883 Sep 9, 2014
John 14:26, "These things I have spoken to you, while abiding with you. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

Luke 12:12, "for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

Rom. 8:26, "And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;"

Does the Pope live in us????

Does you preacher live in you?

Does your church live in you?

Is it true that Jesus Christ live in you?

Are we being true to a church doctrine/preacher/pope or are we being true to the living word who lives in us?

Do we trust Jesus or is our trust in something else?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#884 Sep 9, 2014
His Spirit leads us:
Matt. 4:1, "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil."

His Spirit Gives life
John 6:63, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life."

We are Filled by his Spirit
Acts 2:4, "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance."

Is Christ in us our hope of Glory???
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#885 Sep 9, 2014
I don't know how long some of you can continue to ignore this basic truth.

We are in Christ and he is in us.

Yet we worry about the name above the door of the church building we meet in!
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#886 Sep 9, 2014
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Yet the catholic church claims that the pope is infallible and without sin. Their hope is in a man and a man made church. They claim that the church can save you.

Catholics admit that their popes became sinless and infallible but were never born without sin.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

We should be looking to Jesus for our righteousness not catholicism!!!

Christ in us is our only hope of glory....
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#887 Sep 9, 2014
I don't get many responses to these messages about Christ in us.

Even Mike knows there is something here that he cannot deal with as a catholic and yet he still chooses his religion over a relationship with his only Savior.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."

I have searched the scripture and I cannot find anywhere that says we are saved by the church or the pope.

Christ in us is our hope of glory- there is no other...
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#888 Sep 9, 2014
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

No pope and no physical church can be our mediator.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#889 Sep 9, 2014
you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 7:11
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood--and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood--why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

And despite all the scripture and the priesthood of the believer, catholics look more like the Jewish priesthood than the new covenant.

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