Will Baptist Be In Heaven?
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William

Birmingham, AL

#181 Apr 9, 2014
Trying to con people to observe laws and commandments that were never meant for them in the first place is an old and guilt-laden trick that continues to this very day.

It has it's roots in the misplaced efforts of a lifelong Jew (Peter) to get the heathen Gentiles to observe the rituals and laws of the Jews. It did not end well for poor old Peter, who is now no longer head of the church at Jerusalem. James, the half-brother of Jesus, has taken over that assembly and Peter now defers to him.

Galatians 2:11-14

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? Peter was sent to these Antioch Gentiles BY James, and then he got scared of these very same people (the circumcision) when they came up there after him.

So much for Peter being "in charge" of anything now. James (and not the James that wrote the epistle) had taken over the Jerusalem church, and it had now become apostate just like Judaism had become leading up to John the Baptist and Jesus' earthly ministry. Religion had crept in, just like it always does.

Galatians 2 is a wealth of information for someone who is interested in what The Bible actually SAYS, and not what religion says.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#182 Apr 9, 2014
King James Bible
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
I gave the Shakespearean language version that you love written for the King of England.
Timothy is wealth of information for somebody who wants to know what the Bible says too.
In fact, the whole Bible is the inerrant written words of God. it is pretty important.
It is profitable for teaching.
pillar of truth

Charlottesville, VA

#183 Apr 9, 2014
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#184 Apr 9, 2014
Look at the section on the kingdom God spoke of - when giving the law to Israel and the sojourners, then in the prophecies, then in the gospel call as preached by John the Baptist and then Jesus, and finally in Revelation.

"This gospel of the Kingdom"

Also the prophecy that the Spirit is sent to write Gods instructions on our hearts.

We cannot live in His kingdom and reject His word or the purpose the Spirit of Truth was given - there is no such thing as "living by the Spirit" and "setting aside the Commandments of God". This is the key point Paul erred on.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#185 Apr 10, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you determine which of Jesus' words you follow. I bet that protester in you uses SS to do it.
You quote some and ignore the rest... You are Jesus Words, that I believe, Only.
Sounds like you will always be a protester of the Church Jesus started.
No, may I never protest against the Church Jesus started - if I did that I'd be like Paul! How do I determine which of Jesus' words to follow? That is the question, isn't it. By the time the RCC was becoming active to set the canon of NT Scripture there were some books that were well accepted by some that others absolutely denied to be true. Jerome had a giant task in seeking to know the answer to this very question. One test books had to pass was evidence of being written by who they claimed to be written by. My own take is that for the task Jerome had, he did an exceptional job. Not perfect, but a giant leap from where they were at his time in history.
There are many ways to know which words of Jesus to follow - if we are honest with ourselves and common sense and are genuinely looking to know which words we are to follow, Jesus promised that those who seek will find and those who knock, the doors will be opened, just as He did that whoever keeps His commandments that He and the Father will live in them, and additionally that we pass from estranged humanity to becoming sons of God and then on to those He considers not just disciples, but friends of God and His Christ.
If Jesus chose certain men to be chosen eye-witnesses, and that these men of His choosing would be the ones to have divinely inspired recall of all He had first taught them, and that their task was to make more disciples of Him and teach them to continue in keeping the same things He first taught them - that is the primary limiting factor of who He said we should hear about what His teachings actually are - just as He gave them, just as He was commanded to do so by the Father in Heaven.
Jerome weeded out many books, but I've come to honest believe we should take the task to the next level and weed out the books that teach against what God has declared true. This seems good and fair and in full keeping with the Spirit of Truth, the Word of God, and the message of the Hope of the Kingdom of God, and the priesthood of true and faithful souls who love Jesus and His words more than their own life or Church fellowship - "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you" and "to him who has, more will be given, to him who has not, even that which he has will be taken away".
Our modern Scribes are those who publish Bibles, and I think they've been extremely lazy and complacent. As a result, much evil has been done in the name of God - trouble is that none of it was actually what God said to do!!!!!
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#186 Apr 10, 2014
The Spirit of Truth witnesses to both the words of God and the words of Jesus that are in accord with the words of God and teach us what the will of God truly is. Don't we now have reason to believe the DSS contain the same books that were extant as Scripture in Jesus' day? There's a long established history for the OT, isn't there? Should we be able to also tell which authors spoke the truth of what Jesus taught?
If we can't know, then how do you know?
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#187 Apr 10, 2014
pillar of truth wrote:
http://carm.org/is-the-roman-c atholic-church-the-pillar-of-t ruth
http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp155.htm
Nothing like quoting Paul to prove the truth?;-)

What's the matter? You don't know what Jesus said the truth is?
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#188 Apr 10, 2014
William wrote:
Trying to con people to observe laws and commandments that were never meant for them in the first place is an old and guilt-laden trick that continues to this very day.
It has it's roots in the misplaced efforts of a lifelong Jew (Peter) to get the heathen Gentiles to observe the rituals and laws of the Jews. It did not end well for poor old Peter, who is now no longer head of the church at Jerusalem. James, the half-brother of Jesus, has taken over that assembly and Peter now defers to him.
Galatians 2:11-14
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? Peter was sent to these Antioch Gentiles BY James, and then he got scared of these very same people (the circumcision) when they came up there after him.
So much for Peter being "in charge" of anything now. James (and not the James that wrote the epistle) had taken over the Jerusalem church, and it had now become apostate just like Judaism had become leading up to John the Baptist and Jesus' earthly ministry. Religion had crept in, just like it always does.
Galatians 2 is a wealth of information for someone who is interested in what The Bible actually SAYS, and not what religion says.
Just where did Peter direct Gentiles to keep laws and commandments never meant for non-Jews to observe? Can you name of few?

What about the fact that the Law was given to Israel and the multitude of nations that left Egypt with them, and that this same Law made distinction between both and that the multitude of nations (Gentiles) were to keep the open ended laws that were not limited to the physical children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Or the other fact is that God gave them to bless them and so they could witness to the rest of the world of His goodness and greatness?

Paul didn't know Jesus and God from Ronald McDonald - as evidenced by his false teachings - such as his statements regarding the Holy Word of God as a curse and death, rather than a way to be blessed of God and do His will and be His people indeed.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#189 Apr 10, 2014
PAUL walked not uprightly according to the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is why the Church at Jerusalem rejected him, that he failed to prove the charges against him false, that the Church at Ephesus also tried him and found him to be a liar - witnessed to by Luke and Paul himself - II Tim. 4. All of Asia abandoned Paul at his first defense of his perverted gospel. Jesus commended them for putting him and his gospel on trial.(Rev. 2)

Just because Paul's books are in the Bible doesn't make them truth. God is not mocked.

Jesus taught: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

Paul said forget what God and Jesus said and listen to me, I've got a revelation better than anything Jesus or His apostles, or even what fallen angels gave Moses as a curse to Israel.

It isn't hard to know the truth if you realize who you should hear and stop listening to liars who speak from their own heart, rather than abiding in the truth taught by Jesus Christ.
Jaybird

Axton, VA

#190 Apr 10, 2014
2 Peter 3:15,16 reads, "And account that the longsuffering of our Master is salvation; even as "our beloved brother Paul" also according to the wisdom given unto "him hath written unto you:; As also in all"his epistles", speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Galatians 2:7-10: 7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised 8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), 9 and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 They only asked us to remember the poor the very thing I also was eager to do

Read this and enjoy, you might just learn something:

http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/Paul.html
Jaybird

Axton, VA

#191 Apr 10, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
PAUL walked not uprightly according to the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is why the Church at Jerusalem rejected him, that he failed to prove the charges against him false, that the Church at Ephesus also tried him and found him to be a liar - witnessed to by Luke and Paul himself - II Tim. 4. All of Asia abandoned Paul at his first defense of his perverted gospel. Jesus commended them for putting him and his gospel on trial.(Rev. 2)
Just because Paul's books are in the Bible doesn't make them truth. God is not mocked.
Jesus taught: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."
Paul said forget what God and Jesus said and listen to me, I've got a revelation better than anything Jesus or His apostles, or even what fallen angels gave Moses as a curse to Israel.
It isn't hard to know the truth if you realize who you should hear and stop listening to liars who speak from their own heart, rather than abiding in the truth taught by Jesus Christ.
For the record, I will not further engage in this conversation about Paul, for it is weak and foolish. If you wish to expel Paul from the Bible, that is your doing, not mine. Luke wrote about Paul as did the apostle Peter and it will be them I believe over you. So, if you wish to proceed, I will discuss the Bible but not this foolishness you are promoting.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#192 Apr 10, 2014
Jaybird wrote:
<quoted text>
For the record, I will not further engage in this conversation about Paul, for it is weak and foolish. If you wish to expel Paul from the Bible, that is your doing, not mine. Luke wrote about Paul as did the apostle Peter and it will be them I believe over you. So, if you wish to proceed, I will discuss the Bible but not this foolishness you are promoting.
Does the Bible give you the authority to discuss what it means?

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#193 Apr 10, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing like quoting Paul to prove the truth?;-)
What's the matter? You don't know what Jesus said the truth is?
John 8: 51 - 59
51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death."

How do you decide which ones you keep or don't. He said to hear his Church, in other words listen and obey.

Is that one you keep?
Jaybird

Axton, VA

#194 Apr 10, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Does the Bible give you the authority to discuss what it means?
Dang it, I forgot to run that by 'the confessing his sins Pope'. My bad.
Jaybird

Axton, VA

#195 Apr 10, 2014
Btw "Mike Peterson", I have no use for your Catholic dogma either and will not give you time nor day on such NONSENSE.

Your fishing in empty waters here. I will not engage any further with you on this subject. You want to talk about BIBLE, then talk. If you want to talk about the RCC, then walk!
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#196 Apr 10, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
John 8: 51 - 59
51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death."
How do you decide which ones you keep or don't. He said to hear his Church, in other words listen and obey.
Is that one you keep?
His Church is His sheepfold. His sheep hear His voice and follow after Him. When He calls they hear and listen. I know which words are actually His because of His prayer in John, that the original disciples with Him at that prayer are the ones God gave divine Holy Spirit inspired recall of all He had taught them. If we can't believe that - why bother?

His Church abides in His word and teaches the same Doctrine and Commandments of God that He taught the original disciples - the chosen witnesses of Jesus Christ.

Was Mark one?
Was Luke there too?
Was Paul there with them?;-)

It's a matter of testimony - whether first hand knowledge, or secondhand hearsay.

Translations records is the following concern, as the Greek does have some issues when compared to the older and more original Aramaic.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#197 Apr 10, 2014
Jaybird wrote:
<quoted text>
For the record, I will not further engage in this conversation about Paul, for it is weak and foolish. If you wish to expel Paul from the Bible, that is your doing, not mine. Luke wrote about Paul as did the apostle Peter and it will be them I believe over you. So, if you wish to proceed, I will discuss the Bible but not this foolishness you are promoting.
I'm discussing what Jesus taught - which to you is nonsense because you believe Paul instead.

Do yourself and favor and do leave the conversation you are unable to fathom.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#198 Apr 10, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
His Church is His sheepfold. His sheep hear His voice and follow after Him. When He calls they hear and listen. I know which words are actually His because of His prayer in John, that the original disciples with Him at that prayer are the ones God gave divine Holy Spirit inspired recall of all He had taught them. If we can't believe that - why bother?
His Church abides in His word and teaches the same Doctrine and Commandments of God that He taught the original disciples - the chosen witnesses of Jesus Christ.
Was Mark one?
Was Luke there too?
Was Paul there with them?;-)
It's a matter of testimony - whether first hand knowledge, or secondhand hearsay.
Translations records is the following concern, as the Greek does have some issues when compared to the older and more original Aramaic.
In the sheepfold that you are a member, who is your authority here on Earth. God has always had an human authority on Earth.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#199 Apr 10, 2014
God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the word of God and the word of Jesus Christ.

He is the authority. We are but sheep. Jesus is the Teacher, we are but students. He said all authority in heaven and earth are His.

Can you show me where He gave His authority on earth to any man?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#200 May 13, 2014

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