The Early Church Fathers

Posted in the Bassett Forum

Comments

Showing posts 1 - 20 of97
< prev page
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1
May 24, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

The early Church Fathers fall into three basic categories: Apostolic Fathers, ante-Nicene Church Fathers, and post-Nicene Church Fathers.

The Apostolic Church Fathers were contemporaries of the apostles and were probably taught by them, carrying on the tradition and teaching of the apostles themselves as their direct successors. Examples of Apostolic Fathers would be Clement and Polycarp.

The ante-Nicene Fathers were those who came after the apostolic fathers and before the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325. Such individuals as Irenaeus and Justin Martyr are ante-Nicene fathers.

The post-Nicene church fathers are such noted men as Augustine, John Chrysostom, Jerome, and Eusebius.

Although there were always a few dissenters, for the first thousand years of the Church there was a broad consensus among the Fathers on all the basic tenets of the faith, from Baptism to the Eucharist to the role of Tradition.

As the most respected pastors and theologians of their day, the opinion of the Fathers set the standard for what is considered biblical Christian teaching.

Although there were always a few dissenters, for the first thousand years of the Church there was a broad consensus among the Fathers on all the basic tenets of the faith, from Baptism to the Eucharist to the role of Tradition.

While many people debate theology, few take the time to see what the early Church has said on different theological topics. While the Church Fathers were not infallible, their widespread consensus on issues should give weight to the theological positions they advanced.

Despite the fact that their writings are all available for free online, many people have not taken the time to educate themselves on what the Church Fathers have taught.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#2
May 24, 2013
 

Judged:

2

2

1

"Fathers", when Jesus said to call no man 'Father', as we have but one "Father" in heaven? Such a disregard for His word speaks for itself to testify they follow not Jesus, but another?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#3
May 24, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Barnsweb wrote:
"Fathers", when Jesus said to call no man 'Father', as we have but one "Father" in heaven? Such a disregard for His word speaks for itself to testify they follow not Jesus, but another?
Actually I was having the same thoughts. Question for all-does the RCC convert people to Christ, or do they make converts to the Catholic Church? Maybe we should ask if the Catholic Church is the dreaded "c" word, as in cult?
William

Jacksons Gap, AL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#4
May 24, 2013
 
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#5
May 25, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
"Fathers", when Jesus said to call no man 'Father', as we have but one "Father" in heaven? Such a disregard for His word speaks for itself to testify they follow not Jesus, but another?
Do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus so you have can life in you.

You disregard Jesus His word speaks for itself. Why do you leave Jesus like the rest in John 6:66.

Wait I know. SS. Believe what you want from a book when Jesus said his Church has the Truth.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I was having the same thoughts. Question for all-does the RCC convert people to Christ, or do they make converts to the Catholic Church? Maybe we should ask if the Catholic Church is the dreaded "c" word, as in cult?
What great Christian writer do you like to read other than the Bible?

Christ is head of the Church. Whoever listens to his Church listens to him. The CC is the only Church not started by a man.

Dave: How do you know what books belong in the Bible? Why doesn't The Epistle of Barnabas belong in there.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#7
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus so you have can life in you.
You disregard Jesus His word speaks for itself. Why do you leave Jesus like the rest in John 6:66.
Wait I know. SS. Believe what you want from a book when Jesus said his Church has the Truth.
Mike, please don't assume I have views of a Protestant or Catholic - the views I foster are that Jesus came to open up the very Word of God that we might be able to see both Him, and what He created us to be and do. He is also the bread of life that came down from heaven - His words from our Father were explicit to say we are to be disciples of Him - hearers and doers indeed.

Jesus said,'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except by Me.'(Barnsweb paraphrase)

Each of us must face Him one day to give account. It's about our personal relationship to Him and our faithfulness - we won't get there on the apron-strings of which Church we belonged to - just look to Annanius and Saphira and ponder that a bit.

If the RCC were the true Church they would be feeding the flock from the word of God, not a transubstantiated wafer in the shape of the Sun-God disk, or putting up huge phallic symbols around the Vatacan. CC is nothing but paganism in a veil of pomp and ceremony and continuation of Zeus and Istar worship, as they promote their members ignorance of the true gospel of Jesus Christ...the Original Jesus.
William

Birmingham, AL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#8
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

More from "the early church fathers."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-f%C3%A9

I suppose this was part of the so-called "great commission?"
William

Birmingham, AL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#9
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

"Anyone who was guilty or knew of someone who was guilty was urged to confess. If they were approached and charged they were then presumed guilty. Since the suspects were not allowed to look at the evidence against them, they could only assume the worst. A defendant at the trial did not know what witnesses would be called against him."

Or, "Alex, what do Catholicism, Communism, and the Bush/Obama/Guantanamo Bay prison all have in common?"

:)
Dave P

Lexington, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#10
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

William wrote:
"Anyone who was guilty or knew of someone who was guilty was urged to confess. If they were approached and charged they were then presumed guilty. Since the suspects were not allowed to look at the evidence against them, they could only assume the worst. A defendant at the trial did not know what witnesses would be called against him."
Or, "Alex, what do Catholicism, Communism, and the Bush/Obama/Guantanamo Bay prison all have in common?"
:)
Correct. You have control of the board William. Next category?
William

Birmingham, AL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#11
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

"Next category?"

SATAN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Mike Peterson

Magee, MS

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#12
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

William wrote:
"Next category?"
SATAN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
The church has been attacked by sinners from within , invading armies, and protesters for 2000 years and Jesus has protected her from Satan just like he promised.

Prots continue to split up the word of God.
William

Birmingham, AL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#13
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

"The church has been attacked by sinners from within, invading armies, and protesters for 2000 years and Jesus has protected her from Satan just like he promised."

His church, which he is the head of, he most certainly has.

But your church is as corrupt today as the day it was invented. By man.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#14
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

William wrote:
"The church has been attacked by sinners from within, invading armies, and protesters for 2000 years and Jesus has protected her from Satan just like he promised."
His church, which he is the head of, he most certainly has.
But your church is as corrupt today as the day it was invented. By man.
Are you saying that Jesus created a corrupt Church? Wow.

Jesus created a Church. Do you agree?

There was only 1 Churvh, Catholic until 1520. Can you agree to that?

Then Jesus created the Catholic Church. Therefore you say Jesus is corrupt. That's getting close to blasphemy

Name the man who started the Catholic Church.
William

Birmingham, AL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15
May 25, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

"Are you saying that Jesus created a corrupt Church? Wow."

Jesus created his church, of which he is the head. Not some clown from Argentina. So no, he did not create a corrupt church.

"Jesus created a Church. Do you agree?"

He most certainly did. And it's not yours.

"There was only 1 Church, Catholic until 1520. Can you agree to that?"

If you are talking about churches made by men, then no. The Catholic church was invented by man and used by the Roman Empire.

"Then Jesus created the Catholic Church. Therefore you say Jesus is corrupt. That's getting close to blasphemy."

Jesus didn't create the Catholic church. He didn't put Peter (a lifelong Jew, btw) in charge of the Catholic church, and there is no direction from either Peter or Paul regarding the so-called "primacy" of Peter, apostolic succession, veneration of Mary, praying to dead saints, the use of rosary beads, or a hundred other things that your church holds dear. Whenever confronted about these things, your church ALWAYS reverts back to "well, our tradition guides us in these matters." Which is yet another way of saying that men created your church.

"Name the man who started the Catholic Church."

Constantine. Around AD 313.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#16
May 26, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

William wrote:
"Are you saying that Jesus created a corrupt Church? Wow."
Jesus created his church, of which he is the head. Not some clown from Argentina. So no, he did not create a corrupt church.
"Jesus created a Church. Do you agree?"
He most certainly did. And it's not yours.
"There was only 1 Church, Catholic until 1520. Can you agree to that?"
If you are talking about churches made by men, then no. The Catholic church was invented by man and used by the Roman Empire.
"Then Jesus created the Catholic Church. Therefore you say Jesus is corrupt. That's getting close to blasphemy."
Jesus didn't create the Catholic church. He didn't put Peter (a lifelong Jew, btw) in charge of the Catholic church, and there is no direction from either Peter or Paul regarding the so-called "primacy" of Peter, apostolic succession, veneration of Mary, praying to dead saints, the use of rosary beads, or a hundred other things that your church holds dear. Whenever confronted about these things, your church ALWAYS reverts back to "well, our tradition guides us in these matters." Which is yet another way of saying that men created your church.
"Name the man who started the Catholic Church."
Constantine. Around AD 313.
Constantine? He was not even a Christian until his deathbed conversion.

The Church was on its 29th Pope when Constantine legalized Christianity.

Your History knowledge is very immature in development. You are a Christian and have no clue of Christian history. It is tradition handed down by your family and pastors.

Name one non Catholic church leader from 100 AD to 1520 AD. Name one other Christian Church in that time.

Oh, this is William, the Church started the day you read the Bible. I forgot.
William

Decatur, GA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#17
May 26, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

You are going to remember the things that I have written here for all eternity, Mike.

One way or the other.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#18
May 26, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

St Ignatius on the Eucharist. He was taught by St John.

You want ignore the Church fathers but say what you write comes from the HS.

St. Ignatius of Antioch was a pagan by birth and a Syrian. He became the third bishop of Antioch and may be considered an apostolic Father in the sense that he heard the Apostle John preach. About 110 A.D. he was sentenced to a martyr's death in the arena by the Emperor Trajan, who also put Pope Clement to death. On the almost 1000 mile journey to Rome from Antioch, Syria, the third largest city of the Empire, Ignatius wrote seven letters, which are his only surviving letters. They are addressed to Christian communities he presided over as bishop. He speaks of the Eucharistic mystery in mystical terms saying, "Therefore arm yourselves with gentleness, renew yourselves in faith, which is the Flesh of the Lord, and in charity, which is the Blood of Jesus Christ." His most famous passage says:

I am Godís grain, and I am being ground by the teeth of wild beasts in order that I may be found [to be] pure bread for Christ. My love has been crucified, and there is in me no fire of material love, but rather a living water, speaking in me and saying within me,ĎCome to the Father.í I take no pleasure in corruptible food or in the delights of this life. I want the bread of God,which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who is the seed of David; and for drink I want his Blood which is incorruptible love.

His reference to "bread of God" is an allusion to John 6: 33, where Jesus says, "It is not Moses who has given you bread from heaven [manna], but it is my Father who gives you the Bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." The Eucharist was a model for the Christ centered approach of Ignatius since he sees the it as an example of the "undying love of Christ as he feeds us with his Flesh and Blood." There is no mistaking his tone in his letter to the Church at Smyrna as he speaks of the Gnostics who had a disdain for material reality:

Charity is no concern to them, nor are widows and orphans or the oppressed ...They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in his goodness, the Father raised ...

Like St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 10: 17, he saw the Eucharistic Body of our Lord as the unifying force in the Church. He
wrote the Philadelphians:

Be careful to observe [only] one Eucharist; for there is only one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and one cup of union with his Blood, one altar of sacrifice, as [there is] one bishop with the presbyters and my fellow-servants the deacons.

Another unforgettable reference is when he urges Christians to assemble in common and obey the bishop, "breaking one bread that is the medicine of immortality and the antidote against dying that offers life for all in Jesus Christ." These beautiful words sum up Jesusí own teaching in John 6 and St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 11. Notice also that he refers to the Eucharist as a sacrifice as did the authors of the Didache. Eucharistic theology seems almost complete in St. Ignatius.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#19
May 26, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Other Early Church Father on the Eucharist.

St. Irenaeus who heard the preaching of Bishop Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostle John, writing a famous tract Against Heresies between 180 and 190 A.D. is the first to provide explicit mention of the change that takes place in the bread and wine when they become the Eucharist. The earthly creation (bread and wine) are raised to a heavenly dignity after they "receive the word of God" [at the epiclesisof the Mass or the invocation to the Holy Spirit] and become the food and drink of Christians. So how then can we doubt that, "Our bodies, receiving the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible but have the hope of resurrection to eternal life."

St. Hilary of Poitiers (died in 368 A.D.) in his his De Trinitate said that the Eucharist made the Church Christís Body and allows us to become one with the Father. St. Cyril of Jerusalem in his Mystagogic Catechesis, a series of sermons dated to the late 4th century, is the first to make clear that the Real Presence is made possible by a changing of the substance of the elements, though the word "transubstantiation" was not yet used. He wrote:

In the Old Covenant there were loaves of proposition [the bread of the presence], but they being of the Old Covenant, have come to an end. In the New Covenant there is a heavenly bread and a cup of salvation that sanctify the body and soul. For as the bread exists for the body, so the Word is in harmony with the soul. Therefore, do not consider them as bare bread and wine; for according to the declaration of the Master, they are Body and Blood. If even the senses suggest this to you [viz. that they are only bread and wine], let faith reassure you. Do not judge the reality by taste but, having full assurance from faith, realize that you have been judged worthy of the Body and Blood of Christ.

Writing in 350 A.D. Theodore of Mospsuestia, in Homily XV wrote of communion in the hand, "do not approach with hands extended and fingers open wide. Rather make of your left hand a throne for your right as it is about to receive your King, and receive the Body of Christ in the fold of your hand, responding ĎAmen.í.... Take care that you do not even lose one piece of that which is more precious than gold or precious stones."

St. Gregory of Nyssa wrote The Great Catechism in the 370's and is important in our survey because he endeavors to explain the mystery of how Christ can remain whole while being distributed to thousands of Christians with an analogy. The union of the divine and the human in Christ sanctified his humanity. When he consumed bread and wine they to were united with His divine person. So now in the Eucharist, he assimilates the bread and the wine into Himself and then feed us what has become Himself through the Word. He said this occurred at the Consecration.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#20
May 26, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Notice also that he refers to the Eucharist as a sacrifice as did the authors of the Didache. Eucharistic theology seems almost complete in St. Ignatius.

Be careful to observe [only] one Eucharist; for there is only one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and one cup of union with his Blood, one altar of sacrifice, as [there is] one bishop with the presbyters and my fellow-servants the deacons.

Jesus' death was a once for all time sacrifice. To say that each time the Lord's table is spread He is sacrificed again is nothing short of blasphemous. For someone to have listened to an apostle, he must not have paid much attention.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Showing posts 1 - 20 of97
< prev page
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••
•••
•••

Bassett Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••

Bassett People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Bassett News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Bassett
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••