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101 - 120 of 204 Comments Last updated May 23, 2013

Since: May 10

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#101
Apr 25, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The first one is easy. Jesus picked him. Its in the Bible.
Remember from the beginning the Church has kept great records and many still remain by being hidden from the Romans until Constantine
As to the earliest ages, Ferraris (op. cit. infra) says that St. Peter himself constituted a senate for the Roman Church, consisting of twenty-four priests and deacons. These were the councillors of the Bishop of Rome and the electors of his successors. This statement is drawn from a canon in the "Corpus Juris Canonici" (can. "Si Petrus", caus. 8, Q. 1). Historians and canonists, however, generally hold that the Roman bishopric was filled on its vacancy in the same manner as other bishoprics, that is, the election of the new pope was made by the neighbouring bishops and the clergy and faithful of Rome. Nevertheless, some maintain that the naming of the successor of St. Peter was restricted to the Roman clergy, and that the people were admitted to a part in the elections only after the time of Sylvester I (fourth century).
Please show the text and the explination of Peter being picked by Christ. Also show the response of the others and how they follow the RCC examples of how to elevate a pope.

Since: May 10

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#102
Apr 25, 2013
 
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
Romans 15:4
Romans 15:4

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

So do you preach instruction as this claims or do you as Bobby says never preach the OT scriptures except to prove MDR issues?

Good passage.

Now get the truth out. I bet you preach OT our group does.

Since: Jan 10

Royse City

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#103
Apr 25, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>That is History:

Heath: I want you to name 1 COC member from 100 AD to 1800 AD. YOu dont have to name leaders of any COC , just 1 name of 1 member.
Luke 8:11

www.roysecitycoc.org
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#104
Apr 25, 2013
 

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JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>The bible claims him as an apostle not a pope and he fails the qualifications the RCC has for a pope.
The Bible shows the Primacy of Peter so many times it is so obvious.
How many examples to do you need. He didn't fail Jesus' qualifications as the leader of his Church.
I think I will follow Jesus.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#105
Apr 25, 2013
 
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
Luke 8:11
www.roysecitycoc.org
I know it is not a fair question because the answer is there is not one COC member from 100 AD to 1800.

I have asked about 100 COC members with not 1 name given.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#106
Apr 25, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible shows the Primacy of Peter so many times it is so obvious.
How many examples to do you need. He didn't fail Jesus' qualifications as the leader of his Church.
I think I will follow Jesus.
LOL. That whole post is crazy wrong. How do you know the Bible shows the primacy of Peter?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#107
Apr 25, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>The bible claims him as an apostle not a pope and he fails the qualifications the RCC has for a pope.
What does the early Christ. write about the primacy of Peter?

Clement of Alexandria

"[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly g.asped and understood their meaning. And what does he say?‘Behold, we have left all and have followed you’[(Who Is the Rich Man That Is Saved? 21:3–5 [A.D. 200]).



Tertullian

"For though you think that heaven is still shut up, remember that the Lord left the keys of it to Peter here, and through him to the Church, which keys everyone will carry with him if he has been questioned and made a confession [of faith]" (Antidote Against the Scorpion 10 [A.D. 211]).



The Letter of Clement to James

"Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect" (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D. 221]).



Origen

"[I]f we were to attend carefully to the Gospels, we should also find, in relation to those things which seem to be common to Peter ... a great difference and a preeminence in the things [Jesus] said to Peter, compared with the second class [of apostles]. For it is no small difference that Peter received the keys not of one heaven but of more, and in order that whatsoever things he binds on earth may be bound not in one heaven but in them all, as compared with the many who bind on earth and loose on earth, so that these things are bound and loosed not in [all] the heavens, as in the case of Peter, but in one only; for they do not reach so high a stage with power as Peter to bind and loose in all the heavens" (Commentary on Matthew 13:31 [A.D. 248]).



Cyprian of Carthage

"The Lord says to Peter:‘I say to you,’ he says,‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’... On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

Cyril of Jerusalem

"The Lord is loving toward men, swift to pardon but slow to punish. Let no man despair of his own salvation. Peter, the first and foremost of the apostles, denied the Lord three times before a little servant girl, but he repented and wept bitterly" (Catechetical Lectures 2:19 [A.D. 350]).

"[Simon Magus] so deceived the city of Rome that Claudius erected a statue of him.... While the error was extending itself, Peter and Paul arrived, a noble pair and the rulers of the Church, and they set the error aright....[T]hey launched the weapon of their like-mindedness in prayer against the Magus, and struck him down to earth. It was marvelous enough, and yet no marvel at all, for Peter was there—he that carries about the keys of heaven [Matt. 16:19]" (ibid., 6:14).





J
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#108
Apr 25, 2013
 
On a side note, this is exactly why I have always urged caution using "early church fathers" to justify our modern positions. The non instrumentals quote these very men to attempt to prove that using instruments in worship is sin. Now then, to convince a Catholic that he is in error, you have to convince him that these early church fathers-the ones you quote to prove your non instrumental position-are in fact wrong and in error themselves.

Since: Jul 11

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#109
Apr 25, 2013
 

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New Guy wrote:
On a side note, this is exactly why I have always urged caution using "early church fathers" to justify our modern positions. The non instrumentals quote these very men to attempt to prove that using instruments in worship is sin. Now then, to convince a Catholic that he is in error, you have to convince him that these early church fathers-the ones you quote to prove your non instrumental position-are in fact wrong and in error themselves.
Exactly! Once we allow so-called Scholars and information outside of the Bible, it opens the doors and windows for every flea coming and going. We can’t condemn someone when they appeal to outside sources then run to outside sources when it suits our position. We MUST strictly use the Bible as our source of truth or we fall prey to every wind of doctrine.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

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#110
Apr 25, 2013
 
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly! Once we allow so-called Scholars and information outside of the Bible, it opens the doors and windows for every flea coming and going. We can’t condemn someone when they appeal to outside sources then run to outside sources when it suits our position. We MUST strictly use the Bible as our source of truth or we fall prey to every wind of doctrine.
Should we burn our dictionaries and concordances and other study tools then? That was the argument before that JC got upset about. Lol.

Seriously though, dictionaries and language helps are good tools. They do have to be used carefully, because the language can be manipulated to make a text say whatever you want it to. Words can be abused-I think the guy at the piney website absolutely violated the meaning of some words to make his points, whatever they were. Most of the words we run across in scripture can usually be defined by the Bible itself, from the text and context. We don't have to lean on them to learn the scriptures or establish a position.

But these early church fathers are the very men who brought catholicism into the world. Why would a non catholic use them to support a position when we agree on nothing else with them?

Since: Jul 11

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#111
Apr 25, 2013
 
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Should we burn our dictionaries and concordances and other study tools then?
Nope. We should weigh them against what the Bible says and not let them dictate what the Bible says. No where in the Bible do I find that the word Psalm changed to a Capella but sources outside of the Bible say the word took on a new meaning. Many RCC teachings go outside of the Bible thus they are to be rejected. If JC or anyone defends the "church fathers" on points about music then the RCC has just as much right to appeal to their "church fathers".
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#112
Apr 25, 2013
 
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Should we burn our dictionaries and concordances and other study tools then? That was the argument before that JC got upset about. Lol.
Seriously though, dictionaries and language helps are good tools. They do have to be used carefully, because the language can be manipulated to make a text say whatever you want it to. Words can be abused-I think the guy at the piney website absolutely violated the meaning of some words to make his points, whatever they were. Most of the words we run across in scripture can usually be defined by the Bible itself, from the text and context. We don't have to lean on them to learn the scriptures or establish a position.
But these early church fathers are the very men who brought catholicism into the world. Why would a non catholic use them to support a position when we agree on nothing else with them?
I tossed my church of Christ commentaries long ago. Of course we now have the internet, how do we toss that. Innovations often hurt is in one way and help us in another.

Since: Jan 10

Royse City

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#113
Apr 29, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>I tossed my church of Christ commentaries long ago. Of course we now have the internet, how do we toss that. Innovations often hurt is in one way and help us in another.
You tossed your salvation away too.

www.roysecitycoc.org
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#114
Apr 29, 2013
 

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Is this another work you're adding to salvation, Heath-72? That you have to own a set of church of Christ commentaries? Or, are you just trying to turn a clever phrase?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#115
Apr 29, 2013
 
Does someone lose their salvation simply for leaving the coc? BCV for that? 2 Opinions 3:16? I thought it was for turning their back on Jesus. The two aren't necessarily the same thing. How can someone be a "wayward brother" if they are lost?

Is Bobby bell bound because he doesn't drink the Kool aid anymore?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#116
Apr 29, 2013
 
Hell bound. Dumb phone strikes again. Long night guys.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#117
Apr 30, 2013
 
Hey Dave and New guy, I thought you was the same person and just changed your name. I see that each has a different IP address.

Sometimes I get annoyed not knowing who I am talking to. Could you clear that up? Randy, you still out there?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#118
Apr 30, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
Hey Dave and New guy, I thought you was the same person and just changed your name. I see that each has a different IP address.
Sometimes I get annoyed not knowing who I am talking to. Could you clear that up? Randy, you still out there?
Bobby, I am the same person. My smartphone kicks me off of Topix if I make very many posts, and I switch back to my laptop. One my username is Dave P, on the laptop its still the old New Guy name. Sorry bout the confusion, but technology doesn't work very well for me sometimes. I will change the laptop name next time I get on it.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#119
Apr 30, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Bobby, I am the same person. My smartphone kicks me off of Topix if I make very many posts, and I switch back to my laptop. One my username is Dave P, on the laptop its still the old New Guy name. Sorry bout the confusion, but technology doesn't work very well for me sometimes. I will change the laptop name next time I get on it.
I used a different name once (it was a expression of what I believe not actually a name). I had a difficult time getting rid of it because it was in the computer memory banks and I had to physically change it bobby every time I posted. Registering with topix would solve that, but I have no intention of doing that.

I have been on other discussion groups where our real name and email was required and displayed for all to see. People who posted on those sites were more respectable than here on topix.

btw, I purposefully never use my iphone to post here. I am becoming concerned with social media and it's security/privacy.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#120
Apr 30, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I used a different name once (it was a expression of what I believe not actually a name). I had a difficult time getting rid of it because it was in the computer memory banks and I had to physically change it bobby every time I posted. Registering with topix would solve that, but I have no intention of doing that.
I have been on other discussion groups where our real name and email was required and displayed for all to see. People who posted on those sites were more respectable than here on topix.
btw, I purposefully never use my iphone to post here. I am becoming concerned with social media and it's security/privacy.
Was your other name 'Baptism is symbolism'? I recall seeing that one in older threads. I did register one name with topix, but its an aggravation really. As for security, I'm not sure any of us have that anymore. We are all probably right wing extremists, religious fanatics and domestic terrorists. I'd say our names are already on some govt. list somewhere. No matter.

I would like certain others to answer their charges. Far as I am concerned, you never turned away from Jesus, but left the coc-and those two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. From what I read, I can't blame you. We believe differently-but who doesn't?

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