William

Birmingham, AL

#542 Sep 30, 2013
And those three references to Paul's gospel show up in the 1611 KJV as well as the 1899 Catholic bible, so we know that both camps acknowledge that Paul did indeed get a gospel.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#543 Sep 30, 2013
William wrote:
And those three references to Paul's gospel show up in the 1611 KJV as well as the 1899 Catholic bible, so we know that both camps acknowledge that Paul did indeed get a gospel.
A professor at Sproulist University just blew apart the whole Catholic thing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-m...
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#544 Sep 30, 2013
William wrote:
And those three references to Paul's gospel show up in the 1611 KJV as well as the 1899 Catholic bible, so we know that both camps acknowledge that Paul did indeed get a gospel.
Paul's gospel is the 'Good News'. The same gospel I received. It is no different than the 4 written Gospels that was accepted by the Church as inspired over the many Gospels that were not accepted as inspired but still important writings.

It seems fairly certain that he never met Christ during his life here on earth. Yet, he surely knew some of the details about Christís life here on earth from the apostles and from others in the emerging Church.
William

Birmingham, AL

#545 Sep 30, 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Aslan

Former "evangelical" Christian now a Muslim, this guy is.

And he is a professor of "religions" so it's not surprising to see him marginalize his customer-students regarding Jesus. Gotta have that fair-and-balanced viewpoint or else he'll never get tenure.
William

Birmingham, AL

#546 Sep 30, 2013
"Paul's gospel is the 'Good News'. The same gospel I received. It is no different than the 4 written Gospels that was accepted by the Church as inspired over the many Gospels that were not accepted as inspired but still important writings."

Well, the gospel that Paul received is different in one regard from the four written gospels at the start of the New Testament: nowhere in those four gospels does Jesus tell anyone (like he did Paul) that he died for their sins, was buried, and resurrected for their justification. Quite the opposite, actually.

The so-called "great commission" features none of this key intel.
William

Birmingham, AL

#547 Sep 30, 2013
The "great commission". I don't see where he told these men what he gave to Paul. I don't see it in Acts 2 either.

Matthew 28:18-20
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.

19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Mark 16:14-20

14 At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again.

15 And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues.

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay their hands upon the sick, and they shall recover.

19 And the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God.

20 But they going forth preached everywhere: the Lord working withal, and confirming the word with signs that followed.

Luke 24:44-48

44 And he said to them: These are the words which I spoke to you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then he opened their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.

46 And he said to them: Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise again from the dead, the third day:

47 And that penance and remission of sins should be preached in his name, unto all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And you are witnesses of these things.
William

Birmingham, AL

#548 Sep 30, 2013
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

1 Now I make known unto you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you have received, and wherein you stand;

2 By which also you are saved, if you hold fast after what manner I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all, which I also received: how that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures:

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures:

That Christ died for our sins is not found in the great commission, nor did he instruct the disciples to go and preach that. It just isn't there, and it's not there in Acts 2 either.
William

Birmingham, AL

#549 Sep 30, 2013
Go R-E-A-D your Bible, folks.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#550 Sep 30, 2013
Why do you think Jesus hung around for 40 days after the resurrection?

Christ stayed on earth forty days after His resurrection to show that He was truly risen from the dead, and to instruct His Apostles.

Paul did not have "secret" knowledge apart from the 11.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#551 Sep 30, 2013
The Bible says not everything Jesus did was recorded.

The facts remain, that Jesus spent 3 years, day and night, with his Apostles; and a fairly literate person can read the NT is about 12 or 13 hours.

So do you think Jesus taught everything in the equivalent of 3 months of Sunday sermons?

John 21:

24
It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them,* and we know that his testimony is true.n
25
There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.
William

Birmingham, AL

#552 Sep 30, 2013
"Paul did not have "secret" knowledge apart from the 11."

He records that he was given the revelation of a mystery, hid in God from before the foundation of the world.

If The C-in-C gave the 11 clear marching orders, then why did he have to go and get another apostle? One that "was not sent to baptize"? And was Paul "outside the will" of the great commission when he said that?

The 11 were sent to baptize as part of what they were sent to do. Paul was NOT sent to baptize as part of what he was sent to do.

Weird, huh?
William

Birmingham, AL

#553 Sep 30, 2013
"Christ stayed on earth forty days after His resurrection to show that He was truly risen from the dead, and to instruct His Apostles."

He certainly did.

But he never told Peter and the disciples that he died for their sins, or the sins of anyone else. That's a very important item for him to have left out, isn't it?

He did tell Paul that, later on, when he revealed it to him. Paul then had to explain it to Peter, James, and John because they did not know it, but agreed to it and shook hands on it with Paul, as Galatians 2 outlines.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#554 Sep 30, 2013
"The 11 were sent to baptize as part of what they were sent to do. Paul was NOT sent to baptize as part of what he was sent to do.

Weird, huh?"

Very weird !!!

He did anyway, didn't he?

Plus by this time there was 12 again. Peter replaced Judas.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#555 Sep 30, 2013
William wrote:
"Christ stayed on earth forty days after His resurrection to show that He was truly risen from the dead, and to instruct His Apostles."
He certainly did.
But he never told Peter and the disciples that he died for their sins, or the sins of anyone else. That's a very important item for him to have left out, isn't it?
He did tell Paul that, later on, when he revealed it to him. Paul then had to explain it to Peter, James, and John because they did not know it, but agreed to it and shook hands on it with Paul, as Galatians 2 outlines.
Come on... Do you really believe this? Sola Scriptura,
babyyyyyy...

A beautiful way of saying Jesus died for our sins, throwing in works too, which is necessary for salvation.

1 Peter
17
Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each oneís works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning,
18
realizing that you were ransomed from your futile conduct, handed on by your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold
19
but with the precious blood of Christ as of a spotless unblemished lamb.
William

Cusseta, GA

#556 Sep 30, 2013
Weird.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#557 Sep 30, 2013
William wrote:
Weird.
What's weird are sub-amateur theologians debating issues in AD 2013 which were settled centuries ago. What historically has come out of such discussions is yet another prot denomination!
William

Cusseta, GA

#558 Sep 30, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
What's weird are sub-amateur theologians debating issues in AD 2013 which were settled centuries ago. What historically has come out of such discussions is yet another prot denomination!
Well, it seems odd to me that a man like Paul would even have to come along at all. Especially since Jesus tapped 11 guys that he had been with constantly for 3+ years and then handed them a clear direction to go do something. Then this other dude shows up, not having been around when the disciples were being taught by Jesus. Then Peter, James, and John shake hands with him and agree to not do what Jesus told them to do at the great commission.

They went to the circumcision, while Paul went to the uncircumcision. So much for Peter and them going to "all nations" once that happened.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#559 Sep 30, 2013
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it seems odd to me that a man like Paul would even have to come along at all. Especially since Jesus tapped 11 guys that he had been with constantly for 3+ years and then handed them a clear direction to go do something. Then this other dude shows up, not having been around when the disciples were being taught by Jesus. Then Peter, James, and John shake hands with him and agree to not do what Jesus told them to do at the great commission.
They went to the circumcision, while Paul went to the uncircumcision. So much for Peter and them going to "all nations" once that happened.
It seems odd that Jesus never mentioned a Bible especially if your salvation depended on your interpretation of said Bible.

He had 3 years to come up with that one.
William

Birmingham, AL

#560 Sep 30, 2013
"It seems odd that Jesus never mentioned a Bible especially if your salvation depended on your interpretation of said Bible.

He had 3 years to come up with that one."

He sure did. Then he has to go and get another apostle that wasn't even around when he was with the other 12 to go and do something that he never told the 12 about at any point during his time with them.

Weird.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#561 Sep 30, 2013
William wrote:
"It seems odd that Jesus never mentioned a Bible especially if your salvation depended on your interpretation of said Bible.
He had 3 years to come up with that one."
He sure did. Then he has to go and get another apostle that wasn't even around when he was with the other 12 to go and do something that he never told the 12 about at any point during his time with them.
Weird.
All I know is that we've got the body and you don't.

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