The Primacy of Peter
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

#502 Jun 24, 2013
Good Protestant morning Mike. Glad to see you are your normal, cheerful, Catholic self.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#503 Jun 24, 2013
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
Good Protestant morning Mike. Glad to see you are your normal, cheerful, Catholic self.
Thank you. I am doing extremely well today even though this job is interfering with my personal life.

God is good. Received the Eucharist yesterday. I found out that I have I am doing well with my cancer so I can continue to take care of my wife who has early onset dementia.

Just a few crosses we all have to carry. Mine are a lot easier than some.

Gives me more time to tell you protesters, don't wait too long to find the Truth.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Espoo, Finland

#504 Jun 24, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. I am doing extremely well today even though this job is interfering with my personal life.
God is good. Received the Eucharist yesterday. I found out that I have I am doing well with my cancer so I can continue to take care of my wife who has early onset dementia.
Just a few crosses we all have to carry. Mine are a lot easier than some.
Gives me more time to tell you protesters, don't wait too long to find the Truth.
I wish you and your family the best of health. We will keep you busy, no doubt.

P.S. I am not really the Pope.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#505 Jun 24, 2013
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>I wish you and your family the best of health. We will keep you busy, no doubt.
P.S. I am not really the Pope.
You are your own pope if you interpret the Bible yourself.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#506 Jun 24, 2013
Do catholics believe these verses?

Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21,“I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#507 Jun 24, 2013
Do catholics believe these verses?

Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."

Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."

Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."

Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#508 Jun 24, 2013
Better question, does the pope believe those verses? If he believed them so would the catholics.This is what happens when we place our faith in men.

The last apostle-John left us these words:

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Believest thou this?

"and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:26
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#509 Jun 24, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Better question, does the pope believe those verses? If he believed them so would the catholics.This is what happens when we place our faith in men.
The last apostle-John left us these words:
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
Believest thou this?
"and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:26
You can reprint the entire Bible if you want, and of course the answer is yes. It is a Catholic book.

The Church doesn't believe what your interpretation is.

Also once again , the Bible is This AND That, not This OR That

I believe these too because they are in the Bible do you?

2 Thessalonians 2:15
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."

1 Peter 3:21
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

John 20:22-23
"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them,'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.'"

John 6:53-58, 66-67
"So Jesus said to them,'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.' After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. Jesus said to the twelve,'Will you also go away?'"

Corinthians 11:27
"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord."

James 5:14-15
"Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."

Colossians 1:24
"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh and I complete what is lacking in Christ's affliction for the sake of his body, that is , his Church."

James 2:24
"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#510 Jun 24, 2013
Mike give an an example in the scripture where anyone ate the actual body of Christ and drank his blood-it ain't there. The reason is because communion is a symbol of the death burial and resurrection of Christ. Have you literally shared in his death also? There is no scripture which says that the communion elements become literally Christ's blood and body-it just ain't there. I refuse to believe it just because a mere man decrees it.

No scripture mentioning a pope either. I would still reject the teaching if catholics stopped calling him a pope and started calling him an apostle.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#511 Jun 24, 2013
Mike says:the Bible is This AND That, not This OR That

I believe these too because they are in the Bible do you?

Do you mean you actually believe this:Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Morehead, KY

#512 Jun 24, 2013
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>I wish you and your family the best of health. We will keep you busy, no doubt.
P.S. I am not really the Pope.
If I am going to be judged before God and I will, I want it to be for what I believe the word God gave us says. Why should I allow myself to be judged for what another man thinks it means? Especially since that man has shown himself to be just another man as I am?

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#513 Jun 24, 2013
In every human government, business, club, and organization there is a chairman or CEO or president or chief executive or chairman of the board or dictator or king or emperor. The buck has to stop somewhere. Someone has to have the authority to make a final and binding decision. So it is with the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches and even the Church of England. It is the Bishop of a Diocese who has final authority over his geographic area. He can ordain and assign priests and staff, excommunicate, confirm, teach, bless, issue Imprimaturs, control finances and all of the diocese's property is owned in his name. And he doesn't have to ask anyone's permission to do it. Why is this?

It is because of Apostolic Secession. It is through the Bishops that authority is transmitted and preserved and it has been so through the centuries. In the rare instance a Bishop violates his Office, he can be removed and even excommunicated by the Bishop of Rome, the representative of Christ on earth, where the buck really stops and by whose authority Bishops are appointed and ordained. When all the Bishops come together in a world wide Council their decisions concerning faith and morals are infallible...witness the 27 Books of the New Testament.

So what has happened in churches where there is no final authority? Chaos is putting it mildly... 30,000 and growing competing opinions of what does the Bible really say and of Christianity itself.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#514 Jun 24, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Mike says:the Bible is This AND That, not This OR That
I believe these too because they are in the Bible do you?
Do you mean you actually believe this:Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Sure the Church does.

The Council of Trent stressed: "[N]one of those things which precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification; for if it is by grace, it is not now by works; otherwise, as the Apostle [Paul] says, grace is no more grace" (Decree on Justification 8, citing Rom. 11:6).

But God promised a reward if we do works that please him and we will judged by our works.

And of course faith without works is dead.

The Bible is That/AND

Romans 2:
6who will repay everyone according to his works:*7
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works

,8but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

f9
Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek.
10
g But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek.

11* There is no partiality with God.

Galations 6:

6 One who is being instructed in the word should share all good things with his instructor.*
7
Make no mistake: God is not mocked, for a person will reap only what he sows,
8
because the one who sows for his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows for the spirit will reap eternal life from the spirit.f
9
Let us not grow tired of doing good, for in due time we shall reap our harvest, if we do not give up.g
10
So then, while we have the opportunity, let us do good to all,h but especially to those who belong to the family of the faith.*

And

Romans 2:5-8 - God will repay each man according to his works

2 Corinthians 11:15 - recompense accord to what one did in their body (their end will correspond to their deeds)

Colossians 3:24-25 - will receive due payment for whatever you do

1 Peter 1:17 - God judges impartially accordingly to one's works

Revelation 20:12-13 - dead judged according to their deeds
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#515 Jun 24, 2013
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>If I am going to be judged before God and I will, I want it to be for what I believe the word God gave us says. Why should I allow myself to be judged for what another man thinks it means? Especially since that man has shown himself to be just another man as I am?
So you will be your own Church and Pope, since the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, and Peter was given the Keys to the Kingdom.

You are first to admit it to me at least. That is ground zero of SS.

That is what all Protestants believe now though, especially the low church ones that have no worship of God in their Sunday meetings, just a few songs and a man talking in a barren building.

The Anglicans, Presb. Lutherans, Episc., and Methodists have kept some aspect of worship, although false, in their services and church buildings.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#516 Jun 24, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Mike give an an example in the scripture where anyone ate the actual body of Christ and drank his blood-it ain't there. The reason is because communion is a symbol of the death burial and resurrection of Christ. Have you literally shared in his death also? There is no scripture which says that the communion elements become literally Christ's blood and body-it just ain't there. I refuse to believe it just because a mere man decrees it.
No scripture mentioning a pope either. I would still reject the teaching if catholics stopped calling him a pope and started calling him an apostle.
No symbol mentioned in my Bible. flesh, body and blood, all over the place.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

France

#517 Jun 24, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
In every human government, business, club, and organization there is a chairman or CEO or president or chief executive or chairman of the board or dictator or king or emperor. The buck has to stop somewhere. Someone has to have the authority to make a final and binding decision. So it is with the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches and even the Church of England. It is the Bishop of a Diocese who has final authority over his geographic area. He can ordain and assign priests and staff, excommunicate, confirm, teach, bless, issue Imprimaturs, control finances and all of the diocese's property is owned in his name. And he doesn't have to ask anyone's permission to do it. Why is this?
It is because of Apostolic Secession. It is through the Bishops that authority is transmitted and preserved and it has been so through the centuries. In the rare instance a Bishop violates his Office, he can be removed and even excommunicated by the Bishop of Rome, the representative of Christ on earth, where the buck really stops and by whose authority Bishops are appointed and ordained. When all the Bishops come together in a world wide Council their decisions concerning faith and morals are infallible...witness the 27 Books of the New Testament.
So what has happened in churches where there is no final authority? Chaos is putting it mildly... 30,000 and growing competing opinions of what does the Bible really say and of Christianity itself.
Every organization has a head and there is a final authority. The question is who is the head you will follow. I choose that authority to be Jesus. As far as chaos goes in the church the Catholics certainly have their share.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#518 Jun 24, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
In every human government, business, club, and organization there is a chairman or CEO or president or chief executive or chairman of the board or dictator or king or emperor. The buck has to stop somewhere. Someone has to have the authority to make a final and binding decision. So it is with the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches and even the Church of England. It is the Bishop of a Diocese who has final authority over his geographic area. He can ordain and assign priests and staff, excommunicate, confirm, teach, bless, issue Imprimaturs, control finances and all of the diocese's property is owned in his name. And he doesn't have to ask anyone's permission to do it. Why is this?
It is because of Apostolic Secession. It is through the Bishops that authority is transmitted and preserved and it has been so through the centuries. In the rare instance a Bishop violates his Office, he can be removed and even excommunicated by the Bishop of Rome, the representative of Christ on earth, where the buck really stops and by whose authority Bishops are appointed and ordained. When all the Bishops come together in a world wide Council their decisions concerning faith and morals are infallible...witness the 27 Books of the New Testament.
So what has happened in churches where there is no final authority? Chaos is putting it mildly... 30,000 and growing competing opinions of what does the Bible really say and of Christianity itself.
what is wrong with the written word having the final authority?

2 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

When Christ returns, will you say Lord don't forget my many works?

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#519 Jun 24, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
No symbol mentioned in my Bible. flesh, body and blood, all over the place.
Have you been born again?

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#520 Jun 24, 2013
I guess I should put this a different way. Catholics believe in the born again facts but probably do not believe a person can be born again spiritually until he is finished with this life and purgatory.

The difference is christians believe we are saved now. Catholics cannot say that with any confidence.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#521 Jun 24, 2013
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>Every organization has a head and there is a final authority. The question is who is the head you will follow. I choose that authority to be Jesus. As far as chaos goes in the church the Catholics certainly have their share.
BULL CRAP Does Jesus tell you how or where to build a church? Does Jesus tell you what brand of grape juice to buy? Does Jesus tell you whether to be a Baptist, Methodist, or Presbyterian? Does He tell you what kind of Baptist to be? Does He tell you what kind of Methodist to be? Does He tell you what kind of Presbyterian to be? Does He tell you what kind of clothing to wear to church? Does He tell you to ordain women? Does He tell you if you don't like one church just go to another or better yet start your own?

There are currently two major issues in the Catholic Church in the USA from my perspective. One, the demand to return to pre-Vatican II liturgies has eased a bit with the spreading availabilty of the Extraordinary Form. Two, given that Catholic elected officials are forbidden to take public positions contrary to the Faith, several well known Democrats, Pelosi, Kerry and Biden among others support abortion even late term abortion with impunity. A few lesser issues do come to mind such as women serving at the altar, a no-no, and music selections not reflective of the liturgy itself.

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