The Primacy of Peter

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Bible Talk

Paris, France

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#302
Jun 14, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Marriage is a Sacrament. A justice of the peace marriage is not valid in the Church.
Was St Peter still married? His wife was never mentioned. His mother in law was. I like to think she was dead. If not then Jesus told him to leave everything he had and follow him. I will believe Jesus would not tell him to leave his wife.
You would like to think she was dead but here she is. I found her.

1Co 9:5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#303
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Bible Talk wrote:
<quoted text>You would like to think she was dead but here she is. I found her.
1Co 9:5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
So you are saying all of the Apostles were married?

We know women traveled with Jesus and apostles took care of them.

In this passage Paul defends himself and the other apostles against charges from a few disgruntled people. He says he is giving "my defense to those who would examine me" (1 Cor. 9:3). He talks about a situation that applies to himself, not just to the others, yet he certainly was not accompanied by his wife, since he had no wife. We know from other testimony of his that he was unmarried. He does not speak of a theoretical marriage, one that he might someday have but does not yet have. He responds to complaints concerning whichever women actually did accompany him and his male companions. This indicates to me that "wife" is not the right translation here.

The key Greek words in 1 Corinthians 9:5 are "adelphaen gunaika." The first means "sister," and the second can be translated as either "woman" or "wife." This means the phrase translates as "sister woman" or "sister wife," with "sister" indicating not a biological but a spiritual relationship. It would make sense for the apostles to be accompanied by "sister women" who could assist them in ministering to women—for example, at full-immersion baptisms, where a question of modesty could arise, or in cases where it would be more appropriate for a woman to perform a charitable or catechetical function.

This finds support in the Fathers. "Sister woman" is found in Jerome’s Vulgate, and Jerome wrote that "It is clear that [they] must not be seen as wives but, as we have said, as women who assisted [the apostles] with their goods" (Ad. Jovinian I, 26). Clement of Alexandria agreed, saying the women were not the wives of the apostles but were female assistants who could enter the homes of women and could teach them there (Stromata III, 6).

In short, I think Peter was a widower at the time his mother-in-law was healed.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#304
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Marriage is a Sacrament. A justice of the peace marriage is not valid in the Church.
Was St Peter still married? His wife was never mentioned. His mother in law was. I like to think she was dead. If not then Jesus told him to leave everything he had and follow him. I will believe Jesus would not tell him to leave his wife.
Wow, talk about taking liberties with what the scripture does not say just to make it fit with catholism. More evidence that you honor your tradition higher than scripture.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

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#305
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, talk about taking liberties with what the scripture does not say just to make it fit with catholism. More evidence that you honor your tradition higher than scripture.
Bobby I can't do this anymore today. The last post by the cavalry takes the cake. And then the "fathers" supporting the nonsense. LOLLLLLLLLLL. Sister wives-like that TV show I heard about?

Bobby, I can still respond to your posts and others. But I'm hitting the "good day junior" button for the RCC cavalry for today. That post is priceless.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#306
Jun 15, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, talk about taking liberties with what the scripture does not say just to make it fit with catholism. More evidence that you honor your tradition higher than scripture.
"How can I understand unless somebody teaches me"

These were the women Paul were referring too. Simple Scripture. Open your eyes.

There were women traveling with them helping them and they were not the wives of the Apostles

These are some other "others" in the verses below

Mary the Mother of God
Martha
Mary the mother of Clopas
Mary the brother of Lazuras
Pricilla

Luke 8:1-3

The Parable of the Sower

8 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#307
Jun 15, 2013
 

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Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Bobby I can't do this anymore today. The last post by the cavalry takes the cake. And then the "fathers" supporting the nonsense. LOLLLLLLLLLL. Sister wives-like that TV show I heard about?
Bobby, I can still respond to your posts and others. But I'm hitting the "good day junior" button for the RCC cavalry for today. That post is priceless.
]

It is priceless to you since you were completely ignorant those scriptures when Paul used the words wives refers to the women in Luke. He wanted some women to help him too.

The words in Greek means sister and wives. I thought you were a Greek scholar?
Bible Talk

Germany

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#308
Jun 15, 2013
 
I am very disappointed in you Mike. The Catholics I am familiar are more honest with the scriptures than you have been. What do your Catholic bibles say?
New American Bible
Do we not have the right to marry a believing woman like the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
New Jerusalem Bible
Have we not every right to eat and drink? And every right to be accompanied by a Christian wife like the other apostles, like the brothers of the Lord and like Cephas?( note on wife) Or "a wife who is a believer". In any case,for the work of attending to their material welfare, married apostles like Cephas(Peter) presumably took their wives.
None of us on here are Greek scholars but Dr. Richard Francis Weymouth is as were many of the translators of the Catholic bibles I listed above. Below by Dr. Weymouth, I think is one of the best translations of this verse.
1Co 9:5 Have we not a right to take with us on our journeys a Christian sister as our wife, as the rest of the Apostles do--and the Lord's brothers and Peter?
I am very disappointed in you. How can we hope to have an intelligent discussion if you revert to these type of tactics?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#309
Jun 15, 2013
 
Bible Talk wrote:
I am very disappointed in you Mike. The Catholics I am familiar are more honest with the scriptures than you have been. What do your Catholic bibles say?
New American Bible
Do we not have the right to marry a believing woman like the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
New Jerusalem Bible
Have we not every right to eat and drink? And every right to be accompanied by a Christian wife like the other apostles, like the brothers of the Lord and like Cephas?( note on wife) Or "a wife who is a believer". In any case,for the work of attending to their material welfare, married apostles like Cephas(Peter) presumably took their wives.
None of us on here are Greek scholars but Dr. Richard Francis Weymouth is as were many of the translators of the Catholic bibles I listed above. Below by Dr. Weymouth, I think is one of the best translations of this verse.
1Co 9:5 Have we not a right to take with us on our journeys a Christian sister as our wife, as the rest of the Apostles do--and the Lord's brothers and Peter?
I am very disappointed in you. How can we hope to have an intelligent discussion if you revert to these type of tactics?
You don't disappoint me. You are a protester. You did not quote the NAB verse right so that is expected.

The key Greek words are adelphaen gunaika..

If you interpret to mean wives like your wife, then you are saying the apostles did not obey Jesus and leave everthing and follow him and that when Peter tells Jesus in Mark we have left everthing to follow you.

Who is lying ? Paul or Peter? Or maybe you think Jesus did not say that.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#310
Jun 15, 2013
 
Bible Talk wrote:
I am very disappointed in you Mike. The Catholics I am familiar are more honest with the scriptures than you have been. What do your Catholic bibles say?
New American Bible
Do we not have the right to marry a believing woman like the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
New Jerusalem Bible
Have we not every right to eat and drink? And every right to be accompanied by a Christian wife like the other apostles, like the brothers of the Lord and like Cephas?( note on wife) Or "a wife who is a believer". In any case,for the work of attending to their material welfare, married apostles like Cephas(Peter) presumably took their wives.
None of us on here are Greek scholars but Dr. Richard Francis Weymouth is as were many of the translators of the Catholic bibles I listed above. Below by Dr. Weymouth, I think is one of the best translations of this verse.
1Co 9:5 Have we not a right to take with us on our journeys a Christian sister as our wife, as the rest of the Apostles do--and the Lord's brothers and Peter?
I am very disappointed in you. How can we hope to have an intelligent discussion if you revert to these type of tactics?
Btw. You see how Paul's says the the apostles and Cephas. This is one of many examples of the primacy of Peter
mola

Olive Hill, KY

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#311
Jun 15, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't disappoint me. You are a protester. You did not quote the NAB verse right so that is expected.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Do we not have the right to marry a believing woman like the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
Bible Talk

Paris, France

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#312
Jun 15, 2013
 
Thanks for correcting. I typed it from my Catholic bible and my eyes do not see what they did 30 years ago even though the bible still says the same thing.
Bible Talk

Paris, France

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#313
Jun 15, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Btw. You see how Paul's says the the apostles and Cephas. This is one of many examples of the primacy of Peter
I suspect this is around the time Peter was leaving the fold to form the Catholic church. Paul and the other apostles seem to be distancing themselves from Peter. Of course Paul eventually challenged Peter openly. When Peter became Pope and wanted everybody to bow unto him the rest of the apostles must have treated him differently. No respect,I guess.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#314
Jun 16, 2013
 
We will never come to agreement with Mike as long as he values his traditions more than scripture. When the scripture does not match his traditions, his thinking is that the scripture must be wrong, so he has to twist it to make it fit.

Besides all of that Mike does not use his own reasoning, none of his arguments are original, they come from catholic sources designed to proselytize. Catholics are not allowed to think for themselves.

Watch the three catholics here give this message negative judgment. That is how I know when I get them riled.
Bible Talk

New York, NY

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#315
Jun 16, 2013
 

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Mike is actually going against the Catholic church when he claims Peter did not have a wife. Scholars of two Catholic bibles teach completely different. Maybe he is becoming a heretic right before our eyes. I wonder if the other Catholics on here go against their bible. They are a very unstable group/
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#316
Jun 16, 2013
 

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Bible Talk wrote:
Mike is actually going against the Catholic church when he claims Peter did not have a wife. Scholars of two Catholic bibles teach completely different. Maybe he is becoming a heretic right before our eyes. I wonder if the other Catholics on here go against their bible. They are a very unstable group/
You are telling an untruth that I said Peter was never married. Protestants are good at making things up.

Of course he was married. The Bible does not lie. He had a mother-in-law that was sick and Jesus healed her.

Did Paul lie about wives or did Peter lie about leaving everything to follow Jesus?

You are saying one did.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#317
Jun 16, 2013
 

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Bobby wrote:
We will never come to agreement with Mike as long as he values his traditions more than scripture. When the scripture does not match his traditions, his thinking is that the scripture must be wrong, so he has to twist it to make it fit.
Besides all of that Mike does not use his own reasoning, none of his arguments are original, they come from catholic sources designed to proselytize. Catholics are not allowed to think for themselves.
Watch the three Catholics here give this message negative judgment. That is how I know when I get them riled.
How can anybody's arguments be original. The Bible is 1100 years old and Catholicism is 2000 years old.

The Apostles left all truth deposited in his Church.

You really must think you are God's chosen one, if you think that what you write on here is original.

Ludicrous.

William

Birmingham, AL

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#318
Jun 16, 2013
 

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"Protestants are good at making things up."

Says the Catholic church, who started and immediately perfected the trend.
Bible Talk

New York, NY

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#319
Jun 16, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are telling an untruth that I said Peter was never married. Protestants are good at making things up.
Of course he was married. The Bible does not lie. He had a mother-in-law that was sick and Jesus healed her.
Did Paul lie about wives or did Peter lie about leaving everything to follow Jesus?
You are saying one did.
I was speaking in the context of our discussion of 1 Cor 9:6 and the unmistakable fact Peter had a living wife that accompanied him. Your desire to believe she died beforehand does not hold water. Your Pope was married. Your requirement of unmarried priests is unbiblical and a manmade tradition. Sorry , that's just the way it is.
Mike Peterson

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#320
Jun 16, 2013
 

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William wrote:
"Protestants are good at making things up."
Says the Catholic church, who started and immediately perfected the trend.
Your main doctrine is SS, which means you are free to make things up.

Name one Protestant from AD 100 to Ad 1500.

Of course you disagree with all other Protestants so your Christian history started what, maybe 30 years ago.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#321
Jun 16, 2013
 

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Bible Talk wrote:
<quoted text>I was speaking in the context of our discussion of 1 Cor 9:6 and the unmistakable fact Peter had a living wife that accompanied him. Your desire to believe she died beforehand does not hold water. Your Pope was married. Your requirement of unmarried priests is unbiblical and a manmade tradition. Sorry , that's just the way it is.
Name Peter's wife. He had one. I am sure he loved her dearly. He left her under Jesus' directions or she died.

Would you leave your wife and follow him if he asked you to?

You pick what happened.

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