The Primacy of Peter

Bobby: Self righteousness is so evident in your messages...

Mike P: Do I blame protestants today? Of course not.
This is what has come from people like you.(Bobby)

Mark: For sure you don't have to worry about making any intellectual arguments!

Bobby is right. Ladies and gentlemen, your RCC evangelistic committee!

Mike Peterson wrote:

<quoted text>
My area has 75 with just Baptist in their name. Non of them are associated with each other.

Don't you find it interesting how much we all agree when debate you? That is no coincidence...

Dave P wrote:

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Perhaps you misunderstand my point, as you misunderstand my attitude when I replied to Mark. I am simply making the point that when you read the scriptures, then see what has happened over the course of 2000 years, I have a conclusion. The early church apostacized and fell away quickly in a general sense. The religious system that grew out of it-Catholicism-is not the same simple faith that Jesus and His disciples left us.
Not denying Catholicism happened. I deny they are the one true church and do not follow the teachings of the Bible. Never have. Jesus made a point to tell the Samaritan woman that these kinds of things were to be done away with by Him. Apparently, man prefers bondage over freedom.
To me and many others here, Catholicism loses credibility stating they are the real Christians and the only ones for so long, and yet the system is nothing like the Bible system. Add in ridiculous doctrines added, immoral behavior by leaders, pomp and ceremony, and other things, you have many totally rejecting it.

Catholicism is the only Christian Church that you cannot point to a man starting it.

When I was Protestant I got painted into a corner too. After having to admit the obvious from history, that the only Christian Church for 1500 years was the Catholic Church, then you must claim it apostatized and the reformers came in to start the real system of Christianity. I did.

To believe that, you must believe that something Jesus started failed when he promised it would't. I couldn't do that

Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517.(Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

After having to admit the obvious from history, that the only Christian Church for 1500 years was the Catholic Church, then you must claim it apostatized and the reformers came in to start the real system of Christianity.

Dave- I do claim the church apostacized. However, I think the real church with real Christians have existed this whole time. The reformers didn't start real Christianity. It was here the whole time, and it wasn't catholicism either.

To believe that, you must believe that something Jesus started failed when he promised it would't.

Dave- no you don't. Jesus' church didn't fail; the RCC just isn't it.

Bobby wrote:

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Don't you find it interesting how much we all agree when debate you? That is no coincidence...

I have got to stop drinking tea while reading your posts! Up my nose yet again!

MarkEden wrote:

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I have got to stop drinking tea while reading your posts! Up my nose yet again!

Be careful, If I keep it up you might choke:-)

Dave P wrote:

After having to admit the obvious from history, that the only Christian Church for 1500 years was the Catholic Church, then you must claim it apostatized and the reformers came in to start the real system of Christianity.
Dave- I do claim the church apostacized. However, I think the real church with real Christians have existed this whole time. The reformers didn't start real Christianity. It was here the whole time, and it wasn't catholicism either.
To believe that, you must believe that something Jesus started failed when he promised it would't.
Dave- no you don't. Jesus' church didn't fail; the RCC just isn't it.

The Real church with the real Christians have existed the whole time?????

So why did the Protestants have to protest the false Church? They couldn't see the secret little Church either I guess, eating the keebler crackers and drinking grape juice for the lords supper in hole in the tree.

And this secret Church created the Bible, I guess.

Could it have been one of these?

The Circumcisers (1st Century)
Gnosticism (1st and 2nd Centuries)
Montanism (Late 2nd Century)
Sabellianism (Early 3rd Century)
Arianism (4th Century)
Pelagianism (5th Century)
Nestorianism (5th Century)
Monophysitism (5th Century)
Iconoclasm (7th and 8th Centuries)
Protestantism (16th Century)
Jansenism (17th Century)

Bobby wrote:

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Don't you find it interesting how much we all agree when debate you? That is no coincidence...

You don't agree on what the Bible means for sure. That's no coincidence either. That's Sola Scriptura.

The Real church with the real Christians have existed the whole time?????

*Yes. There are always some who haven't bowed the knee to Baal. There were some faithful even when the church as an organization apostacized. Jesus said there was some in Sardis who hadn't soiled their garments. Some had though. Sheep and goats, separate the good and bad fish, wheat and tares.

Just because you're in the henhouse doesn't automatically make you a chicken.

So why did the Protestants have to protest the false Church?

*Same reason we do. Because of error.

And this secret Church created the Bible, I guess.
*God created the scriptures. No church did.

They couldn't see the secret little Church either I guess, eating the keebler crackers and drinking grape juice for the lords supper in hole in the tree.

*Do all catholics get to take both the loaf and cup now? Or is it still restricted to loaf only for some?

Dave P wrote:

The Real church with the real Christians have existed the whole time?????
*Yes. There are always some who haven't bowed the knee to Baal. There were some faithful even when the church as an organization apostacized. Jesus said there was some in Sardis who hadn't soiled their garments. Some had though. Sheep and goats, separate the good and bad fish, wheat and tares.
Just because you're in the henhouse doesn't automatically make you a chicken.
So why did the Protestants have to protest the false Church?
*Same reason we do. Because of error.
And this secret Church created the Bible, I guess.
*God created the scriptures. No church did.
They couldn't see the secret little Church either I guess, eating the keebler crackers and drinking grape juice for the lords supper in hole in the tree.
*Do all catholics get to take both the loaf and cup now? Or is it still restricted to loaf only for some?

It is hard to believe that someone who is presented with facts, would not do some research to refute these facts. Everything you have said is what you Want To Believe happened because it messes up your faith life. You are living a lie if you truly believe what you posted.

There was no secret church. There was only 1 Church for 1500 years.

You continue to put your head in the sand on the history of the bible, Gods written word.

When you protest the CC, you protest Jesus. You are telling him he was wrong but creating a church you doesn't agree with you made up, and that Jesus failed doing it.

1 Corinthians 11:27

"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord."

How can you profane a symbol? You have to in unity with his Church like he and his father are to receive the body and blood of Christ.

Dave P wrote:

After having to admit the obvious from history, that the only Christian Church for 1500 years was the Catholic Church, then you must claim it apostatized and the reformers came in to start the real system of Christianity.
Dave- I do claim the church apostacized. However, I think the real church with real Christians have existed this whole time. The reformers didn't start real Christianity. It was here the whole time, and it wasn't catholicism either.
To believe that, you must believe that something Jesus started failed when he promised it would't.
Dave- no you don't. Jesus' church didn't fail; the RCC just isn't it.

I pretty much refused to believe this until Mike came along and confirmed it. His messages are toxic. The true church has never ceased to exist.

Mike Peterson wrote:

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Catholicism is the only Christian Church that you cannot point to a man starting it.

That certainly is a false statement.

Three catholics here but where is Randy?

Bobby wrote:

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I pretty much refused to believe this until Mike came along and confirmed it. His messages are toxic. The true church has never ceased to exist.

Exactly right. You are catching on. The Catholic Church has been always here and will be always here. IT is being protected by God. If it weren't it would have gone away a long time ago.

When was your Bible Church created. 2008?

Bible Talk wrote:

<quoted text>That certainly is a false statement.

Okay, are you a Constantine believer? The Church was on its 29th Pope when Constantine made Catholicism legal.

Everyone of them had been killed by Rome.

Mike has spent his time here trying to say they are not a denomination but clearly there are many different beliefs within the catholic denomination.

Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church

Melkite Greek-Catholic Church

Syro-Malabar Catholic Church

Syro-Malankara Catholic Church

Chaldean Catholic Church

Coptic Catholic Church

Armenian Catholic Church

And many more, some very liberal and some ultra conservative.

I am beginning to connect the dots now. Reminds me of how churches of Christ have been trying to say they are the one true church with no divisions, when it is clear that there are many branches within that denomination.

Mike is blowing smoke, he is just as ignorant as Johnny is about what is the true church. If you listen closely all one true church organizations use the same basic arguments. They all have that one distinctive thing which they believe gives then the status of being that one true church. With the catholics it is man made history-scriptural authority. It is all about exclusion from our club unless you go through our initiation ceremonies/secret rites known only to insiders. The Masonic society comes to mind where people are always looking for ways to rise to the top with their good works. They might be rotten on the inside but they look good on the outside.

Bobby wrote:

Mike has spent his time here trying to say they are not a denomination but clearly there are many different beliefs within the catholic denomination.
Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
Melkite Greek-Catholic Church
Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
Chaldean Catholic Church
Coptic Catholic Church
Armenian Catholic Church
And many more, some very liberal and some ultra conservative.
I am beginning to connect the dots now. Reminds me of how churches of Christ have been trying to say they are the one true church with no divisions, when it is clear that there are many branches within that denomination.
Mike is blowing smoke, he is just as ignorant as Johnny is about what is the true church. If you listen closely all one true church organizations use the same basic arguments. They all have that one distinctive thing which they believe gives then the status of being that one true church. With the catholics it is man made history-scriptural authority. It is all about exclusion from our club unless you go through our initiation ceremonies/secret rites known only to insiders. The Masonic society comes to mind where people are always looking for ways to rise to the top with their good works. They might be rotten on the inside but they look good on the outside.

You just proved my point. The Orthodox which are Catholic, but do not to believe in the succession of Peter. They believe everything else.

They believe in Apostolic succession, the real presence, They venerate Mary. They believe the original protestants are heretics. Their priests and Bishops have unbroken line back to the Apostles.

Their Eucharists are valid and if there is no Catholic Church accessible you are free to attend their mass and receive communion.

The group in my area are small and use the our Church's chapel for their services for free.

I briefly looked at the Orthodox. Their churches and liturgies are beautiful.

With no Authority they split up too.

They are Catholic though. Only Catholicism existed between 32 AD and 1500 AD.

The Popes have been working hard for the last few hundred years to get them back.

Mike Peterson wrote:

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Exactly right. You are catching on. The Catholic Church has been always here and will be always here. IT is being protected by God.

Revelation 17:15-18.
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
15 And he said to me,“The waters that you saw, where the whore is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. 16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the whore; they will make her desolate and naked; they will devour her flesh and burn her up with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

Bobby wrote:

Mike has spent his time here trying to say they are not a denomination but clearly there are many different beliefs within the catholic denomination.
Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
Melkite Greek-Catholic Church
Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
Chaldean Catholic Church
Coptic Catholic Church
Armenian Catholic Church
And many more, some very liberal and some ultra conservative.
I am beginning to connect the dots now. Reminds me of how churches of Christ have been trying to say they are the one true church with no divisions, when it is clear that there are many branches within that denomination.
Mike is blowing smoke, he is just as ignorant as Johnny is about what is the true church. If you listen closely all one true church organizations use the same basic arguments. They all have that one distinctive thing which they believe gives then the status of being that one true church. With the catholics it is man made history-scriptural authority. It is all about exclusion from our club unless you go through our initiation ceremonies/secret rites known only to insiders. The Masonic society comes to mind where people are always looking for ways to rise to the top with their good works. They might be rotten on the inside but they look good on the outside.

This time I was drinking coffee while reading your absurd post and was careful not to laugh. You have provided a list of ethnic and geographical churches in full communion with the Bishop of Rome and the Roman Catholic Church. Many of these trace their origin to the Apostles. You will see them represented wearing their distinctive vestments at all major events at St. Peters in Rome. By the way Catholics are not allowed to be Masons. That is a prot club.

"Only Catholicism existed between 32 AD and 1500 AD."

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA A